Tier 1 (G) Extension Visa deferred due to insufficient proof

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:42 pm

Hi,

I applied for my tier 1 (G) extension visa at Croydon PEO as an employee of my own limited company. I pay my self using salary and dividends (Around 10K sal and 39K dividends for last 12 months). Here is the list of documents I provided.

1. 12 months pay slips
2. Dividend Vouchers
3. Letter from accountant.
4. Salary and Dividend break up from my Accountant.
5. Remittances summary stamped by Accountant.
6. Invoices Stamped by Accountant.
7. Original personal Bank Statements.

The CW refused me the Visa and said that -
Because of the large dividend payments I am making from the company(I pay dividends quarterly), which means that I am controlling the company's operation and I will not be classed as an Employee but would be classed as a self Employee. And therefore CW wanted me to provide more evidences to prove my earnings.

They have handed me a letter now which states that -

To help me consider your matter, please send me the following documents.
1) Business Bank Statements.
2) HMRC Tax document confirming your self employment earnings tax payment or tax registration number.

I need to send a reply to them along with the above documents with in 7 days.

I have all the business bank statements with me, so that is no problem. However I am not registered as a self employed at HMRC. I am registered as an employee.

Should I just send them my UTR number (So that they can check with HMRC that I am registered as an employee)?

Any thing in particular that I should mention in my cover letter, which can make my case a bit strong.

It is really very confusing because with the same set of documents, I got my original Tier 1 - (G) visa.

Thanks for reading the long post.
Your guidance is welcome.

geriatrix · Post by **geriatrix** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:02 pm

Introduction wrote:Under Part 6A of these Rules, "Self-Employed" means an applicant is registered as self-employed with HM Revenue & Customs, or is employed by a company of which the applicant is a controlling shareholder.

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:17 pm

Thanks for the quick reply. So it looks like for UKBA I am considered as a Self Employed, but for HMRC I am employee.
So In that case How can I Submit the document below?
2) HMRC Tax document confirming your self employment earnings tax payment or tax registration number. , since I don't have one because of this mismatch.

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:53 pm

Hi Seniors,

Please guide me...what should I do? Should I register with HMRC as self employed and get a UTR number from them but on their website I found that it would take upto 6 weeks to get the UTR number.
Also would my previous earnings be considered if I pay class 2 NI for last twelve months now (after registering)

geriatrix · Post by **geriatrix** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:25 pm

You cannot register yourself as self-employed with HMRC when you are a director of a limited company.

Do you have corporate tax return?
Do you have evidence of NI Class 1 (PAYE) contributions that your company ought to be paying to HMRC?

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:40 pm

Hi Sushdmehta,

Thanks again for the clarification.

I have "Acknowledgement of corporate tax returns" for the Accounting period 10 Feb 2010 to 09 Feb 2011, which I received in Nov 2011. For the year 2011-2012, it is still awaiting. Would that be ok? Can I submit last year's document, and mention the reason why I do not have the latest one?

For the NI Class 1 (PAYE) contributions, What proof can I present? Can I Show the payments made to HMRC Shipley from my business accounts for that?

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:39 am

Hi Seniors, Please suggest, what should I do in this case. I have very few days left to send them a reply with supporting evidence.

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:10 am

sushdmehta wrote:You cannot register yourself as self-employed with HMRC when you are a director of a limited company.

Do you have corporate tax return?
Do you have evidence of NI Class 1 (PAYE) contributions that your company ought to be paying to HMRC?

Thanks again for the clarification.

I have "Acknowledgement of corporate tax returns" for the Accounting period 10 Feb 2010 to 09 Feb 2011, which I received in Nov 2011. For the year 2011-2012, it is still awaiting. Would that be ok? Can I submit last year's document, and mention the reason why I do not have the latest one?

For the NI Class 1 (PAYE) contributions, What proof can I present? Can I Show the payments made to HMRC Shipley from my business accounts for that?

I can also show the the payments for corporate taxes done from my company's account (As I am submitting the bank statements, Along with Notice given by HMRC to pay the corporate taxes. Does this help my case

geriatrix · Post by **geriatrix** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:45 pm

Given the time constraint, for you it is more like "what I provide to prove self-employment" rather than "what are the ideal documentary evidences to prove self-employment".

Therefore,
1. provide corporation tax return that you have, and CT603 if it has been issued.
2. If you do have NI contribution receipts then provide evidence of payments (bank statements).

Writing a cover letter to explain what you are providing to prove what will help.

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:01 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Given the time constraint, for you it is more like "what I provide to prove self-employment" rather than "what are the ideal documentary evidences to prove self-employment".

Therefore,
1. provide corporation tax return that you have, and CT603 if it has been issued.
2. If you do have NI contribution receipts then provide evidence of payments (bank statements).

Writing a cover letter to explain what you are providing to prove what will help.

Thanks for the reply... I was so eagerly waiting for that

. I think your suggestion makes very much sense.

I found CT603 (Notice to deliver company taxes) and CT620 (Acknowledgement of company tax returns). These payments would also match with corresponding payments made from my business account.
My Company’s business bank statements show the payments for
o HMRC Shipley for PAYE.
o HMRC REVENUE & CUSTOM for corporation tax.
o HMRC VAT for VAT.

I have few more questions listed below.

1) I am not clear about your point no-2. Are you talking about Class1 NI(PAYE)?
If Yes, then they can anyways check that on the Business bank statement that I am providing. I will have to mention that in my cover letter.
I don't have any receipts for that though. Will it be ok?

Is this some thing my accountant might have?

Accountant Provided Remittance Summaries which mentions the PAYE amount deducted by company. I think that, along with Business bank statements should be sufficient. What do you think?

2)What is Tax Registration Number? Is it same as corporation tax number?

3) Should I include any thing else? like
a) Certificate of VAT Registration and approval to use Flat Rate Scheme for my company?
b) Correspondence letter from HMRC mentioning company's PAYE Reference Number.
c) Letter and state the corporation tax liability for my company for the period of earning that I am claiming? Or I should just keep it simple by providing them just the info that they have asked?

Thanks again for your valuable suggestions. I am just waiting for my bank statements now, which should come by Tuesday. So I am planning to send all the documents by Tuesday (30/10) evening.

geriatrix · Post by **geriatrix** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:09 am

The onus is on you to prove that you are self-employed.

Read 19-SD and send whatever documents you have (and were not included in the initial application) in your possession from within those prescribed under 19-SD for self-employed applicants.

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:12 pm

sushdmehta wrote:The onus is on you to prove that you are self-employed.

Read 19-SD and send whatever documents you have (and were not included in the initial application) in your possession from within those prescribed under 19-SD for self-employed applicants.

I went though the link. I don't think I would be able to provide any thing else, mainly because I am not paying class 2 NI, and i'm not registered as Self Employee at HMRC. I do have UTR, but that will not help my case I think.
Business Accounts and Profit and Loss accounts are optional, If I provide accountant's letter, which I have already provided with my initial documents.

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:17 pm

delete as not required

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:42 am

Quick question. If I submit P&L statement and Company's accounts, Does it need to be covering the whole earning period claimed?
I have these documents with me, but they are generated at the end of company's financial year and not at the end of earning period claimed.

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:39 am

asethi wrote:Quick question. If I submit P&L statement and Company's accounts, Does it need to be covering the whole earning period claimed?
I have these documents with me, but they are generated at the end of company's financial year and not at the end of earning period claimed.

Hi,

Could any one out there please clear the confusion above. From the policy it looks like it should be created for the earning period claimed, but my accountant is saying that It should be created for the company's financial year ending.

Thanks,
Amit Sethi

geriatrix · Post by **geriatrix** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:27 am

Read the last sentence in para 114(viii) of the policy guidance.

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:56 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Read the last sentence in para 114(viii) of the policy guidance.

Got it. For the Self employment earnings, Do I get points awarded for

Net Dividend taken from company + Tax Credit?
or
Net Dividend taken from company
or
Gross Profit (Before Corp Tax)
or
Net Profit.

I have claimed for Net Dividend taken from company + Tax Credit. Would It be any issue?

tier1_aspirant123 · Post by **tier1_aspirant123** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:57 pm

yes Net Dividend taken from company + Tax Credit

geriatrix · Post by **geriatrix** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:17 pm

And salary too!

asethi wrote:I pay my self using salary and dividends (Around 10K sal and 39K dividends for last 12 months).

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:02 am

sushdmehta wrote:And salary too!
asethi wrote:I pay my self using salary and dividends (Around 10K sal and 39K dividends for last 12 months).

Thanks, Yes I have claimed for that too. Posted all the documents to UKBA yesterday. My Initial Application was in Croydon, but they have asked me to post the documents to Sheffield office. Now it is just a waiting game. I would keep every one posted here with the timelines.

@sushdmehta - When UKBA asked "HMRC tax document confirming the tax payments for self employment earnings or Tax Registration Number ", Do they want to see the CT603 and CT620 ?
or
Do they want to see the personal tax being paid on the dividend income (SA302, personal Income tax returns showing tax paid on dividend income) ?

I am having mixed opinions from people. My accountant said they want to see (SA302, personal Income tax returns showing tax paid on dividend income), But you have mentioned earlier about CT603.

asethi · Post by **asethi** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:22 am

Hi all,

Just to let you all know, that my application for Tier1 (G) extension is approved. I got an email from UKBA, saying that, since I am the director of limited company, I am considered as an employee as far as HMRC is concernt, and I do not need to provide any additional documents. They also apologized for the mistake in assessing my application by PEO Croydon.

Thanks all for you help specially Sushdmehta.

Cheers,
Asethi

tier1_aspirant123 · Post by **tier1_aspirant123** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:07 pm

congrats...

but this email makes things more easier for future applicants as there has always been confusion on the self employed as there is discrepancies between UKBA's definition and HMRC's definition...

v3 · Post by v3 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:02 am

so what all you submitted finally ?

tungha2106 · Post by **tungha2106** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:48 pm

asethi wrote:
sushdmehta wrote:And salary too!
asethi wrote:I pay my self using salary and dividends (Around 10K sal and 39K dividends for last 12 months).
Thanks, Yes I have claimed for that too. Posted all the documents to UKBA yesterday. My Initial Application was in Croydon, but they have asked me to post the documents to Sheffield office. Now it is just a waiting game. I would keep every one posted here with the timelines.

@sushdmehta - When UKBA asked "HMRC tax document confirming the tax payments for self employment earnings or Tax Registration Number ", Do they want to see the CT603 and CT620 ?
or
Do they want to see the personal tax being paid on the dividend income (SA302, personal Income tax returns showing tax paid on dividend income) ?

I am having mixed opinions from people. My accountant said they want to see (SA302, personal Income tax returns showing tax paid on dividend income), But you have mentioned earlier about CT603.

hi asethi. can you please let us know what documents did you submitted.
I am in the same boat and my extension is due in Feb. any help will be much appreciated. thanks

A&J · Post by **A&J** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:48 am

HI plz help

can you please tell me do they accept ( 100% share holder) limited company net profit to claim the points?

I have my own limited company with 100% share holder . take salary and dividends. but in my application I claimed my salary and net profit of the company. they refused saying they will only take the account of dividends and salary but will not count the money left in my business account as i have not transferred it to my personal account. ( I retained expenses +corporation tax+net profit in my company account) I was only claiming the net profit of the company

my main question
1. can i claim the net profit of a limited company? if i am 100% share holder.
2. can money be retained in business account ?

reply as soon as possible plz plz

Applied on 10 sept 2012 on a PEO appointment got refusel letter on 5 dec 2012 and got a appeal right.

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Tier 1 (G) Extension Visa deferred due to insufficient proof

Tier 1 (G) Extension Visa deferred due to insufficient proof

Profit and Loss accounts & Company's account

Re: Profit and Loss accounts & Company's account

Visa approved

urgent help please contact asap plz plz plz