Spousal Visa Application - Pakistan

hmmm

thanks sahdi ... i will call thme tomorow inshallah n will request them to book my appointment for 1st week of august ...

thank you once again for your quick reply ..

Hello RM786

has ur wife faxed the documents to you?....what does it say?

plz let us all know....

D_W

Hi Batleykhan, dont worry i will definetly post. You guys are very helpful and will really like to take your advice.

Im still waiting for the fax to come through may another hour or so.

Hiya D_W, Im a british citizen. got married in march took all paperwork with me. I am living at home with parents. Parents wrote a letter to say it was fine for my wife to live at their home. Also we had a housing inspection done to show there was no overcrowding. im self employed so i didnt have no payslips. I also deposited the money myself into the bank. I do Taxi so i get paid cash in hand so how can i prove my pay. Also i need to send this years tax return.

Takecare

RM786 wrote:Hi Batleykhan, dont worry i will definetly post. You guys are very helpful and will really like to take your advice.

Im still waiting for the fax to come through may another hour or so.

Hiya D_W, Im a british citizen. got married in march took all paperwork with me. I am living at home with parents. Parents wrote a letter to say it was fine for my wife to live at their home. Also we had a housing inspection done to show there was no overcrowding. im self employed so i didnt have no payslips. I also deposited the money myself into the bank. I do Taxi so i get paid cash in hand so how can i prove my pay. Also i need to send this years tax return.

Takecare

If you do Taxi you must have an Accountant go to your Accountant and ask him copy of your tax return coz last tax year ends 06 April 09. That’s not a big problem so dont worry....

Hi Lolfine,

Yea thats what i will do but theres one problem its my first year in self employment and i have to declare my insurance and my car as expense on my tax return will this be a problem?

Takecare.

OK GUYS IVE GOT THE REFUSAL NOTICE IT SAYS:


You have submitted a letter from your father in law as evidence of accomadation in the UK. You have not provided any evidence to indicate that mortgage commitments are being met. ([/b]I THINK A LETTER FROM THE MORTGAGE COMPANY WOULD BE GOOD FOR PROOF???)[/b]. I am not satisfied that this accomadation is available to you as claimed or that is it secure. Therefore on the balance of probability i am not satisfied that you will be adequately accommadated in the UK without recourse to public funds. Paragraph 281 (iv) of HC395.

You state that your sponsor will maintain and accommodate you in the UK. However, you have failed to provide satisfactory evidence of this claim. your sponsor works as a self- employed mini cab driver and he claims to earn £850 per month (net). I SAID I EARNT £1200.00 MONTHLY I DONT KNOW WHERE £850 CAME FROM???. He has submitted a letter from his accountants. However, the accountants themselves have not verified or prepared accounts. As a consequence this letter does not substantiate your sponsors claimed income. The Bank statements submitted for your sponsor show cash deposits but the source of these funds is not substantiated. JUST TO ASK YOU GUYS IF I GET CASH IN HAND AS A TAXI DRIVER HOW AM I MEANT TO PUT MONEY IN THE BANK OBVIOUSLY CASH DEPOSITS????. Your sponsor has no source of income outside of his work as a mini cab driver. He receives no income from friends and family. WHY WOULD I HAVE INCOME FROM FRIENDS AND FAMILY??. I an therefore not satisfied that you will be adequately maintained and accommodated in th UK without additional recourse to public funds. Patragraph 281 (iv) (v) of HC395

RM786 wrote:Hi Lolfine,

Yea thats what i will do but theres one problem its my first year in self employment and i have to declare my insurance and my car as expense on my tax return will this be a problem?

Takecare.

Hi RM786,

First of all I’ll tell that I am a professional Accountant and work for a very big Group in UK. Anyhow Car is not your expense its your Capital and your accountant will do depreciation calculation on it that will be your expense yes Insurance is your expense this will not be a problem as for as you show sufficient Income in the return that not usually Taxi driver do Sorry but that’s the fact and nothing wrong in it.

Also get a letter from your Accountant stated that I am confirming that MR. RM786 is my client and I know him from last xx years. His yearly income is £xx,xxx (which will be included tax).

Should you have any query or need further information please do not hesitant to contact me.

Regards,

Hi RM786

I do hope the best of luck for you.....do not give up....and when appealing try not to make the same mistakes again.

From the information you have provieded, I will TRY to point out the mistakes you made in your visa application and why the visa officer has refused your wifes visa.

1) Accomodation: I think the visa officer wants to see an accomodation provided by you....not your parents. In all your paper work should have shown that you own the property (morgage or tenant). Otherwise they suspected that eventually you will be claiming some sort of housing benefit or other benefits etc....and your wife may become a burden on the UK benefits scheme.........

2) Bank Statement: I think the visa officer could not find any regular income.....there appeared no proof. It was just plain cash coming in....but from where?.....he needed to see where this income was coming from.....he could not find any employement income...and if its the self-employed income...then he could not identify that either. So he assumed that you can not financially support your wife with out a proper regular income.

The above is my interpretation of what might be stated in the offical visa rejection letter.

Can anyone else support my theory?........

However i do hope the best for you RM786....

keep us all updated on what the actual result letter stated...

D_W

RM786, I'm in a similar situation regarding my wifes visa as i'm a self employed window cleaner and also get paid cash. Though you say you had a letter from your accountant the ECO has said they have not prepared actual accounts therefore you have no documentational (is this a word, or have I just made it up?!) evidence of your earnings. This would be my guess anyway but i'm sure someone far more in the know than myself will confirm this (or not)

rm786 did you include mortgage statements, i included my mums last 3 years statement

im worried now also because i also just got a letter of consent from my mum that my wife can live in the house and in it she states that i contribute £200 a month. i hope its enough I should have included a tenancy agrement..i had house inspction report

Hi there.

2036789, dont worry if you've got the 3 years mortgage statement it should be enough and also it says you contribute £200.00 but with me i had none of that. i should of put more time into my preparation.

Hi philwafc, yes we are pretty much in the same boat. im going to appeal and give Give my accounts overview for tax year 08-09. Also provide p60 if possible.

Batleykhan i pretty much look forward to your take on the refusal notice and anyone else for that matter would be appreciated.

Takecare

OK GUYS IVE GOT THE REFUSAL NOTICE IT SAYS:

You have submitted a letter from your father in law as evidence of accomadation in the UK. You have not provided any evidence to indicate that mortgage commitments are being met. ([/b]I THINK A LETTER FROM THE MORTGAGE COMPANY WOULD BE GOOD FOR PROOF???)[/b]. I am not satisfied that this accomadation is available to you as claimed or that is it secure. Therefore on the balance of probability i am not satisfied that you will be adequately accommadated in the UK without recourse to public funds. Paragraph 281 (iv) of HC395.

This means that you have not submitted a letter from your father in law stating that you can stay with them. However you probaly have not produced evidence that that your father in law owns the property and if its mortgaged, that you haven't provided evidence from your father in law to say that how much is the monthly repayment, and that the mortgage repayments are made regularly and are up to date.

You can do this simply by asking your father in law to go to the bank where the title deeds of the property are kept and ask him to ask the bank to give you a copy of the title deed ( usually 2/3 pages) as well as letter conforming that whatever monthly payments he pays are up to date. The bank will give him these. He might have to pay a few quids for this info, but he must get it for your sake.

Once you have done that, you need a typed letter from him to say that you and your spouse can live with them until such a time that you are financially well of to buy or rent your own property.

Remember there is no harm in living with your in law. You do not have to have your own house whether you have purchased it or rented it. The Immigration rules allow you get this help and support from friends and family. What is doesn't allow is financial help from family or friends.

One thing to remember is that you can only show accomadadtion with your in laws or friends PROVIDING THERE IS SUFFICIENT ROOM IN THE HOUSE WHERE YOU INTEND TO LIVE.

In order to prove this you will need to get a letter from your local Council or estate agents, who will come and check the house, measure the rooms and divide it by the number of people living there. If there are more people than rooms it will be deemed to be overcrowded, and your visa will be refused. Did you send this report at the time of your spouse application. If you didnt then you will need one now with your appeal..

You and your wife must have one room in the house exclusively to yourselves.

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Now to the next point

ou state that your sponsor will maintain and accommodate you in the UK. However, you have failed to provide satisfactory evidence of this claim. your sponsor works as a self- employed mini cab driver and he claims to earn £850 per month (net). I SAID I EARNT £1200.00 MONTHLY I DONT KNOW WHERE £850 CAME FROM???. He has submitted a letter from his accountants. However, the accountants themselves have not verified or prepared accounts. As a consequence this letter does not substantiate your sponsors claimed income. The Bank statements submitted for your sponsor show cash deposits but the source of these funds is not substantiated. JUST TO ASK YOU GUYS IF I GET CASH IN HAND AS A TAXI DRIVER HOW AM I MEANT TO PUT MONEY IN THE BANK OBVIOUSLY CASH DEPOSITS????. Your sponsor has no source of income outside of his work as a mini cab driver. He receives no income from friends and family. WHY WOULD I HAVE INCOME FROM FRIENDS AND FAMILY??. I an therefore not satisfied that you will be adequately maintained and accommodated in th UK without additional recourse to public funds. Patragraph 281 (iv) (v) of HC395

What they are saying here is that you earn £850 per month net( after tax and insurance from your gross wage of £1200 per month)but you have not got your accountant to verify that amount ( probally because your accountant has not made up a proper detailed account of your yearly earnings as to how you arrive at what you earn) thus they do not believe that the bank statement you have provided where you have deposited cash, are as a result of the income that you have earned from being a taxi driver. These cash deposits you claim are put into your bank, could be amounts of money you could have borrowed of friends and family and deposited them in your account and claimed they are your earnings in order to show a good bank balance when you applied for your wifes visa.

I am not saying that this is what you have done, but I have a sneaky feeling that is what the ECO who have refused you are probally thinking.

Ok what you have to do first of all, get your accountant to do a proper and detailed account account as to how you arrive at what you earn. Like one of the above post has stated get the accountant to write down that they know you and that you have been their client for ??? years.

Ideally if you could get 2/3 yrs account in which the earnings are similar that will be good as it will prove that your earnings have been consistent.

Also get a letter from your taxi base to say who you are, how long you have worked there, how much you are roughly expected to earn working for that base. That will be useful backup.

Obviously I dont know what your bank statements says and how often you put your earnings into your account. I hope you have not made the typical mistakes when all of a sudden you started putting large amount of money just before your wifes application.

Banks statements need to show a regular income going in and a regular expenses going out. Those are the types of statement they will believe.

Just to conclude this last refusal reason, what they are saying that they dont believe that your earnings what you claim are true and that you will most likely apply for public funds sooner rather than later.

So my friend the onus is on you to prove this if you want your wife to come and live with you in the UK.

I will now explain to you what is the next procedure.

When you get your appeal notice and the refusal letter from your wife, you will need to complete the AIT2(Appeal Notice form) in such a way that when the Manager gets it at the BHC, he will change his mind and grant your wife a visa.

If you dont complete the Appeal notice in the proper way and dont convince the ECM at the BHC, then I am afraid AIT in Leicester will set a date for a hearing in 6 months time, and if you are lucky to win, add a further 3 months before the visa is stamped in your wife's passport and she can join you here.

Remember you must get your appeal to the BHC in Abu Dhabi and not to Islamabad, Karachi, Lahore within 28days from the day your wife recieved the Refusal Notice.

I bet you wished you had got married to some one in the UK, you would not have the need to worry about all this

Good luck you will need every bit of it from now on

i hope its enough I should have included a tenancy agrement.

Why would you need a tenancy agreement for, you are living with your mum.

You only need a tenancy agreement if you rent a property from someone and pay rent towards it

Thankyou very much Batleykhan i appreciate your detailed response.

I am looking to include in my appeal, my dads mortgage statement for the past couple of years a letter from the mortgage company to say the payments are paid on time also a letter from him confirming i can live with him.

I included a housing inspection report in my previous application but im going to include another one.

i will get the accoutant to do my accounts also try to get a p60. and my previous bank statements.

Just another question. because i get cash wage i dont really deposit money in the account would 3 moths statements be enough??

Ideally they want 6 month bank statements so they can see that same amount going in and going out. Its a risk sending 3 months one.

A question for batleykhan if I may...I don't want to steal RM786's thunder too much but its better than starting a whole new thread! myself and RM786 seem to be in a similar situation and batleykhan you raised some very good points there. The sudden increases in cash deposits to the bank worries me. The last tax year as a self employed window cleaner I earned just over £7500, we put this down on my wifes application, she was refused partly due to my finances. We are now preparing a new appliction and since June of this year I acquired more window cleaning work so I can earn more, £300 per week now. Will this "sudden increase" in my weekly cash deposits make the ECO suspicious? We will submit application September. Its looks like i'm damned if I do and damned if I don't! Stay on the same income and I can't support my wife..get more work so I can earn more money to support my wife and it looks dodgy and suspicious! Whats your opinion? Cheers

Dont worry mate you can steal as much thunder as you like this forum is for everyone. Are you going to do an appeal or are you going to put a fresh application in again.

Also guys i had a word with a solicitor my sister used he said the appeal process is very long as i already know. he said get all the correct info and put a new application in?? if i have all the correct documentation is it worth putting in a fresh application. personally i would take the appeal route because its risky re- applying, but if anyone else thinks otherwise then please post.

Takecare.

Phil

All I am saying to both you and RM786 is that whatever you earn in a week ,you take out your expenses and put the rest in your account . If you do this regularly, then your accounts will show a continious amount of the same money going in, whch is unlikely to raise suspicions particularly for self employed people.

Now there are going to be times when you might put in a bit lessor a bit more,or sometime you wont put in a weeek,thats not a problem.

Problem and suspicions arise if or example youput in £200 per week and then all of a sudden you put in £800. that type of deposits are likely toraise concerns and doubts in the mind of the ECO. All they have to refuse you,is if they doubt the minutest thing.

So my advice for allself employed people is that about 6 months prior to your spouse application is to put regular amounts in your bank, taking care that what you put in adds up to what your account states,otherwise you are going to have a problem

Hopet hat answers your question

Yes mate thats brilliant.
at this moment of time i have not been putting this money in the account. However i was putting this money 6 months prior to getting married and taking the paperwork with me, but because my wife got a date to submit the visa application like 3 months later the statements were out of date. now during these 3 months i didnt put money in the account i didnt think there is a need to because i had provided the previous 6 months. now i cant really providew them with statements but can i give them my tax return for April 2009. i can quickly give my account to the accountant tell him to send them of to inland revenue and get a p60 out of them?? will that be sufficient enough for them to think about overturning the refusal???

thankyou

Also guys i had a word with a solicitor my sister used he said the appeal process is very long as i already know. if i have all the correct documentation is it worth putting in a fresh application. personally i would take the appeal route because its risky re- applying, but if anyone else thinks otherwise then please post.

What fresh and correct docs are you going to provide that you already havent before. Also remeber its going to cost you a further £500+ and you are not guaranteed to get visa.

Sorry to say but with things like this you only get one opportunity to make sure you prepare your docs very carefully and well in advance of applying for your spousal visa.

Unfortunately somepeople dont think and prepare carefully and instead do hastily resulting in a refusal first time,and if you get refused 1sr time, you will normally get refused subsequently after that.

If i was in your sittuation I would appeal.Its suprising what you can learn and achieve if you take on teh authority

i think the best thing to do is appeal. i was just thinking of the quickest way i can get her here.

IM going to appeal to BHC. i think i will get a solicitor to write out a letter wit the ait form i send to them. with all the supporting evidence. I want them to overturn the decision. I want to make my case strong enough that they say, "Hold on a minute it looks like hes going to win the case in court so we rather not deal with the headache and issue the visa". So im just looking for the best way i can do that really.

My weekly deposits to the bank are regular and the same amount (give or take a few quid for petrol,lunch) so that sounds fine. You've answered my question batleykhan thanks. RM786, we put our appeal in, in May and they will be in touch in September about the hearing. The earliest this would be is November then if we won another 3 months until she got her visa. I've heard a lot of conflicting advice regarding fresh applications and appeals, I think it comes down to personal choice as everyones situation is different. For us if we waited for the appeal the earliest my wife would be over is February 2010 which is an awful long time, I could go and visit her in between but that would cost the same as a new application maybe more. Also I don't think our appeal would be very strong as we did not submit some things for our appeal at the time (because I was out of the country and could'nt get hold of them) but we have them now, therefore I think this application will be much stronger. Although as batleykhan says there is no guarantee. I can't understand though why just because you have applied before they are likely to refuse you again, if you do another bad application then fair enough but if you meet the requirments (I accept this is not easy to do) then to refuse you just because you have been refused before is very unfair. Obviously batleykhan knows his (or her) stuff and knows far more on this subject than myself so perhaps i'm being slightly naive? Good luck with it anyway RM786

If you are going to pay a solicitor to do that, then why not pay UKIAS to do the appeal work for you. They are specialist in immigration appeals, unlike all solicitors. Look em up first before going to a solicitor.

Here is their link
http://www.iasuk.org/home.aspx

Thanks philwafc.

What your saying is that you have an ongoing appeal but your going to put a new application in aswell???

I dont know what i got to do i just want her here asap and i want to go through the route that will get her here the quickest.

Batleykhan thankyou i will check them out but in the mean while i need to sort all my docs out aswell.

will keep you guys posted. takecare.

What your saying is that you have an ongoing appeal but your going to put a new application in aswell???

You can do the same RM. You can make a fresh application at any time during your wait for an appeal hearing. If you get granted a visa, you just withdraw your appeal at no cost or detriment to yourself