Tier 4 or ILR - kindly help

Hello Seniors,

I'm confused as to which section I should post this query. Apologies if its in the wrong section

I am currently on Tier 2 Visa . I am applying for ILR for myself and my 2 dependents ( age 19 and 15 next week ).

Issue:

We have got unconditional offer letter from a university for my 19 yr old to start his bachelor degree from 2nd week of Sept 2020.

The university is suggesting we dont apply for ILR and instead apply for tier 4 visa as we cant apply for 2 visas together.

Query:

1 - Can my son start his university without any issues whilst we have our application for ILR with UK Visas

2- Can the university stop my son from starting the university saying our son doesnt have tier 4 visa now and that he has to apply for one

3- Can we say the university that until our ILR application is processed ( we applying next week by standard service ) our visa rights will remain same and that way the university cant stop my son in starting the university degree course next month

can you please help clarify

Thanks,
newuser79

It is really important to note that if he applies for a tier 4 student visa, he will NOT be eligible to apply for ILR on SET(O) as a tier 2 dependent with the rest of the family.

It is not mandatory to hold a tier 4 visa to study if a person holds another dependent visa.

Thank you CR001 for your super fast reply. I really appreciate your quick response and help.

Glad to know we dont need Tier 4 visa for my son to start his degree. I will let the University know that I am certain my son can start the university as a tier 2 dependent. we will proceed with our ILR end of this month.

University said only downside is he will start as a international student and his fees will be considered as an international student which is very high.

another killer blow is they say my son needs to pay international fees for the full duration of his degree given he starts as an international student.

I really hope and pray there is a way for us. I have asked multiple queries on this forum which I completely trust. I dont know what I would have done without the help of this forum and helpful people like you and other seniors who help without any expectation.

Sincerely,
newuser79

An ILR holder pays home fees whilst a Tier 2 holder pays international fees, you might want to consider deferring your dependent's entry into HE to 2021 when they will get home fee status.

Hi, Unfortunately my son already took a gap year

We wanted to go for super priority last week of August 2020- that was our plan until covid spoilt everything!

thanks,

newuser79

JohndoesUK wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:30 am

An ILR holder pays home fees ... you might want to consider deferring your dependent's entry into HE to 2021 when they will get home fee status.

It's not just about having ILR. He also would need to meet the residence requirement. The criteria for this vary between Scotland and the rest of the UK.

Alternatively, it is also possible he is a home fee payer already under the Long Residence category.

More details:
See https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... the-basics

Thanks for your reply.

we dont qualify for any of the options. I see there is no way to become a home student midway once my son starts as an international student

I wish this priority service starts in the next 2 weeks which will resolve all my issues

Fingers crossed!

Thanks,
Newuser79

CR001 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:21 am

It is really important to note that if he applies for a tier 4 student visa, he will NOT be eligible to apply for ILR on SET(O) as a tier 2 dependent with the rest of the family.

It is not mandatory to hold a tier 4 visa to study if a person holds another dependent visa.

Dear All,

Good Morning. I had a meeting with the University.

They are asking me evidence that being on a Tier 2 dependent visa my son can start his university. Its very strange as they should know this. I checked the guidance but couldnt find

Is there a link or a document I can share with the university. Kindly help. If I share the right evidence that its not mandatory to hold a tier 4 visa to study if a person holds another dependent visa they will accept my son.

second query:

This year I will manage to pay his international fees. I have arranged with my bank. For second year will he be able to get student finance being a ILR holder. or would they say it should have been got from year 1. any evidence on this please aswell

Many Thanks for your time again!!
Newuser79

newuser79 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:16 am

Is there a link or a document I can share with the university. Kindly help. If I share the right evidence that its not mandatory to hold a tier 4 visa to study if a person holds another dependent visa they will accept my son.

This is a bizarre request, and probably needs asking again to someone with a brain, or just more senior. Universities know very well that anyone with any type of visa can study if they wish, although some visas do restrict study in some ways (Tier 4, short-term student, standard visitor). I am sure the university has many students on many different types of visa.

If they really want to see evidence that the conditions of a PBS Dependant do not restrict or prohibit study (which I think is completely unreasonable to ask anyway), you can show them paragraph 319I(b) of the immigration rules which lists what is restricted or prohibited for a PBS Dependant, and point out that there is no mention of a restriction or prohibition on study:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... ly-members

You can also show them the PBS Dependants Policy Guidance, paragraphs 88-81 which confirms that the only restriction on study for a PBS Dependant is that someone may need an ATAS certificate for certain courses:

Restriction on study

80. If you are 18 or over at the time of your application, or will turn 18 during your leave you need to apply for an Academic Technology Approval Scheme (ATAS) certificate if you wish to undertake study or research which is one of the following:
i. a Doctorate or Master’s degree by research in one of the disciplines listed in paragraph 1 of Appendix 6 of the Immigration Rules, or
ii. a taught Master’s degree or other postgraduate qualification in one of the disciplines listed in paragraph 2 of Appendix 6 of the Immigration Rules, or
iii. a period of study or research in one of the disciplines listed in paragraphs 1 or 2 of Appendix 6 of the Immigration Rules at an institution of higher education where this forms part of an overseas postgraduate qualification.

81. If you are unsure whether this applies to the course of study you wish to take please go to:
www.gov.uk/find-out-if-you-require-an-atas-certificate

newuser79 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:16 am

For second year will he be able to get student finance being a ILR holder. or would they say it should have been got from year 1. any evidence on this please aswell

Gaining ILR after the start of the course will not in itself make him a "home" fee payer or make him eligible for student financial support. The requirement to be settled must be met at the start of the course.

You do not say which country he is studying in, but for England see

Fees:
https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... layer-6082 > 1. Those who are 'settled' in the UK and meet the main resident requirements

Student support:
https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... layer-6193 > 1. Settled status and living in the UK and Islands

See also
https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... layer-3834, especially

Gaining Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR), and/or acquiring three years' ordinary residence in the UK, part-way through a course will not change your fee status.

Dear Sah10406,

Many thanks indeed for your reply. It really helps

Its indeed a bizarre request- thats why I am trying to get the evidence to share with the university.

He is currently 19 and will start his Bachelor degree in a University based in England.

I will provide the details as per your reply and ask them to check for themselves. 319I(b) - is the paragraph below you mentioned. I couldnt find 319I(b) so wanted to double check.

(1) the relevant Points Based System Migrant must be applying for entry clearance, leave to enter, or leave to remain, to undertake a full-time course of study that is longer than six months and either:
(a) have entry clearance, leave to enter, or leave to remain as a Tier 4 (General) Student or as a student to undertake a full-time course of study longer than six months; or
(b) have last had entry clearance, leave to enter, or leave to remain within the three months preceding the application as a Tier 4 (General) Student or as a student to undertake a full-time course of study longer than six months; and

second evidence - paragraph 80-81. He doesnt need ATAS thankfully.

On my second query:

I understand he cant become a home student midway of his 3 year degree.

However my query was to know if my son can take student finance for his year 2 i.e in Sept 2021. Will he be allowed to apply for student finance in Sept 2021 as he will have his ILR.

my worry is what if they say you started your degree as an international student and you woudlnt be getting student finance?

Thanks again
newuser79

newuser79 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:02 pm

I couldnt find 319I(b) so wanted to double check.

The heading is 319I. Period and conditions of grant.

newuser79 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:02 pm

I understand he cant become a home student midway of his 3 year degree.

However my query was to know if my son can take student finance for his year 2 i.e in Sept 2021. Will he be allowed to apply for student finance in Sept 2021 as he will have his ILR.

No. The eligibility for student support is the same as for home fees. The student must be settled on the first day of the first academic year

newuser79 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:02 pm

my worry is what if they say you started your degree as an international student and you woudlnt be getting student finance?

That will be correct in this case because of the requirement to be settled on the first day of the first academic year.

Thanks for your reply

But thats terrible! I can always say first year i managed to pay fees with my savings

from year 2 onwards i would like to get student finance? wouldnt that help? please let me know

Before I saw your reply i spoke to student finance and they said its allowed. I am sure they confused me

Thanks!

newuser79 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:15 am

But thats terrible! I can always say first year i managed to pay fees with my savings

It has always been so. Student Financial Support is in place to support those paying home fees. Hence the eligibility is the same.

newuser79 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:15 am

from year 2 onwards i would like to get student finance? wouldnt that help? please let me know

Again, no. Please check again the link to the eligibility for student support that I posted Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:37 am.

1. England: Settled status and living in the UK and Islands

If you satisfy all the conditions under this category, you will be eligible for full Student Support. To be eligible:

(a) you must be settled in the UK on the first day of the first academic year of the course; and

(b) on the first day of the first academic year of the course you must be ordinarily resident in England; and

(c) you must also have been ordinarily resident in the UK and Islands for the full three-year period before the first day of the first academic year of the course, for example if your course begins in October 2017, you must have been ordinarily resident in the UK and Islands from 1 September 2014 to 31 August 2017; and

(d) the main purpose for your residence in the UK and Islands must not have been to receive full-time education during any part of the three-year period.

If he starts the course this year, he will always fall at the first hurdle (a), because he was not settled on 1 September 2020.

newuser79 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:15 am

Before I saw your reply i spoke to student finance and they said its allowed. I am sure they confused me

They are wrong, I'm afraid. They often are. Those of us who work in higher education spend a lot of time picking up the pieces for students who were misinformed by Student Finance England about their eligiblity for student support. You might want to speak to them again and double-check which category of eligiibility they think he meets. If it is this main category for settled people, ask them how he can meet the requirement to be settled on the first day of the first academic year (1 September 2020) if he for sure will not become settled until after that date.

Thanks again for clarity. You have been extremely helpful!!

Regards,
Newuser79