ILR BRP impounded at Heathrow two and a half years after naturalisation

Hi,

I just had the most frustrating experience at Heathrow T2 whereby my ILR BRP was impounded out of the blue. I had travelled with my non-UK passport and ILR BRP on this occasion, which I had done without problems for over 2 and a half years (>10 trips) previously whilst having been a British Citizen at the same time (which was well before the new legislation to return BRPs upon naturalisation came into effect).

The issue started with the fact that my fingerprints had disappeared from their systems when they tried to verify me (BRP was still appearing active), so then they took my documents to the back-office and came back out without my BRP and told me they were impounding my BRP on the basis that I am also a British Citizen and also refused to stamp my non-UK passport with an entry stamp, simply allowing me back in on the basis of my British Citizenship (I wasn't carrying my British Passport either).

They claimed that Officers have been instructed to impound any BRPs where they find the holder is a British Citizen since 29th June 2016, even though I have not seen any cases reported on this forum and I myself returned to the UK with my non-UK passport and ILR BRP in Feb 2017, so I'm not sure why they suddenly decided to exercise this out of the blue.

Needless to say, I am not willing to accept this treatment and would welcome thoughts on similar cases and/or best way to escalate this matter in order to get:-
- a return stamp on my non-UK passport for the inbound travel, and
- my ILR BRP fully activated and returned to me

Thanks in advance for reading / responding!

Your ILR BRP won't be returned to you as this becomes void once you have been granted British citizenship.

Casa wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:42 pm

Your ILR BRP won't be returned to you as this becomes void once you have been granted British citizenship.

But what they did to me, is it common? Has anyone seen cases reported here before? Please note I'm referring to naturalisation obtained in first half of 2015, i.e. well before the legislation requiring a return of ILR BRPs upon naturalisation. In fact, had I not been able to keep my ILR BRP, I was not going to apply for naturalisation so soon. Now they do this out of the blue, how is this right?

Your ILR ceased when you became a British citizen. Therefore, your BRP would have been of no value any more. Furthermore, having become a British citizen, you do not have any leave to remain under the Immigration Act 1971 and therefore will not be issued with a new BRP.

If you do not have a British passport, you can apply for a CoE-RoA in your non-British passport, which will allow you to enter and exit the UK, but which will not state that you are a British citizen.

In any case, as a British citizen, you cannot be stamped on entering and exiting the UK. For that matter, EEA citizens, who are not subject to the Immigration Act 1971, are also not stamped on arrival or exit from the UK.

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:49 pm

Please note I'm referring to naturalisation obtained in first half of 2015, i.e. well before the legislation requiring a return of ILR BRPs upon naturalisation.

The fact that ILR ceases on acquisition of British naturalisation is due to the Immigration Act 1971, as amended in 1983, and not any law that came up in 2015/16. What happened then is that people whose ILR had ceased (due to acquisition of British citizenship) were required to return their BRPs, which were of no value even if you held onto them.

If the IO allowed you into the UK based on the BRP after your acquisition of British citizenship, s/he was in error as your ILR had ceased but you had Right of Abode in the UK after becoming a British citizen and should have been allowed in without stamping anyway.

This thread of somebody who wants to renounce his British citizenship and revert to ILR is worth reading as well.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:50 pm

Your ILR ceased when you became a British citizen. Therefore, your BRP would have been of no value any more. Furthermore, having become a British citizen, you do not have any leave to remain under the Immigration Act 1971 and therefore will not be issued with a new BRP.

If you do not have a British passport, you can apply for a CoE-RoA in your non-British passport, which will allow you to enter and exit the UK, but which will not state that you are a British citizen.

In any case, as a British citizen, you cannot be stamped on entering and exiting the UK. For that matter, EEA citizens, who are not subject to the Immigration Act 1971, are also not stamped on arrival or exit from the UK.

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:49 pm

Please note I'm referring to naturalisation obtained in first half of 2015, i.e. well before the legislation requiring a return of ILR BRPs upon naturalisation.

The fact that ILR ceases on acquisition of British naturalisation is due to the Immigration Act 1971, as amended in 1983, and not any law that came up in 2015/16. What happened then is that people whose ILR had ceased (due to acquisition of British citizenship) were required to return their BRPs, which were of no value even if you held onto them.

If the IO allowed you into the UK based on the BRP after your acquisition of British citizenship, s/he was in error as your ILR had ceased but you had Right of Abode in the UK after becoming a British citizen and should have been allowed in without stamping anyway.

This thread of somebody who wants to renounce his British citizenship and revert to ILR is worth reading as well.

Thanks for the elaborate explanation, this may make some sense theoretically, but:-
1. why has no one else on this forum appeared to have had this happen to them?
2. how can more than 10 different IOs make the same mistake repeatedly over and over?

If I wanted to escalate this higher, what would the best course of action be?

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:25 pm

1. why has no one else on this forum appeared to have had this happen to them?

Most likely because the vast majority of people on these forums would travel either on British passports or with CoE-RoA endorsed in their non-British passports after acquisition of British nationality.

If they have dual citizenship, they would just travel with both passports. If their country of origin does not allow dual citizenship, they would either use CoE-RoA or surrender their non-British passport and make alternate arrangements as allowed by their country of origin (such as OCI in India).

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:25 pm

If I wanted to escalate this higher, what would the best course of action be?

Complain to
a) the Border Force
b) the Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration
c) Your MP
d) the Prime Minister, but try not to distract her too much from Brexit.

But remain aware that there is no provision in law for you to hold a BRP now and it is highly unlikely you would get it back.

As an aside, this blog makes an interesting point.

Passports at the junction of international and domestic law wrote:Passports are the property of the issuer, i.e. the foreign government, and not of the holder, i.e. the foreign citizen.

If passports are the property of the government which is just issued to you to prove your identity, BRPs are also likely the property of the UK government issued to you to prove your leave to remain in the UK. As a British citizen, you have no leave to remain and therefore no right to a BRP. Therefore the UK government (in the form of the Border Force) has taken back its property.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:35 pm

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:25 pm

1. why has no one else on this forum appeared to have had this happen to them?

Most likely because the vast majority of people on these forums would travel either on British passports or with CoE-RoA endorsed in their non-British passports after acquisition of British nationality.

If they have dual citizenship, they would just travel with both passports. If their country of origin does not allow dual citizenship, they would either use CoE-RoA or surrender their non-British passport and make alternate arrangements as allowed by their country of origin (such as OCI in India).

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:25 pm

If I wanted to escalate this higher, what would the best course of action be?

Complain to
a) the Border Force
b) the Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration
c) Your MP
d) the Prime Minister, but try not to distract her too much from Brexit.

But remain aware that there is no provision in law for you to hold a BRP now and it is highly unlikely you would get it back.

As an aside, this blog makes an interesting point.

Passports at the junction of international and domestic law wrote:Passports are the property of the issuer, i.e. the foreign government, and not of the holder, i.e. the foreign citizen.

If passports are the property of the government which is just issued to you to prove your identity, BRPs are also likely the property of the UK government issued to you to prove your leave to remain in the UK. As a British citizen, you have no leave to remain and therefore no right to a BRP. Therefore the UK government (in the form of the Border Force) has taken back its property.

Thanks Secret.Simon... I don't think I am unique in how I was using my ILR BRP post naturalisation, but I certainly have been dealt with in a unique manner on this occasion. They should apply this course of action consistently on all such cases without any exception, and should proactively make information about such actions public so people are well informed before they choose to naturalise. Can't have such inconsistency and unpleasant surprises on matters that have such significant impact on individual lives.

Were you forced to naturalize as a British Citizen? if not, why are you complaining then? As secret Simon has elaborated perfectly, you cannot have BRP when you have chosen to naturalize.

bruteforce wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:15 pm

Were you forced to naturalize as a British Citizen? if not, why are you complaining then? As secret Simon has elaborated perfectly, you cannot have BRP when you have chosen to naturalize.

I was not required to send back my BRP as a condition of naturalisation when I was naturalised, and as I myself have proved over 10 times, the practice was that I could use my BRP with my non-UK passport for travel. This was a key factor before I went ahead with the naturalisation process, so the state of play has clearly changed which is not fair in any way. Without going into details, this can have a significant impact on an individual.

What is the point of having dual nationality whilst living in the UK if you can't even use the non-UK passport independently to leave and enter the UK? I have a choice to travel using either country's passport (accepting the pros and cons either way), but now I will be forced to carry both passports together if I choose to travel on my non-UK passport, I can't just use the non-UK passport on its own since airlines will need proof that I have the ability to enter the UK before they would let me travel back to the UK, and the only proof I have left is the UK passport.

This just doesn't make sense, and whilst I can see all responses so far focusing on theory and appreciate the logic, the practice has been consistently opposite to what I faced on this occasion and this cannot be right.

In my escalation, I will offer an option to cancel my UK passport in exchange for a CoE - RoA if at all that is possible now.

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:37 pm

What is the point of having dual nationality whilst living in the UK if you can't even use the non-UK passport independently to leave and enter the UK?

a) You can use your non-UK passport to enter the UK if it is endorsed with a CoE-RoA.
b) The UK is being generous in allowing you to enter the UK with a non-UK passport. Most countries that allow dual citizenship require you to enter the country with their passport (the US and South Africa are two examples that immediately come to mind).

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:37 pm

In my escalation, I will offer an option to cancel my UK passport in exchange for a CoE - RoA if at all that is possible now.

To whom will you "offer this option"? The decision (of replacing the passport with a CoE-RoA) is yours to take. You will also have to pay a lot more for a CoE-RoA (£423) than a passport (£72.50).

Broadly, as I understand it, your gripe is that IOs made errors in the past and therefore the errors should continue because you have an expectation of the errors continuing.

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:37 pm

In my escalation, I will offer an option to cancel my UK passport in exchange for a CoE - RoA if at all that is possible now.

IMO, it may be possible to surrender or cancel ONLY your British passport & not nationality, in that case, you should be able to apply for CoE-RoA on your foreign passport. Lets see what other have to say about this.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:43 pm

Broadly, as I understand it, your gripe is that IOs made errors in the past and therefore the errors should continue because you have an expectation of the errors continuing.

I don't believe those were errors, that was the practice, I have seen on these very forums people using their ILR BRPs post naturalisation well before me and I have yet to see anyone's being impounded the way mine was.

Another point, what about those with the ILR sticker rather than BRP? Their ILR status is not being "taken back" in any way.

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:11 pm

Another point, what about those with the ILR sticker rather than BRP? Their ILR status is not being "taken back" in any way.

Once British citizenship is acquired, ILR status is dead as a matter of law. It does not need to be taken away.

As for the vignette, I can't say what the Border Force is supposed to do with them. I guess they have a big "CANCELLED" stamp for such vignettes.

This thread suggests that perhaps the Border Force has made their checks more stringent and/or thorough.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:18 pm

intalex wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:11 pm

Another point, what about those with the ILR sticker rather than BRP? Their ILR status is not being "taken back" in any way.

Once British citizenship is acquired, ILR status is dead as a matter of law. It does not need to be taken away.

As for the vignette, I can't say what the Border Force is supposed to do with them. I guess they have a big "CANCELLED" stamp for such vignettes.

Again that's just theory, virtually no one else has had their ILR BRP or status cancelled by an IO at a point of re-entry to the UK just because they were also a British Citizen. Maybe this is the start of something new, but I'm not going to accept as being the only/unlucky one and do nothing about it.

Intalex, by having British citizenship you have more privilege than by having ILR/BRP. There is clearly 2 ways on how to proceed in your case - either obtain a British passport or CoE-RoA. As you have refused to give more contextual information, only one thing springs to mind - you want to conceal your British citizenship while in other countries. And if you are threatened or afraid of negative consequences abroad - just don't travel there.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:43 pm

b) The UK is being generous in allowing you to enter the UK with a non-UK passport. Most countries that allow dual citizenship require you to enter the country with their passport (the US and South Africa are two examples that immediately come to mind).

Poland is another one that requires to enter on Polish passport/national ID if you have Polish citizenship (however that's not very strictly enforced).

The interesting thing is that Polish citizenship is always passed to descendants and if you have a Polish grandparent or parent, you are also Polish. It occassionally creates an unpleasent surprises especially for people with Polish surnames when going through the border control - when they are unaware of their second (Polish) citizenship, but it usually ends just with a suggestion to apply for Polish passport.

swintooh wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:30 am

Intalex, by having British citizenship you have more privilege than by having ILR/BRP.

In the UK, yes. For travel, depends where you need to travel to. For me, no.

swintooh wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:30 am

There is clearly 2 ways on how to proceed in your case - either obtain a British passport or CoE-RoA.

I already have a British passport but what now appears more useful to me is a CoE-RoA instead. Looks like it is still possible to switch based on a few responses I've received so far, I don't mind the extra one-off cost and losing my British passport, in order to get a CoE-RoA on my non-UK passport instead. Do I simply apply to cancel my British passport and then make an application for the CoE-RoA?

This is how important it is for me and as I've said before, had it ever been suggested that my ILR BRP would be taken back I would not have gone ahead with applying for naturalisation and would have waited longer instead which would have had minimal impact on me.

swintooh wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:30 am

As you have refused to give more contextual information, only one thing springs to mind - you want to conceal your British citizenship while in other countries. And if you are threatened or afraid of negative consequences abroad - just don't travel there.

No offence but the "why" is my business and I'm pretty sure on my reasons! It's the "what" that is important for this forum - a need to be able to travel abroad with my non-UK passport without being forced to carry my British passport at the same time.

intalex wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:49 am

No offence but the "why" is my business and I'm pretty sure on my reasons! It's the "what" that is important for this forum - a need to be able to travel abroad with my non-UK passport without being forced to carry my British passport at the same time.

You are right in saying that it is none of our business, and in fact, if you cancel your British passport you will be able to obtain a RoA sticker on your foreign passport.

But if what you want is to conceal the fact that you are a British citizen, a RoA sticker will not work because only British citizens have right of abode, so any border officer in any country who checks your foreign passport will see your RoA sticker and MAY assume that you are a dual British Citizen.

Anyway, if British citizenship is such a burden for you, just give it up: https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality

The guidance booklet clearly says the BRP has to be surrendered on obtaining UK nationality and in fact you are charged a fine if not done so within a specific period.
Unfortunately you did not read the fine print and nobody noticed it when you travelled in and out earlier.

ajitk1 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:13 am

The guidance booklet clearly says the BRP has to be surrendered on obtaining UK nationality and in fact you are charged a fine if not done so within a specific period.
Unfortunately you did not read the fine print and nobody noticed it when you travelled in and out earlier.

As has already been stated by the OP, this requirement was not in place when he applied for citizenship. It is only for those who applied from January 2016.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:04 am

ajitk1 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:13 am

The guidance booklet clearly says the BRP has to be surrendered on obtaining UK nationality and in fact you are charged a fine if not done so within a specific period.
Unfortunately you did not read the fine print and nobody noticed it when you travelled in and out earlier.

As has already been stated by the OP, this requirement was not in place when he applied for citizenship. It is only for those who applied from January 2016.

Hi CR001, some of us, me especially, rely on your valuable advice and experience. I do not see any reason why someone will have citizenship and still be using the ILR to exit and enter the country. You might as well stick with the ILR status if the Biometric Card is so important. We are just trying to abuse the system by doing this. It is just like changing your address on your driver's licence and still carry the old and new drivers licence with different addresses.

baddy wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:32 am

CR001 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:04 am

ajitk1 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:13 am

The guidance booklet clearly says the BRP has to be surrendered on obtaining UK nationality and in fact you are charged a fine if not done so within a specific period.
Unfortunately you did not read the fine print and nobody noticed it when you travelled in and out earlier.

As has already been stated by the OP, this requirement was not in place when he applied for citizenship. It is only for those who applied from January 2016.

Hi CR001, some of us, me especially, rely on your valuable advice and experience. I do not see any reason why someone will have citizenship and still be using the ILR to exit and enter the country. You might as well stick with the ILR status if the Biometric Card is so important. We are just trying to abuse the system by doing this. It is just like changing your address on your driver's licence and still carry the old and new drivers licence with different addresses.

I was merely pointing out to user 'ajitk1' that the rule he has quoted does not apply to pre January 2016 citizenship applicants, i.e. mandatory returning of BRP. I have made no other comments on this topic.

AdInfernos wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:59 am

You are right in saying that it is none of our business, and in fact, if you cancel your British passport you will be able to obtain a RoA sticker on your foreign passport.

But if what you want is to conceal the fact that you are a British citizen, a RoA sticker will not work because only British citizens have right of abode, so any border officer in any country who checks your foreign passport will see your RoA sticker and MAY assume that you are a dual British Citizen.

Anyway, if British citizenship is such a burden for you, just give it up: https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality

Thanks for your understanding!

Please avoid making assumptions over what I'm trying to achieve, my only goal is to be able to use my non-UK passport independently and not have to carry my British passport everywhere as well. So RoA may still be a useful option regardless of what it implies to anyone.

BC is not a burden, but the act of taking away my ILR BRP is (again, the "why" is my business) and the fact that it has happened out of the blue without any warning or official public notification means I could not even plan for this beforehand, not to mention it worked fine without issues for two and a half years and no one else appears to have had this treatment (I'm quite surprised this doesn't surprise anyone else on here!).

baddy wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:32 am

Hi CR001, some of us, me especially, rely on your valuable advice and experience. I do not see any reason why someone will have citizenship and still be using the ILR to exit and enter the country. You might as well stick with the ILR status if the Biometric Card is so important. We are just trying to abuse the system by doing this. It is just like changing your address on your driver's licence and still carry the old and new drivers licence with different addresses.

It's got nothing to do with abusing the system, it is just what my requirements are and that the basis on which I made the decision to naturalise in the first place was that I would still be able to keep and use my ILR BRP together with my non-UK passport until the BRP expires, which I did for two and a half years. Had there been a clear directive then to have to return the ILR BRP or risk having it impounded, then I would have delayed my decision to naturalise.

It's quite simple, it's a life decision and I made it based on state of play at the time, and now the state of play has been changed out of the blue with no prior notification or time to plan for this. I also can't reverse my decision to naturalise now and re-attain my ILR status back to how things were before.

I do appreciate all the advice and assistance I receive on this forum, and am grateful for all the contributions, but please do not assume there is some form of intent to abuse the system here or make assumptions over why I want to do what I want to do.

Wow, I had not expected a thread on a fairly mundane point of law to get so interesting.

AdInfernos wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:59 am

But if what you want is to conceal the fact that you are a British citizen, a RoA sticker will not work because only British citizens have right of abode, so any border officer in any country who checks your foreign passport will see your RoA sticker and MAY assume that you are a dual British Citizen.

Not entirely true. There are some (a very small number, but they do exist) non-British Commonwealth citizens who have Right of Abode in the UK due to having been resident in the UK before 1983. We know that the OP is not one of them, but I'm just pointing out that RoA does not definitely prove that you are a British citizen. The only thing that an RoA does conclusively prove is that the OP is the citizen of a Commonwealth country who has the right to reside in the UK.

Also, we on these forums know what RoA is. But an immigration official in say China or Iran is unlikely to know the difference between an RoA vignette and an older ILR vignette or the difference between RoA and ILR. From their point of view, both of them give the holder the right to reside in the UK and that is likely all that they are interested in.

intalex wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:49 am

I don't mind the extra one-off cost and losing my British passport, in order to get a CoE-RoA on my non-UK passport instead.

It is not a one-off cost. The CoE-RoA is not a BRP card, but an old-fashioned vignette affixed to your non-British passport and is only valid for the lifetime of that passport. Most passports are only valid for ten years (some like New Zealand passports used to be valid for only five years). Given that your posts suggest that you travel extensively, you may want to renew your non-British passport and then get a CoE-RoA in the new passport.

Right of abode (ROA) - Guidance wrote:Under section 3(9) of the 1971 Act, as amended by the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, a person claiming the right of abode in the UK can prove it by presenting either:

• a UK passport describing them as a British citizen

• a UK passport describing them as a British subject with the right of abode in the UK

• a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode

The right of abode is a statutory right that a person either does or does not have. However, in order to prove that right a person is required to present one of the above forms of evidence. Regulations provide that a certificate of entitlement is only valid for the validity period of the passport that it is attached to. A person who has a certificate of entitlement in an expired passport should be advised to apply for a new certificate of entitlement to be placed in their current passport before travelling.

As an aside, to the best of my knowledge, even BRP cards have a limited validity (ten years or less). And when that expired, you would have been in the same situation as you are now, as you would not have been issued with a new BRP card, due to your lack of leave to remain in the UK.

intalex wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:13 pm

but please do not assume there is some form of intent to abuse the system here or make assumptions over why I want to do what I want to do.

I entirely agree that we ought not to assume. But lack of information leads to assumptions. The more the information provided, the fewer the assumptions to be made.