Czech RC for non-EU family member

Hello!
I am from Chile, currently in Slovakia and married with a slovak girl.
We went to the police station to ask for my resident permit or resident card, but the police said that since my schengen "visa" (we chileans do not need visa to entry to the schengen area, but have 90 days to stay here) is about to finish the next week, I need to go away and come back in three months to ask for the resident permit, or my wife can do it here while I am away.
Is it that true? As far as I know, I could stay there while the permit is being processed. Are they able to tell me to leave my wife for three months while waiting for a permit? As I was sure that I can keep here because I am married with an EU citizen, I wasn't that worried of doing this before. They said that it will take around 2 months so I can't keep here and if they approve my permit soon I can come back sooner.
Hope you can help me. I was reading the Directive/2004/38/EC and the MRAX but it's not that clear for a noob in laws.
Cheers!

Has your Slovak wife been working in another EU state ?
if she has not, then you don't benefit from 2004/38/EC.
You come under National Law Act 48/2002.

It is important to point out, Slovakia do not give equal rights
to their own citizens non-EU family, compared to other EU citizens
non-EU family.

From what I have googled about "Act 48/2002 slovakia"
e.g.
http://www.mzv.sk/en/consular_info/resi ... f_slovakia

it says nothing about have to leave Slovakia, as you have been told.
I think the guy you where talking to, just didn't want to do any work,
and send you away.

I suggest you try again with someone else in the Police,
or contact a local immigration lawyer.


to read more about Slovakian law and 2004/38/EC see
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... udy_en.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... nce_en.pdf

Yes I've read that, the problem is that it was the three polices there who said the same, I have to go again today so I hope there are others today.
My wife is Slovak and only working in Slovakia (and studying here too), I work over the internet so I also have incomes.
It doesn't say anywhere that I must leave the schengen area for 90 days and get back with tourist visa and then ask for the resident card, as I was told. Even in the European Commission website there are one example similar to mine saying that the lonely marriage certificate is enough to stay here, so slovak police shouldn't ask for visa in order to give me the resident card.

If your wife cannot derive a right from free movement (essentially having been resident in another member state and exercised treaty rights there or been a cross border worker or provided services to another member state) she obviously cannot rely on the Directive and you are subject to national law (cited above).

Today I went again to police and they said I don't "must" leave the country or Schengen area, but they won't give me the RC until I am 90 days away of Schengen area, and come back with a new tourist stamp in my passport.

My wife cited that nowhere in the laws it says that I must live the country and that the solely relationship we have is enough for me to stay here. The police said that it's true, I can stay here "forever" (he said), even they're already processing my RC, but the police said I can't pick it up until I am 90 days away from Schengen.

We are trying to contact an immigration lawyer here

While it may appear that countries are making it more difficult to study overseas the changes in the Immigration laws do actually protect your international education.

The aim of these restrictions is to prevent bogus and unrecognised colleges offering poor study courses to international students. Therefore ensuring you receive an excellent education from a recognised institution.

If you and your wife move/travel together to ANY other "host" EU member state (other than Slovakia!), then you are immediately legally resident there and can remain for up 3 months.

If you wish to remain for more than 3 months, then your wife will need to work there.

After she has worked for a little while in the "host member state", then you can, if you wish, both move back to Slovakia on the same easy basis of EU law. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/

This is the part that I (think I) understand but I still can't believe.

According to the Slovak Foreign Police I will be illegal in Slovakia if my visa expires and I haven't get the residence card, but I have the right to stay here and they cannot deport me because I am married with a Slovak citizen, but they won't give me the card (even if they already have it approved, they said), because according to them I'll be illegal.

But if we move to the Czech Republic (my father-in-law lives there, I don't know if that helps… and my mother-in-law lives in Wien) and my wife starts to work there (she can easily ask for a transfer in her work), I will be a fully legal resident and I could apply for a resident card in the basis of the Directive 2004/38/EC.

I think that it's a crazy situation. I've reading that in others european countries the spouse who is asking for the permit has forbidden to leave the country, but in Slovakia they are sending me away. What if we ask for the permit here and we go together to travel for the next three months and we just pick the permit up when we are back? Or can we leave the Schengen area (I am still thinking of a weekend in Croatia) and return together showing our marriage certificate? Would I be allowed even when I've spent my 90-in-180-days in Schengen? This is why others countries don't allow the spouse to leave I think. Also the police made me to sign a notarized power of attorney so my wife can do/sign/ask all this requirement in my name and even she can take my permit and "to send me it by post" so I can return. In the other hand they said they are coming to our flat to visit us and to be sure that we live together… but if I am here they will arrest me

I was talking with my wife so we can go to the Czech Republic but she is now scared that I will be asked to leave too.

EU free movement law generally only applies when an EU citizen moves to a DIFFERENT country than that of their citizenship. So a Brit moving to France is covered by EU free movement law, but a Brit who stays in the UK and moves to Manchester is not covered.

Only if your wife has moved to another EU member state to work is she covered by EU law.

The same goes for not only Slovakia, but also the UK and the Netherlands and .... Each country has national immigration law, which is usually more restrictive and less flexible than EU free movement law.

Read through some of the material at http://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/

I've reading that in countries like UK, Greece and Finland the non-EU spouse has forbidden to leave the country while the RC is being processed. So the system here in Slovakia sounds a little more "weird".

But well, my wife got a job in Prague, so we're about to move there. But to be sure that we won't have problems there we went to the Czech Consulate here in Bratislava and oh surprise! they said that they don't know about the Directive and that I'll be illegal in Czech if I am not holding a resident permit of another country, and that if I want to ask for the RC there I have to leave the country for… 270 days! (9 months), what is the time they take to decide for the residence of foreigns.

I don't know what's going on here, is it a kind of joke or what?

I've reading that in countries like UK, Greece and Finland the non-EU spouse has forbidden to leave the country while the RC is being processed.

As regards the UK, where have you read that?

As regards the Czech Consulate in Bratislava my comment is ..... more staff training needed! I think both Czech Republic and Slovakia are now both members of the Schengen Area, so no problem you just driving there or travelling there by public transport. Then after your wife has started her job, she will be defined as a Worker under the terms of the EU Directive. Then you can apply in-country for your Residence Card.

John wrote:

I've reading that in countries like UK, Greece and Finland the non-EU spouse has forbidden to leave the country while the RC is being processed.

As regards the UK, where have you read that?

I don't remember exactly, when I see it again I will post it here


Yes both countries are part of the Schengen Area, the problem is not crossing the border but getting the residence card.
My wife starts working there on november 1st and in that time my visa will be already expired, I've read that it doesn't matter and that's what I wanted to confirm in the Consulate, but as you can see they even didn't recognize the Directive.
I also was reading in the Conformity Study of the Directive in the Czech Republic, Article 10(1) that the decision of the RC is issued in 30 days, not 270 days as they said in the Consulate.

Czech's messy implementation of Directive
The study done in 2008

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... udy_en.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... nce_en.pdf

Your wife is Slovakian. She is going to work in Czech Republic. You are married.

That means you have a right to be there. Do not worry. If you have any problems once you get to prague, ask for a superior and have them write it down.

EU law is VERY clear in a simple case like yours. If you are with her, then you are 100% legal. In the first 90 days she does not need to work or do anything particular. After that she needs to be working.

The key and very clear case law is MRAX. See the link in the article http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

Well, we are moving the next weekend, and my wife starts working there in 2 weeks, we already went to Prague two times and we have the lease agreement since november 1st.
My 90 days already expired, so wish me luck. I will keep you updated.

Hello!

I want to update the information of this topic

On thursday my wife and I went to Foreign Police in Prague for the registration, and the police who checked us said that the only "problem" was that I didn't have health insurance, so I should get one and go back. I got insurance and friday and I went alone today morning to police, but there were another police (who didn't speak English) and he called to another woman and she started to tell me that I am illegal in Czech Republic, that they're going to deport me, etc.
We started to argue about it, when I talked about the Directive (my bad I didn't print a copy, but after the good first experience here I didn't think it was necessary), she said that she doesn't care about European laws because this is CR and they have their own laws, when I said my wife is working she said she doesn't care about it or about my wife, she only said that she wanted to see a permanent resident permit of another country. I said what happened in Slovakia and that I cancelled the request, she asked to show any proof of that and I had one letter that slovak police sent me for the interview, she said it wasn't enough, and then she said I was lying and I never applied for it in Slovakia. Then I asked one paper saying the reasons why they are refusing me the registry and she said that they are not going to give me any paper like that, only the exit visa and the ticket back to Chile.
After one hour like this they left (there were 3 polices at that moment with me, all of them saying the same), and they came back after a few minutes saying that their boss "accepted" my reasons (?) so they will registry me so I could go to ask for the RC... so they did.

I went to the office of the Ministry of Interior for foreign people after that and I applied for the RC. They said it takes about 2 months.

Happy end? I don't know

moroni wrote:We started to argue about it, when I talked about the Directive (my bad I didn't print a copy, but after the good first experience here I didn't think it was necessary), she said that she doesn't care about European laws because this is CR and they have their own laws,

The girl is nothing but an ignorant bully, who did not know Czech law.
And the CR have National laws, based on the EU directive.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... udy_en.pdf

The main transposing instrument of the Directive is Act no 326/1999 Coll. on the residence of aliens
in the territory of the Czech Republic, as amended (hereinafter the “Aliens Act”) (Zákon 326/1999 SB.
ze dne 30. listopadu 1999 o pobytu cizinců na území České republiky a o změně některých zákonů, ve
znění pozdějších předpisů.) The act was in force prior to the adoption of the Directive, so it was
amended accordingly as well as the other acts (last transposing measure came into force on 21
December 2007).

moroni,
I hope you got their names and job titles. You should report your experience to European Commission: http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/your_rights/ ... rms_en.htm

I agree, it is worth complaining. See https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/1 ... fectively/ for some suggestions.

Sadly I didn't take their names or numbers, but I think they have a registry of people in each date and time…
I sent an e-mail to the ministry of the interior office for foreign people and they said I could complain to the police authorities
I am still thinking about complaining to the EC

To keep it up-to-date.

Even when the Czech laws state that the RC must be issued within 60 days, when that time expired I've only got one sticker LTV-visa-style for 60 days more, and the apologies of the MOI for the delay.

Today two plain-clothes polices came to our flat, I guess to check that we live together, they asked me my passport, and talked with my wife by phone since she was at work. They asked her where she works, how much we pay for the flat, and if we know the neighbors.

Is this procedure in the line of the Directive 2004/38/EC? We didn't know they were coming, and I don't know what's next now, maybe they will finally issue the RC?

It is permissible to conduct checks where there is a well-founded suspicion of abuse or fraud, but checks should not be routine.

There will be good news after checking on you, if they are satisfied with all the informations and observations.

moroni wrote:Today two plain-clothes polices came to our flat, I guess to check that we live together, they asked me my passport, and talked with my wife by phone since she was at work. They asked her where she works, how much we pay for the flat, and if we know the neighbors.

Some of these questions are out of line.

Did the police say why they were there?

So far, it looks like a routine check.
My wife just remembered that when she went to pick up her Certificate of Residence she asked about mine and the woman said that police will come to our flat and we will be called to an interview after it.
The police just said they were coming to "check the flat"