why I voted for brexit

ZeePrime wrote:Ah! These Shrodinger EU expats.
At the same time stealing jobs and claiming for benefits...

Suggest see point 1 & 4 in the forum T&Cs here (click) and post appropriately.

First question on flag - Why can I not pick a Saltire for Scotland but you have Wales, Isle Man etc

On Brexit it would be nice to have some recognition that the Black and White approach to this vote doesn't work when arguing- the people voted.

People voted to leave for many different reasons based on very poor quality information. Do we really intend to base our future in Europe on a marginal result in an advisory election. A vote in which 16 to 18 year olds were denied the vote.

I doubt if many leavers voted for the hard Brexit coming at us fast.

I am fortunate in having dual nationality and will still retain my rights as an EU citizen. It is the next generation I feel sorry for. They will grow up in a narrow minded right wing isolated backward nation - whatever remains of the U.K. When Ireland is unified and Scotland achieves Independence.

Your point is interesting on Brexit. I believe both the long and short time implications is going to be extremely horrific.

The prospect of Britain being in a state of emergency in slightly under 8 months, and shortages of food and medicine is difficult to comprehend, and I do hope remainers do not have to suffer the consequences, as it will be wholly unfair.

My views on the people who caused us this mess has evolved over the last 26 months. I use to think all Brexiteer are bad people. But it is clear that this is not necessarily always the case. However I believe all bad and undesirable people voted for brexit . I never thought I will get to speak with Brexiteers, but having met few recently, I got to realise that not all are bad people who set out to cause their nation harm, and some are genuinely remorseful for their actions. I spoke to a lady who said she felt so guilty about her vote, that in the event of food shortage, she will give her food to a remainer.

When I read Borris Johnson article on muslim women, the evilness and hate in Brexiteer is made clear to me. It is clear that most Brexiteer politicians strive and thrive on hate.

One can only hope for the best, but I see little light at the end of the tunnel for UK.
People are starting to come round, but it is little too late, the Brexiteers will not permit people's vote to clear this mess, irrespective of the changes in public opinion.

The people of the UK have voted and they have voted to leave the EU. Out means out and that is the end of the Argument,the Remoaners should accept the outcome and stop Scaremongering.The World as we know it will not end Life will go on.

Article on the Politico website on why the Brexit vote has caused such anger and resentment on the Remain side.

Very interesting Article.my message to the remainiacs...keep Calm and Carry on.

I wonder if you will be saying this, when food runs out of the shelves at the supermarket, flights are grounds, Hospital are brought to a stand still, Gridlock at the M20, and when minister scramble and rush to declare a state of emergency.

Polling data indicates that even Brexiteers are getting concerned, and rightly so. Promises were made to folks in the UK, which has clearly not materialised, and that is one fact that Brexiteers and Remainers are united in agreement on.

Project Fear is Alive and well i see.I seem to recall that before the UK was covertly and Illegally enlisted as a Vassal State of the 4th Reich,that we did very well on our own and will continue to do so once we have severed ties with Brussels.All the big German Car makers are desperate to carry on selling their product to the UK and our Technology and expertise will still remain in demand.As for there being a Famine..i think not,we have thriving Agriculture and Farming in this Country and our produce is in High Demand across Europe.It will be interesting to see what becomes of the EUs meddling in the Ukraine and what is going to happen in Italy with the rise of the Anti Eu feeling and the election of anti Eu Politicians.Greece will also be worth watching as it will almost certainly default on its bail out re payments,and i can see the Greeks simply pulling the plug on the EU and leaving..watch this space.

Russell hurt with the EU because Belgium didn't give his Russian wife a visa.

MOD EDIT: Language amended to make it more family-friendly. Please keep the expressive language in check.

rooibos wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:12 am

Russell hurt with the EU because Belgium didn't give his Russian wife a visa.

MOD EDIT: Language amended to make it more family-friendly. Please keep the expressive language in check.

I would prefer that this board doesn't get taken over by the kind of rhetoric posted.

UK was covertly and Illegally enlisted as a Vassal State of the 4th Reich

This is not even worth spending time on.

Actually my Wife obtained Her Visa.Before you pass serious comment on the Nefarious Agenda of the Eu i suggest you carry out your own research in to the Formation and Aims of the EU and simply do not blindly accept the anti Brexit outpourings of the MSM..The fact of the Matter is that the UK is leaving the Federal State of Europe deal or no deal.

Russell59 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:32 pm

...........The fact of the Matter is that the UK is leaving the Federal State of Europe deal or no deal.

And if its the latter then we are all stuffed!

Many did vote to Leave simply on the basis of immigration and FoM. Once again we see Westminster not doing what it is empowered to do and manage immigration.

Be it illegal immigrants who later squeal about wanting to become legal or FoM immigrants who become a burden on the State. The latter can be ejected after a number of months if they do necome a burden. The former is what it is. These illegals want to cheat, lie, carry out illegal deeds, use the NHS, work under the radar and dont pay taxes then expect a sympathetic hearing to become legal. Again, Westminster does precious little to eject these people.

This country is heading for the skids.......

It's not all doom and gloom. At least we know that No Deal Hard Brexit will be good for Putin! Dasvidaniya!

Worth reflecting on this Twitter thread by a Remainer and a former SNP Minister/MSP.

Also worth looking at whether you have access (via work or studies) to the book recommended in that Twitter thread: Losers' Consent: Elections and Democratic Legitimacy.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:56 am

Worth reflecting on this Twitter thread by a Remainer and a former SNP Minister/MSP.

Also worth looking at whether you have access (via work or studies) to the book recommended in that Twitter thread: Losers' Consent: Elections and Democratic Legitimacy.

I do not believe this book can effectively address the Brexit situation. In the general sense of things i accept its premise in some respect, but clearly i cannot accept this 2005 publish book in the context of Brexit.

Brexit is an unmitigated disaster, the likes of which the world has never seen. Hard Brexit is not like a general election which can be changed in 5 years. The disaster of Brexit is likely to affect generations of people to come.

Knowing now that there were campaign finance violations by the leave side, the interference of Russia and other dark forces.

I do believe Brits should demand an opportunity to seek and exit from Brexit.

17 Million People voted to leave the EU,it was a democratic election and the result is final...The people have spoken and their wishes will be respected.On the Ballot Form the question was simple and easy to understand..do you wish to leave or remain in the EU.

A vote swayed in the final week by illegal major cash injections that caused two of the major Leave-side organisations to be heavily fined for breaching elwctoral law is hardly democratic. We can't proceed with Brexit based on the results of an advisory referendum with only a 4% margin. Even a hard Brexiteer like Farage stated as such.

The people voted in 2016 based on a theory. Voting based on facts on paper is more democratic than voting on a theory.

Based also on what we saw in the Commons debate this week - what is being delivered is clearly not what the people voted for. If we get a deal that people don't want, then it's not the will of the people.

A final say on whether to go for a hard Brexit, a no-deal Brexit or Remain is the only democratic way forward - if Brexit wins again ensuring there are no illegal irregularities and based on facts - so be it.

Russell59 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:51 am

17 Million People voted to leave the EU,it was a democratic election and the result is final...

It is a strange argument to say a vote "is final" in any democracy. Surely a democracy is one in which the electorate are not denied a vote. Brexiters just seem to employ the claim it is anti-democratic as they want to seal the leave vote in aspic. The actuality of Brexit is so different from the promises made and the evidence now available is so much more comprehensive and detailed.

I would refer you to a certain MP by the name of David Davis who said in 2012 “If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.”

There were 2 questions on the Voting Form Do you want to Leave or Remain in the EU ,you made your choice and ticked the Box.The Govt said that it would implement the final decision.Nothing about a Deal or a Second referendum.I am afraid that the remoaners must accept the fact that they lost the vote and that the UK will be leaving the EU .Simple really.

Russell59 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:59 pm

There were 2 questions on the Voting Form Do you want to Leave or Remain in the EU ,you made your choice and ticked the Box.The Govt said that it would implement the final decision.Nothing about a Deal or a Second referendum.I am afraid that the remoaners must accept the fact that they lost the vote and that the UK will be leaving the EU .Simple really.

A very simplistic view.

You fail to mention or even allude to the misleading (lies?) statements made. Think Big Red Bus.....

However, what did seem to escape the voting populace was those on the Leave side had no means of fullfiling their proposals. They were not government, therefore could almost say what ever they wanted in the full knowledge they had no requirement to make it work.

One of the major points during the Ref was immigration and Freedom of Movement. Quite simply the electorate was duped during the campaign. Moreover, not only duped during the campaign but duped for many many years before. For example, almost no mention was made of UK Govt having the powers to eject those who had entered the country under FoM when those same people became a financial burden on the UK.

Put simply, and admitted recently by a senior Tory politician, the political leaders at WM got it wrong and have persistantly let the people down.

Russell59 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:51 am

17 Million People voted to leave the EU,it was a democratic election and the result is final...The people have spoken and their wishes will be respected.On the Ballot Form the question was simple and easy to understand..do you wish to leave or remain in the EU.

A vote that was marred by lies and fraud. A campaign which is infested by dirty dealer and crooks, one of whom is facing a criminal Probe.

Britain urgently needs an exit from Brexit, to deal with this calamitous event. The whole country and political is in shamble, i have never seen a mess like this.

Long live people vote.

Only a people's vote can atone the UK of the curse and sins of Brexit. Brexit has essentially brought the UK to it knees. Any one who cannot see that needs to have their heads checked. They are clearly a sandwich short of a picnic.

Russell59 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:59 pm

There were 2 questions on the Voting Form Do you want to Leave or Remain in the EU ,you made your choice and ticked the Box.The Govt said that it would implement the final decision.Nothing about a Deal or a Second referendum.I am afraid that the remoaners must accept the fact that they lost the vote and that the UK will be leaving the EU .Simple really.

Troll!

Obie wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:06 pm

A vote that was marred by lies and fraud. A campaign which is infested by dirty dealer and crooks, one of whom is facing a criminal Probe.

Britain urgently needs an exit from Brexit, to deal with this calamitous event. The whole country and political is in shamble, i have never seen a mess like this.

Absolutely - cheating, foreign interference, lying, an incompetent regulator, failure to adhere to our Venice Convention commitments.

This has been a fraud on democracy, and our credibility in the international arena is shot.

If this referendum had taken place in an African country - the West would be crying foul and demanding that the fraudulent result be set aside.

An African country, Kenya, set aside its referendum result after its Supreme Court ruled it hadn't been conducted in accordance with the Constitution.

Cambridge Analytica was one of the common denominators of the Kenyan and UK votes. A supposedly 'developing' country was able to do the right thing, but our country seems to insist being blind to the fact that the referendum vote wasn't democratic and a fresh vote needs to be held, asking the population to choose between no deal, whatever deal this government agrees (if any) and remaining.

The vote needs to be-run in a democratic manner, overseen by a competent independent body able to ensure adherence to Electoral Law and proper regulation of political finance.

Crying 'you won, get over it' just doesn't cut it in a democratic society. 16.1Mil voters, 750 000 marchers and 1Mil signatories are demanding a democratic Final Say.

After all - the world's most democratic countries routinely hold confirmatory referendums. Perhaps we should look at Ireland to see how to properly run a referendum of such importance.

The People have voted and their choice was to leave and that is the final word.

Russell59 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:09 am

The People have voted and their choice was to leave and that is the final word.

Regardless of the merits or demerits of Brexit,
a) things that start with "The People" tend to be tyrannical/dictatorial (cf the People's Democratic Republic of China, etc, though thankfully the People's Post Office has not gone down that route) and it may be better to phrase it in other ways.
b) there is no reason to suppose that "that is the final word", for at least five reasons.

i) One does not always get what one wishes. One needs to negotiate, and in this case, we are negotiating from a position of weakness (we are decidedly smaller than the EU27 in economic terms).
ii) People change. Minds can be changed. That is the whole basis of any democratic system, that people can and do change minds. Otherwise, one election per generation is all that is needed.
iii) The electorate does change and has changed, not only with births and deaths, but with many formerly EEA citizens (without a vote) getting British citizenship and therefore the vote.
iv) "Events, dear boy, events". Events outside Brexit may have an impact on how Brexit occurs and if the end result is far from what was voted for, it is possible that people will change their mind. It would then be unfair to not stop a process started by the people's will.
v) There is many a slip betwixt cup and lip.

Having said that, I am surprised that the Survation poll found that 46% of the UK still wants Brexit, given what we now know about how difficult Brexit would be, the impact on jobs, etc. If with such full knowledge of the effect of Brexit, 46% of the country still want Brexit, then Remainers have to ask why and attempt to address the concerns of the 46%.

As an aside, a few posts on Twitter suggest that the EU will not support a second referendum/People's Vote. The EU27 want Brexit to be done and dusted, so that they can focus on their other issues (populism within the EU27, Poland and Hungary, the Italian budget, etc). It seems that they will tell the Remainers that the deal will be a take-it-or-leave-it deal. There is essentially now way back now, even from the EU's side.