Retrieving a birth certificate from africa.

Hi every one. On a side note, this forum is great. I am fortunate to have found it as it has helped me learn a lot about niche problems that oncern various visa appplications.

I come with a question. My current employer is about to apply for a work permit so I can stay in the country (UK).

He has asked me to get various documents, such as my references and education papers.

One of the stumbling blocks is that I need to get my fathers birth certificate. He was born in Zambia (Northern Rhodesia) in 1952.
Of course, we dont have a copy.

I have about 7 weeks left in the country so I need to get this asap. Does anyone know of an birth certificate retrieval agency that operate in mid Africa or Zambia itself? I am not sure why he needs it as the wp application doesnt require any birth certificates from what I have read, but I need to do everything I can to get it.

The Zambian consulate in the UK doesnt offer that service and doesnt know of anyone in the UK that does. Instead I was given the phone number of the home office in Lusaka which I will phone soon. From past experiences, African governments process things like this at a snail's pace.

Any help would be gladly appreciated. This immigration sub culture is a desperate one. To everyone out there going through the same thing, goodluck and be optimistic as well as realistic. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Cheers
El_Ray

Nationality and Consular Registration Section of the Foreign & Commonwealth Office's Consular Directorate are able to arrange overseas document searches - for a fee. Seven weeks might be a bit ambitious, though...
tel: 020 7008 1500

Otherwise the British High Commission in Lusaka (contact details here) might be able to suggest someone.

What on earth has your Dad's birth certificate got to do with a WP application?

Chess wrote:What on earth has your Dad's birth certificate got to do with a WP application?

Very good question.

Furthermore I would imagine that only the Zambian government has got access to the Zambian birth Register and population register. Other agencies might be able to tell you whether or not a birth certificate exists for a given person but only the Zambian government itself can actually issue the birth certificate.

I find it hard to imagine that the Zambian consulate doesn't offer this service as the issuance of birth certificates is one of the core functions of overseas diplomatic missions.

I'm not sure I understand the point you're making, Dawie...
If you're saying that only the Zambian government can produce a copy of a Zambian birth certificate, you're undoubtedly right - and I'd have thought that that went without saying.
But if you're saying that no-one but a Zambian official can obtain a copy of a Zambian birth certificate on behalf of an interested party, I think you're wrong. In most countries, copies of vital records are available to anyone who wants them, be it lawyers, agents, etc . In some countries, the written consent of the subject of the record is required. In many, it isn't.
The Zambian consulate is far from being the only one in London that doesn't provide the service. Last time I asked, the USA was another...

ppron747 wrote:I'm not sure I understand the point you're making, Dawie...
If you're saying that only the Zambian government can produce a copy of a Zambian birth certificate, you're undoubtedly right - and I'd have thought that that went without saying.
But if you're saying that no-one but a Zambian official can obtain a copy of a Zambian birth certificate on behalf of an interested party, I think you're wrong. In most countries, copies of vital records are available to anyone who wants them, be it lawyers, agents, etc . In some countries, the written consent of the subject of the record is required. In many, it isn't.
The Zambian consulate is far from being the only one in London that doesn't provide the service. Last time I asked, the USA was another...

Guyz; dont forget we are talking about AFRICA here...

Being African; i know things operate illogically in may African countries...

Thank you ppron747. I will look at these when I get a moment.
I phoned the Zambian consulate and I asked whether, they could get this done here so I would not have to go through the process of getting it sent here via special delivery. The person who took the call said that it was not possible to get it done here and kept telling me to phone Lusaka.

What has birth cert got to do with a WP? I would like to know myself because a bcert isnt needed unless you are going for the "heavy weight" visa's. I need to ask my boss this question. I think it might be so that they can check my background, and make sure I havnt blown anything up or committed something horrendous.

Thanks again for the response's.

What has birth cert got to do with a WP? I would like to know myself because a bcert isnt needed unless you are going for the "heavy weight" visa's. I need to ask my boss this question. I think it might be so that they can check my background, and make sure I havnt blown anything up or committed something horrendous.

As far as I know there are no UK visas for which a birth certificate is required. A passport is always sufficient. Even for ILR and naturalisation applications (which are as heavy weight as you get in the IND) they would never ask for a birth certificate. So God knows what your employer has got up his sleeve.

A birth certificate proves nothing except that a certain person was born at a certain time in a certain place. It certainly doesn't prove your identity. Theoretically it is possible (though highly unlikely) for 2 people to have the exact same birth certificate details (except for the register number) if they were born at the same time, in the same hospital and given the same names. Highly unlikely, but theoretically possible.

If I were you I would tell your employer to stop wasting your time for unnecessary requests. A birth certificate is simply not needed for a work permit application.

Dawie wrote:

What has birth cert got to do with a WP? I would like to know myself because a bcert isnt needed unless you are going for the "heavy weight" visa's. I need to ask my boss this question. I think it might be so that they can check my background, and make sure I havnt blown anything up or committed something horrendous.

As far as I know there are no UK visas for which a birth certificate is required. A passport is always sufficient. Even for ILR and naturalisation applications (which are as heavy weight as you get in the IND) they would never ask for a birth certificate. So God knows what your employer has got up his sleeve.

A birth certificate proves nothing except that a certain person was born at a certain time in a certain place. It certainly doesn't prove your identity. Theoretically it is possible (though highly unlikely) for 2 people to have the exact same birth certificate details (except for the register number) if they were born at the same time, in the same hospital and given the same names. Highly unlikely, but theoretically possible.

If I were you I would tell your employer to stop wasting your time for unnecessary requests. A birth certificate is simply not needed for a work permit application.

Don't forget they are asking for his fathers Birth Certificate which makes the request even more ridiculous.

Chess wrote:

ppron747 wrote:I'm not sure I understand the point you're making, Dawie...
If you're saying that only the Zambian government can produce a copy of a Zambian birth certificate, you're undoubtedly right - and I'd have thought that that went without saying.
But if you're saying that no-one but a Zambian official can obtain a copy of a Zambian birth certificate on behalf of an interested party, I think you're wrong. In most countries, copies of vital records are available to anyone who wants them, be it lawyers, agents, etc . In some countries, the written consent of the subject of the record is required. In many, it isn't.
The Zambian consulate is far from being the only one in London that doesn't provide the service. Last time I asked, the USA was another...

Guyz; dont forget we are talking about AFRICA here...

Being African; i know things operate illogically in may African countries...

Very true chess, in fact, I know for a fact that in Zimbabwe no one can obtain another person's birth certificate (except for minors)- only the owner can apply for that. To me, this kinda makes sense as it cuts down on identity fraud.

In Zimbabwe, once u have a birth certificate ur automatically issued with an id number, at 16 this number is used to obtain an id card & then both these documents are needed to obtain a biometric passport. Imagine if someone somehow got hold of ur birth certificate & went on to obtain all these documents!! U'd be well & truly done for.

The only other way u'd be able to obtain someone's birth certificate is if that person is dead & u have legal documents attesting to power of attorney or you're the wife/husband etc.

I think you need to address Chess question First !!. Rather then talking about how to acquire your father birth certificates. This is rather unusual request. You are joking are not you ??.

You probably do not need it. Why do not you call work permit or ask your prospective employers to call them whether they really need your father birth certificates ??????.

Pantaiema

el_ray wrote:Hi every one. On a side note, this forum is great. I am fortunate to have found it as it has helped me learn a lot about niche problems that oncern various visa appplications.

I come with a question. My current employer is about to apply for a work permit so I can stay in the country (UK).

He has asked me to get various documents, such as my references and education papers.

One of the stumbling blocks is that I need to get my fathers birth certificate. He was born in Zambia (Northern Rhodesia) in 1952.
Of course, we dont have a copy.

I have about 7 weeks left in the country so I need to get this asap. Does anyone know of an birth certificate retrieval agency that operate in mid Africa or Zambia itself? I am not sure why he needs it as the wp application doesnt require any birth certificates from what I have read, but I need to do everything I can to get it.

The Zambian consulate in the UK doesnt offer that service and doesnt know of anyone in the UK that does. Instead I was given the phone number of the home office in Lusaka which I will phone soon. From past experiences, African governments process things like this at a snail's pace.

Any help would be gladly appreciated. This immigration sub culture is a desperate one. To everyone out there going through the same thing, goodluck and be optimistic as well as realistic. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Cheers
El_Ray

Hi everyone. I confronted my employer about the birth certificate requirement. The agency he spoke to said I should get these details. The agency were planning on taking the ancestry path. After explaining how the wp requirements to my boss, I no longer need the birth certificates. I wasted my time and yours. I am sorry. I am not able to get ancestry either. My grandparents were all born in SA. I have 3.5 years exp in flash/sql/web dev(ASP+coldfusion), software development and graphical design + a diploma in comp science and national certificate in electrical engineering.
I will be leaving the country soon and hopefully I will get a work permit via an agency. Its a long shot. But I can say I tried

If not . . .well, I guess I will go back, study for 3 years, get a degree in computer science, come back and post more dumb questions on the forum. Sounds like a plan?

This is a great forum, and the people are very helpful.

Take care.

It may be worth considering taking a post graduate course minimum Masters level (you would still need to go home for a student visa) after which you would be eligible for the Science & Engineering Graduate Scheme (SEGS) that allows applicants to work in the UK for a year after completing their studies. As they tend to be applicants from fields deemed to have strong demand but short supply for the relevant skills there is often less of a problem getting a WP.

Hi Kayalami. Thanks for the post. I would like to study in the UK and get a degree or masters right here. But it is very costly which would mean I would still have to work full time. Is there a trick to it or some blindingly obvious way of doing this that I am not seeing? I could take a loan from the bank thats as far as my insight goes. I am digging around on the net for info. I dont have relatives here or anyone I could stay with so I would still have to maintain some sort of income.

With a student visa you can work up to 20hrs a week and full time during your holidays, you will would have to find yourself a sponser who would sign a letter and hand over a few bank statments. but I would sugest enrolling quite soon as the major degree's start in September.

I have made it sound really simple but it is a bit more complicated speak to the uni that accepts you for guidance, and any other oversees students you might know