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why I voted for brexit

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push, Administrator

ei
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by ei » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:05 am

Well, I voted Remain and I would again and I hate to be dragged out of EU and lose my rights to live and work in other 27 countries.

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by ei » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:10 am

nachfee wrote:I am so sorry but your reasons are baseless. Is it a good idea coming here to vent out when this is a website used by many to settle as a EEA? You will get an emotional response... at least, you look like you want to get one.

It is much more factual and realistic to blame your government and your MP (if voted for zero hours contracts) than European citizens, they are the law-makers after all. I highly doubt any person would be happy with an uncertain job, European or non-European. It is quite ludicrous this statement, I have to say.

It is very sad you as a British citizen and still until today a European citizen, has failed to realised the great advantages of being part of the EU such has been able to work and live in 27 other countries, that is something an Australian dreams about. I am a Non-EEA citizen married to a EEA citizen (with British ancestry but decided to stay European) with many European friends here. Not one has claimed benefits, most of them speak at least three languages and are all professionals and do incredible work. Most of them do either charitable work, social work, public sector work (nursing) or tourism. Most of them have left already and after Brexit, it was an exodus, at least in my circle of friends. We are pretty much the last ones here because we have a business. They all left after the 26th of June and we are planning to do the same during the next 2 years.
They are either doing Erasmus (a great opportunity that many British seem to not have enjoyed and probably, know nothing about) and got better jobs in Europe because, believe it or not there are much better jobs in Europe for undergraduate polyglots. They just stayed here because they have friends, loved ones, got married, etc. My friends that left were either single or had no kids... But trust me, those with kids or in relationships are thinking about it, it isn't that difficult to move and the mood it has created, this Brexit, it is far more complicated and sour than the complications relocating to another country brings.

You are talking about a very small group of European citizens when it comes to benefits. In 2015 it was said at least 87% of benefit takers were British citizens. It's all online. Just google it. I highly doubt even half of that number are EU citizens because who would go through paying £1000 to get naturalised?.

Just a side note to clarify naturalisation from a EEA perspective: This can only happen after continuously living here for 6 years. The main four ways to apply as are as follows:
1) and 2) As a self-employed or worker:
Stay here for 5 continuous years (after acquiring EEA2 permit) exercising treaty rights (yes!, paying taxes!) or
3) and 4) As self-sufficient or student (which requires health insurance, yep! against European law, yep! Not cheap!)
So, who would then be going through all these shenanigans for a British passport which still costs £1000? If they still got the right to stay here?
Therefore, most of those "British citizens" getting benefits are either true British or non-EEA (need papers to stay right?).
A small percentage of Europeans applied for British passports, it was seen as a waste of money (of course, not any more)

Benefits for Europeans? Since 2014 (not retrospective), EU citizens do not get more than six-months job seekers allowance and get no housing benefits at all.
Also, if these European citizens were the "scroungers" you make them to be, they would go to Germany or France, their benefit system is far more generous than the British one even so doubling in some aspects. And for family members? I am not entitled to benefits (neither I need them, I rather clean toilets), I have a EEA2 residence card at the moment...
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/be ... -i-qualify

You say you are from Bangladesh. The biggest immigration into the UK is non-EEA citizens specially from India and Pakistan. At the moment, it is Polish people (only 0.5% more than Indians) but for a very very very long time it has been South East Asians, therefore to be annoyed about this is ridiculous. I mean, getting annoyed at people who have been coming here for the past 10 years instead of 50 years? Right...
These is also the part of the world with the most sham marriages to get British papers. When I applied it was bad in the tens of thousands. This is the main reason as to why they ask for so many personal documents (even for EEA applications, it helps) The reason they have cracked down the British immigration law path to get papers it's because of the sham marriages so unfortunately there is your answer.

Integration? I have met a huge amount of people from South East Asia that have been here for decades and can't even speak English. You go to some parts of London and its basically being in Pakistan or India - I understand some English people when they get annoyed about that (then I tell them to blame colonialism) I for one do like globalisation and multiculturalism, I love what London have become - a mini Earth. Though for you to say that Europeans don't integrate is so incredibly rich. I am sure your parents and many people in your community have integrated fine but many haven't, bringing even their tribal thinking into the country, having in-fights in mosques because rival families were living here. I tell you because I know this happened as I have friends who are Muslims and stopped going to the mosque because of this.

Also have you met British migrants abroad? Many don't even speak the language! Going to south Spain is insane how many live in their bubble. My sister lives in Portugal and most of her British friends don't speak the language. I am sure that there are many British who have integrated but it is worth mentioning. I even said to one Englishman "Hola" and the guy flipped because I spoke Spanish to him, "I don't speak Spanish! Don't speak that language to me", I mean WTF? I swear this is a true story. :lol:

Europeans have far more things in common with other Europeans than with South East Asians, I'm sorry.

This was just an opportunity for a minority group to get a threatening minority group out of their way... There is far greater immigration numbers from non-EEA countries than from EEA countries. This is a fact.

Once the whole "blame the EU" thing doesn't work any more, I am sure they will turn to something else. Most probably another immigration group too blame all ills on. Who are second in the immigration list? Pakistanis and Indians and everyone that looks like them.
The whole "Blaming others" it's too much in the air at the moment, it is a lot easier to blame others for our problems than ourselves. We are so contempt with being kicked in the backside all the time by our governments, we are the most compliant people in Europe while our neighbours complain, protest, strike in masses. We have the audacity to then blame those who are working among us than those that are above us making the laws. You couldn't make this up!
So are EU citizens also to blame about the raise on taxes for self-employed? While corporations like Google and Apple have avoided millions in taxes?

What "got you angry" was a reciprocal agreement of which 1 million British citizens are enjoying, whom many enjoy with paying zero in taxes because they are retirees and use their health system with no health insurance. If you want to come here as a self-sufficient EEA citizen (or student), you HAVE to - by law - have a Health insurance to be able to apply for a permanent residence 5 years later. That law is very anti-European law and many people tried to argue against it with little effect. This law is not implemented in France, Spain, where many British live.

What's the problem with sending money back home? You think Europeans live for free here and pay no council tax, no tv license, no VAT, no bills, no phone contracts, no transport, no food, no local entertainment, no restaurants, nothing? ALL the money is send back home? I HIGHLY doubt that.

Have you read about Cambridge Analytica, ownd by a friend of Nigel farage, which helped fueled emotional propaganda in the UK and the US by getting into your social media accounts?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... exit-trump

In any case, I hope it goes well. It does annoy me people that wish for the worst to proof their point. I do think it will be a very very difficult deal agreement and talks - Greenland took ages and Canada as well.. This will be far more complicated that any of the current 28 nations have ever experienced. I highly doubt it will take 2 years. As for immigration, this will stop EU immigration in 2 years but it will not stop immigration from outside the EU which is still higher.

I wonder Zakir, as you are Bangladeshi, I assume you are Muslim. Do you agree with the witch-hunt the Muslims are suffering now in most of the world because of the ideology of a few? How do you feel about the generalisation of all Muslims? Or the travel ban in the US?
Isn't it a result of pure ignorance, misinterpretation and misinformation?
I think it ring bells with Europeans and the generalisation that they "all steal jobs" and "get benefits".
If anything these two parallels teaches us all how important is to seek different media outlets to get slightly closer to the truth and how it is our responsibility to find, seek and get as much information to formulate our own ideas.
Sorry for the long post.
Best of luck
Totally agree with you.

ei
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by ei » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:16 am

prforyou wrote:Apart from failed historical arguments that have been proposed here (even the English language evolved from the language of the Saxons and Danish tribes), unfortunately Brexit has closed the wrong borders. The source of (home-grown) terrorism in the UK is that of Commonwealth migration (similar to that in France due to its colonial history with North Africa), as yesterday's events have shown again.
+1

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by Casa » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:56 am

ei wrote:
prforyou wrote:Apart from failed historical arguments that have been proposed here (even the English language evolved from the language of the Saxons and Danish tribes), unfortunately Brexit has closed the wrong borders. The source of (home-grown) terrorism in the UK is that of Commonwealth migration (similar to that in France due to its colonial history with North Africa), as yesterday's events have shown again.
+1
Not that simple. In this case the terrorist Adrian Russell Ajao was born in Kent and grew up in Sussex.
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by Obie » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:08 pm

prforyou wrote:Apart from failed historical arguments that have been proposed here (even the English language evolved from the language of the Saxons and Danish tribes), unfortunately Brexit has closed the wrong borders. The source of (home-grown) terrorism in the UK is that of Commonwealth migration (similar to that in France due to its colonial history with North Africa), as yesterday's events have shown again.
Important to note that the people who carry out these atrocities from 7/7 to this recent ones, are not migrant, but British Citizen, people who were born here, went to same nursery , primary and secondary schools with their compatriot, enjoyed the winter cold and the summer warmth with their compatriots, in this country.



They are to all intents and purpose British, unless of course Britishness is defined by the colour of a person's skin, I am of the view that these people are British in every sense of the word.

The appear to feel detached or ostracised by their nation. The government needs to examine the reasons why they are and find means of engaging these people.

Mr Masood is a person of dual heritage, born of a Caucasian woman, from a middle class background, has degree in Economics. He did not come from the Middle East or the former commonwealth . He was an home grown person.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by Wise » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:20 pm

Obei, in addition to your last paragraph.

That was the reason why it takes until when the PM make speech on the incident before we are able to know you committed the evil act. Otherwise all these so call useless news papers would have say something totally different in paper's headline.
It is really good to help and everyone deserve to be respected in life. Good luck.

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by Casa » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:31 pm

Wise wrote:Obei, in addition to your last paragraph.

That was the reason why it takes until when the PM make speech on the incident before we are able to know you committed the evil act. Otherwise all these so call useless news papers would have say something totally different in paper's headline.
You may want to rephrase your post. :idea:
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by Obie » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:02 pm

Well i guess Mrs May and her guards were busy taking cover in the House of Commons. I saw her on a sky video trying to find an hiding place like a headless chicken. I guess giving a speech was the last on her list of priorities.

Surprising how coward she can be. After seeing her on video doing immigration raid in Slough and going through that pakistan woman's properties, and all her tough talk on brexit, and vilification of Immigrant, it is surprising how a dead mentally distrub man can scare Mrs May so much.
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by secret.simon » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:46 pm

I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by mkhan2525 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:25 pm

I guess Mrs May was never cut out to be PM, infact she has proven to be one of the worst choices to lead the country. Her track record as Home secretary was appaling to say the least. We should have just stuck with Cameron.

I hope Brexit will damage her and her partys chance of wining the next election.

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by secret.simon » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:14 am

mkhan2525 wrote:I hope Brexit will damage her and her partys chance of wining the next election.
Like Margaret Thatcher, she may be polarising, but like her, she is also a case of TINA (There Is No Alternative).

Neither Corbyn nor Farron nor Farage inspire any confidence. By definition (in the title of her party's name), Nicola Sturgeon rules herself out as Prime Minister for the UK. Ruth Davidson of the Scottish Conservatives could be a possible contender, but is likely to sit out the Brexit storm.

As regards whether she was cut out to be PM, well, her party leads in the opinion polls by a margin of at least 10% (with upto 19% in one poll). So, a significant number of people do think that she *is* the best alternative for Prime Minister. A ComRes opinion poll found that most people thought that Theresa May is more in touch with “ordinary British people” than her predecessor David Cameron.

She survived the Home Office with one of the longest tenures on record. The Home Office is the graveyard of ministerial ambition. The Home Secretary has to deal with immigration (a toxic topic), the police (the crime statistics, etc) and until 2005, the prisons and judiciary. That she survived six years in that role is in itself a testament to her ability to manage a toxic mix of subjects.
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by mkhan2525 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:47 pm

secret.simon wrote:
mkhan2525 wrote:I hope Brexit will damage her and her partys chance of wining the next election.
Like Margaret Thatcher, she may be polarising, but like her, she is also a case of TINA (There Is No Alternative).

Neither Corbyn nor Farron nor Farage inspire any confidence. By definition (in the title of her party's name), Nicola Sturgeon rules herself out as Prime Minister for the UK. Ruth Davidson of the Scottish Conservatives could be a possible contender, but is likely to sit out the Brexit storm.

As regards whether she was cut out to be PM, well, her party leads in the opinion polls by a margin of at least 10% (with upto 19% in one poll). So, a significant number of people do think that she *is* the best alternative for Prime Minister. A ComRes opinion poll found that most people thought that Theresa May is more in touch with “ordinary British people” than her predecessor David Cameron.

She survived the Home Office with one of the longest tenures on record. The Home Office is the graveyard of ministerial ambition. The Home Secretary has to deal with immigration (a toxic topic), the police (the crime statistics, etc) and until 2005, the prisons and judiciary. That she survived six years in that role is in itself a testament to her ability to manage a toxic mix of subjects.
If a general election were to be held tomorrow the Tory party is very likely to win although polls have been known to be incorrect at times. Contrast this period of time to that of Autumn 2018 when the so called "have your cake and eat it" deal doesn't materialise and they leave without a deal, public opnion
will shift against the party. At that point the public will look for alternatives and they will not necessarily look at who is delivering the alterative therefore I wouldn't rule out a possibility of another Labour government under Corbyn or a Labour coaltion of some sort with the Lib Dems perhaps.

As for her ability and achivements during her six year reign as Home Secretary, I will leave others to judge for themeselves.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/t ... assuring/#

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ry-tell-us

https://reaction.life/theresa-may-faile ... choice-pm/

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by rooibos » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:18 pm

Obie wrote:, it is surprising how a dead mentally distrub man can scare Mrs May so much.
Don't be so harsh on Boris Johnson!

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by secret.simon » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:54 pm

Reviving this thread to link to this interesting piece by Janan Ganesh of the FT on Theresa May.
May is the most culturally conservative leader since Thatcher wrote:She is a believer in things. She has her own view of the world and it comes, if not from scripture, then at least from the Anglican cast of mind.

She favours a gentle society over a dynamic one, views the market with the suspicion of a mild social democrat and takes nationhood more seriously than the universalist end of Christianity tends to. None of these beliefs are extreme but they are held with enough strength to drive the government.
...
This is bitter news for the liberal-minded but Britain has its most culturally conservative leader since at least Margaret Thatcher and, given the Tory’s enthusiasm for markets, perhaps before her, too.
...
To see this government’s work as the sum of outside pressures is to patronise and exonerate Mrs May all at once. It is worse than you think. She believes in it.
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by ZeePrime » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:38 pm

Ah! These Shrodinger EU expats.
At the same time stealing jobs and claiming for benefits...

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by CR001 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:52 pm

ZeePrime wrote:Ah! These Shrodinger EU expats.
At the same time stealing jobs and claiming for benefits...
Suggest see point 1 & 4 in the forum T&Cs here (click) and post appropriately.
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by AuntieBrexit » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:00 pm

First question on flag - Why can I not pick a Saltire for Scotland but you have Wales, Isle Man etc

On Brexit it would be nice to have some recognition that the Black and White approach to this vote doesn't work when arguing- the people voted.

People voted to leave for many different reasons based on very poor quality information. Do we really intend to base our future in Europe on a marginal result in an advisory election. A vote in which 16 to 18 year olds were denied the vote.

I doubt if many leavers voted for the hard Brexit coming at us fast.

I am fortunate in having dual nationality and will still retain my rights as an EU citizen. It is the next generation I feel sorry for. They will grow up in a narrow minded right wing isolated backward nation - whatever remains of the U.K. When Ireland is unified and Scotland achieves Independence.

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by Obie » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:36 pm

Your point is interesting on Brexit. I believe both the long and short time implications is going to be extremely horrific.

The prospect of Britain being in a state of emergency in slightly under 8 months, and shortages of food and medicine is difficult to comprehend, and I do hope remainers do not have to suffer the consequences, as it will be wholly unfair.

My views on the people who caused us this mess has evolved over the last 26 months. I use to think all Brexiteer are bad people. But it is clear that this is not necessarily always the case. However I believe all bad and undesirable people voted for brexit . I never thought I will get to speak with Brexiteers, but having met few recently, I got to realise that not all are bad people who set out to cause their nation harm, and some are genuinely remorseful for their actions. I spoke to a lady who said she felt so guilty about her vote, that in the event of food shortage, she will give her food to a remainer.

When I read Borris Johnson article on muslim women, the evilness and hate in Brexiteer is made clear to me. It is clear that most Brexiteer politicians strive and thrive on hate.

One can only hope for the best, but I see little light at the end of the tunnel for UK.
People are starting to come round, but it is little too late, the Brexiteers will not permit people's vote to clear this mess, irrespective of the changes in public opinion.
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by Russell59 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:54 am

The people of the UK have voted and they have voted to leave the EU. Out means out and that is the end of the Argument,the Remoaners should accept the outcome and stop Scaremongering.The World as we know it will not end Life will go on.

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by secret.simon » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:20 pm

Article on the Politico website on why the Brexit vote has caused such anger and resentment on the Remain side.
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by Russell59 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:20 pm

Very interesting Article.my message to the remainiacs...keep Calm and Carry on.

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by Obie » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:26 pm

I wonder if you will be saying this, when food runs out of the shelves at the supermarket, flights are grounds, Hospital are brought to a stand still, Gridlock at the M20, and when minister scramble and rush to declare a state of emergency.

Polling data indicates that even Brexiteers are getting concerned, and rightly so. Promises were made to folks in the UK, which has clearly not materialised, and that is one fact that Brexiteers and Remainers are united in agreement on.
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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by Russell59 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:03 am

Project Fear is Alive and well i see.I seem to recall that before the UK was covertly and Illegally enlisted as a Vassal State of the 4th Reich,that we did very well on our own and will continue to do so once we have severed ties with Brussels.All the big German Car makers are desperate to carry on selling their product to the UK and our Technology and expertise will still remain in demand.As for there being a Famine..i think not,we have thriving Agriculture and Farming in this Country and our produce is in High Demand across Europe.It will be interesting to see what becomes of the EUs meddling in the Ukraine and what is going to happen in Italy with the rise of the Anti Eu feeling and the election of anti Eu Politicians.Greece will also be worth watching as it will almost certainly default on its bail out re payments,and i can see the Greeks simply pulling the plug on the EU and leaving..watch this space.

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by rooibos » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:12 am

Russell hurt with the EU because Belgium didn't give his Russian wife a visa.

MOD EDIT: Language amended to make it more family-friendly. Please keep the expressive language in check.

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Re: why I voted for brexit

Post by alterhase58 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:48 am

rooibos wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:12 am
Russell hurt with the EU because Belgium didn't give his Russian wife a visa.

MOD EDIT: Language amended to make it more family-friendly. Please keep the expressive language in check.
I would prefer that this board doesn't get taken over by the kind of rhetoric posted.
UK was covertly and Illegally enlisted as a Vassal State of the 4th Reich
This is not even worth spending time on.
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