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But IO has already destroyed crucial evidence, by refusing him to fill in the landing card. They would have traced that landing card and in no way the IO would dinie his arrogance and breach of EU law!86ti wrote:Don't forget to include a copy of the stamp(s) and your residence card as evidence.
EDIT: Do your stamps have a number in the second row (between 'IMMIGRATION OFFICER' and the date)?
Not fully - There is still evidence of UK entry stamp(s) in my passport which is one of the two protocols that non-EEA family members in possession of a RC should not be subject to.DFDS. wrote:But IO has already destroyed crucial evidence, by refusing him to fill in the landing card. They would have traced that landing card and in no way the IO would dinie his arrogance and breach of EU law!86ti wrote:Don't forget to include a copy of the stamp(s) and your residence card as evidence.
EDIT: Do your stamps have a number in the second row (between 'IMMIGRATION OFFICER' and the date)?
Tell you something, they do these things intentionally, then try to bloke any litigation. Example, I've been stoped and searched then detained before, for a crime i did'nt do. On realising that they had detained me for no reason at all, officer fills in a stop and search form, but intentionally he dose'nt fill in the date as well as time on which the incident took place. Very little success can be achieved suppose i decided to follow up a lawsuit againist them, though i do have the form they issued me. I did'nt realise it had no date and time of the incident, not untill i arrived home.Plum70 wrote:Not fully - There is still evidence of UK entry stamp(s) in my passport which is one of the two protocols that non-EEA family members in possession of a RC should not be subject to.DFDS. wrote:But IO has already destroyed crucial evidence, by refusing him to fill in the landing card. They would have traced that landing card and in no way the IO would dinie his arrogance and breach of EU law!86ti wrote:Don't forget to include a copy of the stamp(s) and your residence card as evidence.
EDIT: Do your stamps have a number in the second row (between 'IMMIGRATION OFFICER' and the date)?
I have emailed my complaint over to the UKBA team.
Hi Plum70, following my being questioned at Paris Gare du Nord I wrote an email to complain the UK Border Staff and have just recieved a letter from UKBA apologising and reassuring me that i should not experience anything like this again in the future.Plum70 wrote:I welcome your experience as a +ve sign! Did the IO 'lead' in this encounter or did you have to remind him/her that you didn't have to fill a landing card/receive an entry stamp?
P.S: I suspect that until you acquire BC or French citizenship you may be subject to occasional questioning at the UK border. You should be able to acquire French nationality after 3 years of marriage (much quicker than BC) is it not?
86ti: Have you received the letter from the uKBA in response to your complaint on this issue? If so, what does it say (in summary).
also i didn't need to remind the IO at the counter that i didn't need to fill in a landing card. i arrived at the counter with a landing card in my hand and I wanted to hand it to her and she said i don't need that, it's fine. and she didn't place a stamp in my passport either.Plum70 wrote:I welcome your experience as a +ve sign! Did the IO 'lead' in this encounter or did you have to remind him/her that you didn't have to fill a landing card/receive an entry stamp?
P.S: I suspect that until you acquire BC or French citizenship you may be subject to occasional questioning at the UK border. You should be able to acquire French nationality after 3 years of marriage (much quicker than BC) is it not?
86ti: Have you received the letter from the uKBA in response to your complaint on this issue? If so, what does it say (in summary).
Excellent Stuff Mate!!! Hope they learn their lessonsPlum70 wrote:I have received a response from the UKBA to my complaint. Relevant excerpts in response to my complaint on landing cards read:
"...Eurostar are encouraged to ensure non-EEA passengers have a completed landing card before they are presented to a Border Force officer in order to eliminate delays at the controls. Unfortunately the EEA residence document is contained in the passport and it will not become apparent to Border Force that one is held prior to commencement of the examination".
Relevant excerpts in response to my complaint on (entry) stamps read:
"I would like to assure you that the UK does adhere to EC Directive 2004/38/EC and confirm that, as you are in possession of an EEA residence card, your passport should not have been stamped..."
The letter went on to say that "... As a result of your emails the guidance issued to our officers concerning the treatment of passengers holding residence cards is to be rewritten to ensure more clarity, and an interim instruction will be issued shortly."
This letter will accompany me on my travels just in case some border officers missed the refresher course!
Thanks 86ti for pointing me to the e-complaints service.
What exactly are they trying to say with that? It's not that you couldn't communicate that fact to them at any stage of the checking process...Plum70 wrote:"...Eurostar are encouraged to ensure non-EEA passengers have a completed landing card before they are presented to a Border Force officer in order to eliminate delays at the controls. Unfortunately the EEA residence document is contained in the passport and it will not become apparent to Border Force that one is held prior to commencement of the examination".
I think many more people should do the same.Plum70 wrote:Thanks 86ti for pointing me to the e-complaints service.
By now they should all be aware of the applications of the EEA Directive. Sure thier miss managment/ handling of EEA RC holders on boarder points, is a moral issue rather than a techinical one.Am sure they are all updated whenever possible.Plum70 wrote:Yes - but only a partial victory. I will monitor the quality of guidance updates on the UKBA website and operations at the borders over the next 12 months before sealing the file on this one.
I also intend to respond to the UKBA highlighting the fact that even when border officers have had the opportunity to inspect a passport holding a RC they still insist on a landing card being filled. The issue is that most are not aware of the applications of the EU Directive and by default apply UK immigration law to all non-EEA passengers, except they hold a ROA.
My thoughts exactly... the UKBA's response is tacit; they appear to acknowledge that non-EEA passengers in possession of a RC are NOT required to complete landing cards but are not declaring it outright. I wonder why?86ti wrote:What exactly are they trying to say with that? It's not that you couldn't communicate that fact to them at any stage of the checking process...Plum70 wrote:"...Eurostar are encouraged to ensure non-EEA passengers have a completed landing card before they are presented to a Border Force officer in order to eliminate delays at the controls. Unfortunately the EEA residence document is contained in the passport and it will not become apparent to Border Force that one is held prior to commencement of the examination".
In a way I see your point. Some border officers may have clouded judgement or bias towards (some) non-EEA passengers, and may therefore act unprofessionally in certain situations. However, I would like to give the UKBA ample opportunity to admit these errors and rectify them by providing clear guidance - in black and white and in accordance with EU law - that front line border officers can neither misconstrue nor misrepresent.DFDS. wrote:By now they should all be aware of the applications of the EEA Directive. Sure thier miss managment/ handling of EEA RC holders on boarder points, is a moral issue rather than a techinical one.Am sure they are all updated whenever possible.
This is what I pointed out in my complaint - clear border control guidance. Inspect non-EEA passenger's passport - UK Residence Card - establish that s/he still qualifies under this category - if 'Yes' = no entry stamp or landing card.London-er wrote:I think they should clearly state it on their website and stop beating about the bush. It was there before and they took it off. It has been under update for ages...they should tell it to the Birds
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... onsmanual/
I mean how difficult is it for UKBA staff to identify Residence Cards and figure out that the Holders do not require Landing Cards and (or) Arrival Stamps. How Difficult ???
I hope you were aware that Switzerland requires a Schengenvisa for holders of Residence Card issued by non-Schengen EEA-countries (such as the UK).Plum70 wrote:My husband and I are travelling over Christmas to Switzerland. Will post when back!
Fully aware - I have a 3-year mult. entry schengen visa.fysicus wrote:I hope you were aware that Switzerland requires a Schengenvisa for holders of Residence Card issued by non-Schengen EEA-countries (such as the UK).Plum70 wrote:My husband and I are travelling over Christmas to Switzerland. Will post when back!
Yeap! Used to travel on my WHM visa back in '07 before they took the leap.Strangely enough they allowed visa-free access to such persons before they joined Schengen!
Hi Plum70,Plum70 wrote:Said I would post back upon returning from hols:
Arrived with my husband at Heathrow terminal 1 this eve and went on the UK/EU passport queue. The IO saw my non-EU passport and asked for a landing card and I said I had a RC. He took both our passports, inspected my RC and went off to a back office. He reemerged and mumbled something about all being fine and sorry for keeping us.
I asked which queue to join if travelling alone and he said to join the UK/EU queue but to hold my passport open where the RC sticker is so that the IO, on seeing my non-EU passport, won't immediately turn me back. He also was aware that having a RC meant that I should be treated same as a EU/UK/EFTA national which indicates progress!
My only criticism about his advice is passengers are normally requested to present their passports closed so IOs can identify their nationality and inspect relevant visas/permits.
Any comments based on experience on either side of the immigration desk? When travelling alone do I hop on the EU queue + hold my passport open? Present it closed? Or just hop on the non-EU queue and save myself avoidable dialogue?