Rea2 or PR or..

Hello everyone . It's the first time I post something here although I fellow it as much as the premiere league ;

I am getting ready to apply for EEA4 pr and need some help please .
Iam non eu national my wife is Irish/British national we have two daughters aged 6 and 4 both British passport holder bases on their mother being British . We choose EEA route based on my wife being Irish to regularise my situation rather than British application ( please don't ask why ; it's just more complicated) .

Problem number 1 :
2011 apply for EEA 2 for both of us , we received residence card for me ( 5 years)
My wife they sent her something difference a blue card inside is residence document with no renewal date , even though we submitted her Irish passport but they did not put the residence card in it. Contrary to my passport they stamped it with rc 5 years .
Is that mean that my wife doesn't have to apply now for EEA3 ??!while me for EEA4 ??:
I always though that was the procedure after 5 years of rc . Or I am missing something???

Number 2 problem :
when we applied for RC . We did it on her being self sufficient and me not working as I couldn't ( expired visa) obviously after I received COA with right to work I straight away start working and never stopped since than we can even say that I am the non Eu partner and the sponsor and no need for CSI ( we had it than we cancelled it after I start working) was that I wise move that we did ??? Am I right that applying for EEA4 will be me the sponsor ( p60 for me all those 5 years ) ???
does that work or you think that a problem ??? for her that she didn't work )
For her defence she was hospitalise on many occasion due toblood clots she had after giving birth also she is taking care of the babies so couldn't work )

Number 3 problem
Benefits
I will cut it short we do receive child tax credit for both of my kids and children benefits . Was that wrong ??

Number 4 problem
biometric on my previous edit application to the home office ( not the European route ., application based on my wife being British .. Of course they refuse it on many occasion ) I did give my biometric all I remember is the year and the place ( Croydon ) do I have to do it again or they already do and what should I do in that case )

This is why I do post so often I don't know how to be brief and clear . I made a lot of effort this basically all my case with all the details please help

I truly appreciate the help and your time
Thank you

Amine-medini wrote:Hello everyone . It's the first time I post something here although I fellow it as much as the premiere league ;

I am getting ready to apply for EEA4 pr and need some help please .
I am non eu national my wife is Irish/British national we have two daughters aged 6 and 4 both British passport holder bases on their mother being British . We choose EEA route based on my wife being Irish to regularise my situation ...

Problem number 1 :
2011 apply for EEA 2 for both of us , we received residence card for me ( 5 years)
My wife they sent her something difference a blue card inside is residence document with no renewal date ,
...
Or I am missing something???

Number 2 problem :
when we applied for RC . We did it on her being self sufficient and me not working as I couldn't ( expired visa) obviously after I received COA with right to work I straight away start working and never stopped since than we can even say that I am the non Eu partner and the sponsor and no need for CSI ( we had it than we cancelled it after I start working) was that I wise move that we did ??? Am I right that applying for EEA4 will be me the sponsor ( p60 for me all those 5 years ) ???
does that work or you think that a problem ??? for her that she didn't work )
For her defence she was hospitalise on many occasion due toblood clots she had after giving birth also she is taking care of the babies so couldn't work )

Number 3 problem
Benefits
I will cut it short we do receive child tax credit for both of my kids and children benefits . Was that wrong ??

Number 4 problem
biometric
...

This is why I do post so often I don't know how to be brief and clear . I made a lot of effort this basically all my case with all the details please help

I truly appreciate the help and your time
Thank you

Good that you had the foresight to apply for your RC (& prior to 2012)
- that should ensure you can use the McCarthy transitional arrangement such that your wife is treated as an EEA national (& not as a BC);
all assuming you are based in & applying from UK.

1) Not entirely sure what you mean but an EEA national would receive a residence certificate, if they applied at all; (not a residence card).
That could account for the difference.

2) It is the EEA national who has to exercise treaty rights continuously for 5 years in 1 or more categories of qualified person (qp);
(eg as a worker, self-employed, self-sufficient - with CSI, etc).

What you did/do as a non EEA dependent family member is immaterial (in immigration terms), as long as its legal ofcourse.

All you as a dependent really have to do is prove your id, your relationship & your residency in the country;
it is your sponsor, exercising rights, that gets you your confirmation of PR.
(Of course wife doesn't need PR herself due to the special circumstances of dual nationality).

However to be classed as self-sufficient your wife would have needed CSI (which also covered you as dependent) & to show she was not posing a burden on the state social assistance system.

CSI cover is not needed to extend to cover your children who are British.

3) My understanding is means-tested benefits are ok in worker category of qp at least.
In self-sufficient category that may be a problem.

4) New rules now. Non EEA applicants will enrol biometrics when applying for confirmation of PR.

Based on your stated circumstances, you will need to dig a little deeper into problem 2 & possibly 3 to determine if your spouse/sponsor has been exercising treaty rights continuously.

Something else to consider - it may be a bit of a longshot ...
If your wife was working at all before the health problems came up she may be able to retain her status as a worker on the grounds of taking medical leave.
This will need full documentation from doctor & hospital specialist/s & etc.
(Benefit: it removes the need to demonstrate CSI).

Good luck.

Thank you very much
I read carefully what you said
My wife received a residence documentation in May 2011 , with no renewal date on it , it's a blue card which u can fold in 3 , dies that mean she doesn't need to apply further ??EEA3 ??

Is my p60 relevant at all in the application ,
Husband work wife looking after young children all those 5 years it's just happened to be the wife is the sponsor
So how can we demonstrate the she has been exerting her treaty right in the UK ,

Amine-medini wrote:Thank you very much
I read carefully what you said
My wife received a residence documentation in May 2011 , with no renewal date on it , it's a blue card which u can fold in 3 , dies that mean she doesn't need to apply further ??EEA3 ??

Is my p60 relevant at all in the application ,
Husband work wife looking after young children all those 5 years it's just happened to be the wife is the sponsor
So how can we demonstrate the she has been exerting her treaty right in the UK ,

Your wife doesn't need to apply for anything, as a BC she has a right to abode already.

But the certificate is important to confirm use of the McCarthy arrangement so she is treated as an EEA national to sponsor you.

The problem is its her exercise of treaty rights that's required (not evidence of your working with your P60s).

If self-sufficient she needs to show CSI cover in place (for both of you).

Or, as suggested, she may be able to claim retained worker status on medical grounds (but only if she had been a worker before).

Hello
In light of your analysis ,
I will be applying for eea4 , my wife as sponsor under self sufficient category , showing them my p60 and bank statement . Have a look at this
Evidence that there are suffiscent fund to maintain your self and any family memebers ....
Evidence of 'employment of any of you family members . ...
( in this case me member of her family working legally helping her to be self suffiscent )
Am I interpreting the paragraph wrong .

Csi as previously stated he's been canceled after my employment start , Ian going to take up a new one , but it seems to me that is not going to help obtaining PR because she and I weren't covered the entire 5 years , so maybe another RC 5 years )
What are your thoughts on that ?
Thank you

Amine-medini wrote:Hello
In light of your analysis ,
I will be applying for eea4 , my wife as sponsor under self sufficient category , showing them my p60 and bank statement . Have a look at this
Evidence that there are suffiscent fund to maintain your self and any family memebers ....
Evidence of 'employment of any of you family members . ...
( in this case me member of her family working legally helping her to be self suffiscent )
Am I interpreting the paragraph wrong .

Csi as previously stated he's been canceled after my employment start , Ian going to take up a new one , but it seems to me that is not going to help obtaining PR because she and I weren't covered the entire 5 years , so maybe another RC 5 years )
What are your thoughts on that ?
Thank you

I think the lack of CSI is a problem.
Your application (in self-sufficient category) is likely to fail because of that (despite showing financial assets, etc).

It is always proof of the EEA national exercising treaty rights that matters even when it is the non-EEA family member who is applying for confirmation of their PR.

If sponsor is to continue as a self-sufficient person the renewed CSI needs to cover both her & you.
CSI is not needed if sponsor/spouse was resuming activity as a worker (or self-employed).
The children are fine (no need for cover) as they are British already.

To be sure that your sponsor/spouse is being considered as an EEA national you also need to be sure you had a RC (as mentioned previously), in or before 2012.

Good luck.

Yes I do I have RC since 2011 .
So to resume , if I do take up a csi for both of us today and apply for EEA 4 couples month before my RC due to expire ( June 2016) so you think I might only eligible of another 5 years RC and fails on EEA4 , this is my best scenario that I see happening , unless you have another interpretation to ". failEEA4" that you most likely see happening to me

Amine-medini wrote:Yes I do I have RC since 2011 .
So to resume , if I do take up a csi for both of us today and apply for EEA 4 couples month before my RC due to expire ( June 2016) so you think I might only eligible of another 5 years RC and fails on EEA4 , this is my best scenario that I see happening , unless you have another interpretation to ". failEEA4" that you most likely see happening to me

Good you have the RC.

Yes I think you are correct.
A PR application at this time is, sadly, likely to fail despite your best efforts & all hard work for your family.

An application for a new RC to replace the expiring one is probably the best option.
Unless any other members can see another way.

Best of luck.

Even with a renewed csi ??
Do I still need to apply for PR Anyway using EEA4

Amine-medini wrote:Even with a renewed csi ??
Do I still need to apply for PR Anyway using EEA4

Well CSI is a form of insurance so its unlikely it can be back-dated.

You can try for confirmation of PR(/EEA4) if you wish but the fee is at risk.

In my opinion, an application to confirm PR will fail right now.

An application for a new RC (to reconfirm your right to work, etc) should of course succeed;
(that is, once CSI is put in place to support self-sufficiency).

Well , thank you for everything'
I will submit EEA4 and see what happened .
Can you or anyone recommend a good cheap csi basic that hi would accept
Thanks a lot

Amine-medini wrote:Well , thank you for everything'
I will submit EEA4 and see what happened .
Can you or anyone recommend a good cheap csi basic that hi would accept
Thanks a lot

I see WPA is often mentioned in these forums. There must be other providers too.

(Disclaimer: I have used WPA in the past but that was for business reasons and not specifically for immigration/PR purposes).

Hello

I contacted some company about CSI for EEA4 (or renewed Rc)But it's unclear which insurance I should take

Hello there , I am in middle of applying for eea4 my RC is about to expire the problem is we are under category self suffiscent through my employment ( me non eu working ) but i understand the we still needed to be covered last 5 years ( csi) but we canceled it after I start working , my wife the Irish: British citizen is not working although she does have small tiny sweet business but nothing officially
Could I exploit this route for PR ?
She has medical history blood clot etc ..
She gave birth twice on those last 5 years
If we do take up csi now is it true a higher excess( 1000 pounds ) could be refused by the HO for this reason ,
Please help thank you

I am non EU married to British/Irish wife have 2 beatiful daughters both British .my 5 years RC expired
Separate from my wife but not clear what is the future
But not legally no divorced yet due to many problems mainly her falsly accusing me ofbeating my 6 years daughter. Awaiting court on bail no to see or contact them what a nightmare unfair .
Don't think that she was exrcing her treaty right self sufficient through my employment but not CSI /
We took up new one recently .
Any way if we put all this aside
Can I stay legally in the UK continue my job through my British kids .
If not what else there to do .
I have my passport with RC expired
Marriage certificate
Prouf of employment my self
New CSI
Joint bank account statements for many years
Prouf of adress us lived to gather for 8 years
Any idea if so please send me a link
But remember for now there is no way of her assisting me for now.

You can apply for a Further Residence Card or a Permanent Residence Card depending on the case.

In light of the court order prohibiting you from approaching the children, perhaps you could seek assistance from the Secretary of State.

Appply without help from my wife ??
Will the documents listed above are sufficient ?
About me prohibiting from seeing mY children
Is not a court order yet is via police bail ,
Obviously I denied what she said in the strongest term possible , court likely will send me to trial no guilty plea

How will I seek assistance from the Secretary of state ?
Thank you

Amine-medini wrote:Appply without help from my wife ??
Will the documents listed above are sufficient ?
...

How will I seek assistance from the Secretary of state ?
Thank you

If not divorced you are still legally married - and EU rules still apply.

Gather all documents you can.
Keep scans & copies of all important documents.
You can continue with EU-related application for now.

Note There are ways & means that HO can be requested to gather evidence from a spouse if they are estranged &/or not cooperating.

HO/UKVI can be pressed, under Section 40 of the UK Borders Act, 2007, to check for relevant & necessary evidence related to your (ex-)spouse.

If UK Border Agency is directed by an Immigration Judge to contact another government department to obtain evidence on the exercise of Treaty rights, the Agency will comply with this in all cases.

In such circumstances, however, UKBA would hope and expect that the Tribunal would not make directions where the applicant has not even attempted to obtain this information themselves.

If you do divorce you need to look at RoR to retain your residency in UK.
Again if evidence cannot be obtained there is a procedure to follow to ask HO to get the necessary evidence for your application.

This is a very complex situation so you obviously need good representation now.

Good luck.

Hello everyone ,my case I'd quite complex. to explain it briefly
Non EU married to eea national 2009
Apply for eea 2 in 2010
Self sufficient with CSI but canceled shortly after
Now 5 years later eea2 expire soon .
Got a new CSI for me and my wife
My wife and my 2 daughters left me and go yo her mun not divorced not deperated just not contact ..
Unrelated note: she accused me of kicking my daughter in both chins making g 6 bruises I let you be the judge of that if it is even possible ..
Back to immigration case .: what would I say in the reason of not providing her passport and foto ??
Would I day I am married or separate because legally we still married ?
I don't think she was qualified those last 5 years because she was relying on my salary and not obtained CSI . but got a new one recently before she left me .
Is flr(FM) is the appropriate app in my case

Another thing . my 2 daughters are 2 British citizens through my wife dual nationality Irish/British
Is there something there that I can apply for as their father .basically can I switch from era route to UK route based on my daughters and British wife , is the 5 years residency under eea route obtained will play role as leave to remain in UK ?? One of the conditions I think to go UK route
Appreciate any help
Thank you

Amine-medini wrote:Another thing . my 2 daughters are 2 British citizens through my wife dual nationality Irish/British

So you got EEA rights through a misinterpretation of EU law. The British regulations were corrected on 16 July 2012. However, many of those who wrongly has those rights at that date were allowed to keep them. The relevant law is Schedule 3 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2012.

Amine-medini wrote:Hello everyone ,my case I'd quite complex. to explain it briefly
Non EU married to eea national 2009
Apply for eea 2 in 2010
Self sufficient with CSI but canceled shortly after
Now 5 years later eea2 expire soon .
Got a new CSI for me and my wife

When the CSI was cancelled, your wife ceased to be a 'qualified person', so, unless you've been regularly leaving and returning ('doing visa runs') to the UK so as to keep restarting the initial 3 months, you became an illegal immigrant when the CSI was cancelled, and Schedule 3 Regulation 2(3)(a) froze that status on 16 July 2012. The new CSI did not revive the status, for then your wife was an ordinary British national as far as the regulations are concerned; her Irish citizenship had become irrelevant for the EEA regulations.

With that one exception of having been doing visa runs, I see no EEA route for remaining in the UK. If you've been doing visa runs as above, you may be removed for abusing the free movement rights, but you may have a hope of retaining your former right of residence. Schedule 3 Regulation 2(5)(d) could cause you a problem if you do not reconcile - it say your wife ceases to count as Irish rather than British as soon as you cease to be a family member.

I don't believe any aspect of the last post is correct , for a variety of reasons. I don't propose to deal with it in details.

Suffice to say if you and your wife get divorced, and you can show your marriage lasted for at least 3 years,,including 1 years spent in the UK, then you will be able to retain your right of residence .

Obie wrote:Suffice to say if you and your wife get divorced, and you can show your marriage lasted for at least 3 years,,including 1 years spent in the UK, then you will be able to retain your right of residence.

This assumes she doesn't do something financially stupid like renouncing Irish nationality. (I don't know if that's a fast or a slow process.) If the OP still has the right of residence, he needs to make sure his wife understands that it is in the children's best interests to cooperate with his obtaining a residence certificate. No RC, no job. No job, no maintenance. If she thinks the children are better off with their father out of the country, then she may well achieve his departure.

All this is on top of the problem I mentioned before, but Obie doesn't believe.

There is one possible, standard solution to that problem that I overlooked, though it may depend on Donald Tusk and David Cameron being a pair of liars. The wife could renounce British nationality (which takes months), and defer the decree absolute until the OP clearly had employment in the UK.

She doesnt entend to renounce her Irish residency , what I am thinking I'd 2 ways
1 no divorce yet no legally deperated so I am still family member of an eea national with CSI apply for 5 years residency self suffiscsnt ( been married for 7 years)
2 she get divorced than retain of right application came into play .apply on my own merit

My wife being also British I just mentioned that to see if there is any options
I would like to remind you that my wife cooperated with everything before the incident for instance obtaining for both of us CSI , she can't just go and say to them no I am not longer Irish I don't want to help him
All I want is another 5 years residency under eea route
Either through my current status married
Or divorced through RoR .
But can't obtain her passport but I have the CSI for both of us and the source of income on form of joint bank account for both of us ,
What do you guys think of my interpretation ..
Forget the British nationality issu
We apply in 2010 through her Irish one .it just happen to her to be also British .

In another note , right of father to live where his childrens live ? Really nothing there daughters 4 and 6 ?

Amine-medini wrote:Forget the British nationality issu
We apply in 2010 through her Irish one .it just happen to her to be also British .

Well, if you can hide her British citizenship from the Home Office forever, then apart from that issue, legally you can obtain a residence certificate without her passport.

Amine-medini wrote: In another note , right of father to live where his childrens live ? Really nothing there daughters 4 and 6?

The only EEA-related right arises if you will be their sole carer, and you may have to argue that their mother is not a fit person to care for them.

Otherwise, I think this belongs on another forum, namely 'Immigration for family members'. Perhaps a moderator may confirm. The relationship with the elder daughter is probably the more important; your claim will be based on the right to a family life with her. You may have a problem using the younger daughter because of your lack of CSI for your wife when she was born.

You can't hide that she is British , we just fellow the same route when obtained RC 5 years ago , but because of lack of CSI i though I will fellow the same route apply as family member of an Irish national .
With new CSI in place self suffiscsnt category joint bank account showing her acess to the incomes and financial help from her family mainly her mother .
In the eea(FM) form there is question about weather you have or had held any other nationality I said yes she is also British
With all that in mind what do you think