naturalisation and work in India

I am still puzzled at the inconsistency in the time taken for applications.
Why is it so? How come some applications take only 5 days, some 20 days and some 2 months too?
Can someone throw any light?
yk

I thinks there is no reliable explanation for the difference in times. But certainly the NCS is a positive factor in getting quicker decisions.

But keep in mind that all of the times you cited are considerably less than the 4+ months which is the current average cited by the Home Office. And this is much quicker then the 1+ years that it used to take a few years ago in the UK or the even longer time required by other countries.

So whether it's 5 days or 2 months is not really a big deal in the order of things!

Joseph

aali wrote:I received my PIO card yesterday. That took 10 days from 04 oct to 14 oct....i'm off to india this weekend.....

Isn't this against the declaration you make while applying for naturalisation that you would make UK as the country of residence ? Will the pasport be revoked and citizenship cancelled if the HO comes to know this ?

I haven't got the BNA 1981 in front of me, but AFAIR it requires you, on the day of application, to intend to continue to have your home (or principal home, if you have more than one) in the UK.

So I suppose it depends what you mean by "home" - and how much store you set by making a solemn declaration. It's certainly possible for an expatriate to think of the UK as "home". And I guess it is possible for someone to return to his country of origin while not thinking of it as going home. But I have to say I wouldn't be comfortable with it myself. Reminds me too much of Tony Banks's claim that he was going to cross his fingers while making a oath of allegiance to the Queen...

I'm also lacking a copy of the NIAA (which amended the 1981 Act's provisions for deprivation) at the moment, but I suspect there's little chance of the naturalisation being reversed, or the passport cancelled.

Even though the new deprivation provisions are much more flexible than the old, the HO Minister taking the Bill through the Lords effectively "hobbled" officials by undertaking that the provisions would be very sparingly used, so that deprivation would be scarcely more common than it was before - and you don't need a full set of fingers on both hands to count the number of deprivations that have taken place since WWII.

paul

ppron747 wrote:
I'm also lacking a copy of the NIAA (which amended the 1981 Act's provisions for deprivation) at the moment, but I suspect there's little chance of the naturalisation being reversed, or the passport cancelled.

There was a provision in the British Nationality Act 1948 which allowed naturalised citizens of the UK & Colonies to be deprived of citizenship if they lived outside the UK & Colonies for over seven years and did not register annually an intention to retain UK citizenship.

This was repealed in 1964.

JAJ said

There was a provision in the British Nationality Act 1948 which allowed naturalised citizens of the UK & Colonies to be deprived of citizenship if they lived outside the UK & Colonies for over seven years and did not register annually an intention to retain UK citizenship.
This was repealed in 1964.

Yes, but don't forget that there was also a general prohibition against deprivation unless "the Secretary of State" was satisfied that it was not conducive to the public good that the person should continue to be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies.

This was the reason for there having been so few deprivations: in the general run of things the public good is not, of course, affected one way or the other by whether one particular individual continues to be British.

rgds

paul

Basis,
I guess you are right, it would be against the declaration if one takes citizenship and leave UK for good. The act is aginst the spirit of the whole thing.

On the other hand, if a naturalised citizen leave the country for employment abroad, while rataining UK as his/her primary country of residence, you are not breaking the promise, which is what I am doing. The case becomes more so if you have your own house in the UK, your family continues to reside in the Uk and you have a clear plan about the period of stay abroad.

PIO card is nothing but a long term visa, and you do not dilute your allegience in any way by taking it.
cheers...

Good point. Anyway is there a way for anyone to find that out unless a specific scrutiny is opened. As HO instruction itself says that 'future intention' is difficult to establish or prove. They look at past pattern and as such there does not seem to be provision to prove after a few years that you still have UK as main home. Not even UKPA the passport authorities ask for such things to issue a UK passport.

basis wrote:Good point. Anyway is there a way for anyone to find that out unless a specific scrutiny is opened. As HO instruction itself says that 'future intention' is difficult to establish or prove. They look at past pattern and as such there does not seem to be provision to prove after a few years that you still have UK as main home. Not even UKPA the passport authorities ask for such things to issue a UK passport.

The UKPA is not concerned with that. it's job is simply to verify your entitlement to a passport ( naturalisation, birth etc) , identity checks and the issuing of the document.

The future intention issue is related more to the process that happens before that during naturalisation proceedings - i.e the granting of british nationality by the home office. once you have been naturalised, you have a right to a UK passport. The UKPA cannot refuse to issue you one just because it feels you may want to move abroad.

The point here is once naturalized is there any case study or process whereby one could be deprived of citizenship based on the future intention aspect.

basis wrote:The point here is once naturalized is there any case study or process whereby one could be deprived of citizenship based on the future intention aspect.

Would be surprising if there is. Intentions can obviously change over time and I imagine it would be horrendously hard to prove that a person didn't have every intention of making the UK their primary home ( which is all you say on the form) when they made the application. In theory they can change this one second after they get naturalisation in response to life events etc. etc.

I would be astounded if this has ever affected anyone in practice.

Thanks for the valuable views.

basis wrote:The point here is once naturalized is there any case study or process whereby one could be deprived of citizenship based on the future intention aspect.

In practical terms, no.

The two grounds for deprivation are:
• the person obtained British nationality by fraud, false representation or concealment of material fact or
• the person has engaged in activity which is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom or a British Overseas Territory.

Theoretically, a person who applied for naturalisation knowing that he didn't intend to continue to have the UK as his home or principal home would render himself liable to deprivation through having falsely represented his intentions at the time of application. But this would be virtually impossible to prove, even if the Home Office were minded to try, which I'm sure they wouldn't be...

I wish we could start a timeline recording for obtaining PIO / OIC cards - from submission of application to the receipt of the same including mode adopted (in person or by post)!!!!!
I do not know what you folks would think?
YK

What happens to our bank accounts that are current operational as NRIs when we acquire UK citizenship until we obtain a PIO / OIC card, please???????

As per OIC provisions I have read that your Indian citizenship remains for six months. So you have six months till you obtain OIC. Need to confirm this but I have read this on some other board.

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showth ... ost1296869

basis wrote:As per OIC provisions I have read that your Indian citizenship remains for six months. So you have six months till you obtain OIC. Need to confirm this but I have read this on some other board.

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showth ... ost1296869

I would dispute that. You lose your Indian citizenship the moment you take another - as mentioned by a poster on the link you gave and if you have an Indian passport issued by an overseas mission, it is printed explicitly on it as well. The six month grace period seems to be for property related affairs etc. but there is no provision for retention of Indian citizenship after you have acquired another. This is quite important as it is this that leads to your Indian passport becoming invalid as soon as you take the oath, you are no longer an Indian citizen and travelling on a document representing you as such is illegal and could lead to imprisonment etc.

agreed my mistake. can you answer to yorkking's question.

yorkking wrote:What happens to our bank accounts that are current operational as NRIs when we acquire UK citizenship until we obtain a PIO / OIC card, please???????

I suspect this falls into a grey area. The best people to answer it would be the banks themselves but knowing the way the Indian machinery usually turns I think the best strategy is to not invite problems onto yourself but quickly acquire the PIO card ( or OIC) such that at the next checkpoint the banks may have, you are still a properly accredited PIO who is allowed to hold the accounts. This is certainly what I am doing. The time taken for the grant of these cards is about 15 days and I don't think your status falling into a grey area for that amount of time is really going to be material. I applied for a PIO card as soon as I got my British passport and once I get it I will simply notify the banks that I am now a PIO and not an Indian citizen and would they kindly change their records accordingly. I don't expect any problems with that.

Further to this, if you look at this link :

http://www.icicibank.com/pfsuser/icicib ... ofix.htm#5

It suggests that for the purposes of opening these accounts you can be a person of Indian origin without having acquired a PIO card - note that they accept a copy of an old Indian passport as a means of proving Indian origin or indeed a self declaration that you are a person of Indian origin. So I don't think this should be an issue.

In any case I am still going to follow the strategy I outlined in my previous post.

lameness Can you tell us about when -

you attended your ceremony
you recd the UK passport
you applied for PIO
you expect / recd the PIO

Where did you apply for PIO - London / Birmingham ?

As someone has said these timelines would be useful to many

In my case

10th Nov ceremony
11th applied for fast track UK passport
16th i.e. tom I would receive UK passport
17th I'll apply for PIO

I've already posted my UK passport timelines in the sticky thread. I got my UK passport on 11/11 ( Friday). I applied for it using the fast track service on 10/11. It took one day.

As for the PIO card I applied yesterday(Monday) at he Indian HC in London. I could have collected it on the 1st of December ( their allocated date) but have elected to receive it by special delivery so may get it before that if it is ready by then.

Thanks very much. Can you please tell what douments you submitted alongwith your appln. Today and on the 26th Nov Indian HC and Embassies are closed due to some India holidays (today Eid).

Do you have to keep UK and / or Indian passport with them.

hi
why did u go for the PIO card?
Is it not a costly proposition? I believe it costs about £215 for adults and £155 for kids. Is it true?
Did you not prefer to wait for the OIC supposed to start on 14/11?
yk

The OIC though intended by the government to start on the 14th is not yet implemented by the Indian HC in London. In fact, I told the guys at the HC that they should check out the websites of the HC in Wellington and Washington It was the first they had heard of it - not unusual for the Indian Civil Service I guess ! Remember I actually went to apply for the PIO card on the date the OIC scheme is meant to start !

I applied for the PIO card because I need to travel to India frequently on work and it suits me. Secondly it only costs about £15 to upgrade from the PIO to OCI. I don't intend to stay in India beyond 6 months in the near future so it is good enough for now. When the OCI scheme is launched I just need to pay a nominal amount to upgrade. The OCI scheme is no less costly all things considered.

In terms of documents, the Indian HC needed the forms ( in duplicate) , 4 photographs ( no need to certify) and they took a photocopy of my British passport and returned it to me. They also took a copy of my Indian passport and handed it back after marking it as cancelled. As part of the package, I had given them a letter addressed to the passport officer asking them to cancel my Indian passport and return it to me as I had now acquired british citizenship- this they did without any problems.

The whole process was very quick - I recommend going in person to the HC - this way you get to keep all your documents and passports with you.
Go straight to counter 7 in London and tell them you're applying for a PIO card. People applying for PIO cards are taken aside ( often inside the inner sanctum !) and this way you get to escape the crush of the visa applicants who seem to crowd the place. Also , make sure you go after 9:30am in the morning as although they say that they accept applications from 8:30, the PIO guys don't kick in till 9:30. The best way would be to roll in about 10am - no appointments necessary.

And lastly - I saw a notice from the High commissioner on the board saying that today would actually be a full working day

Hope all this is helpful.