Tier1 Ent to ILR Job Creation query

ssilr · Post by **ssilr** » Fri May 24, 2019 11:26 pm

Hi all,
I am a new member to this forum who wants to apply for Tier 1 ENT 5 years route to ILR in 1st week of July2019.
I am planning to apply on my own without any solicitor this time. When I come across this forum and after reading so many people’s cases it gave me a sense of confidence to go on my own. Hence request all experienced members to help me in this regard.

My job creation looks bit complex because some employees worked less than 130 hours where I had to combine 2 part timers to make 1 Full time also the employees left after few months where their position is filled by new employees. All the employees have same job title.

I have a query if I meet the job creation requirement. I am relying on the 12month period from July2018- June2019. My Job creation scenario is as below where I am relying on 6 employees which I named as A,B,C,D,E,F altogether in that period. Please assume by default all the employees worked a minimum of 130 hours/month unless mentioned otherwise in the below example. All the employees are paid Monthly.

Note: I know June months pay is still pending to pay assuming it goes as mentioned in the example.

Job 1 - July 2018 to end of June 2019

• July - A
• August - A
• September - A and B (both combined becomes 130 hours or over)
• October - B
• November to end of June 2019 - C

Job 2 - July 2018 to end of June 2019

• July - D
• August - D
• September and October - D and E (both combined becomes 130 hours or over)
• November to end of June 2019 - F
• With exception in Feb 2019 for F( combine with F +D OR F+E becomes 130 hours or over).

I hope I have tried to explain the Job creation properly kindly let me know if it isn't, so that I can rephrase in a better way.

Now my query is do I qualify for the Job creation req?

All experienced members advise is highly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance.

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Sat May 25, 2019 12:35 am

ssilr wrote: ↑
Fri May 24, 2019 11:26 pm
Hi all,
I am a new member to this forum who wants to apply for Tier 1 ENT 5 years route to ILR in 1st week of July2019.
I am planning to apply on my own without any solicitor this time. When I come across this forum and after reading so many people’s cases it gave me a sense of confidence to go on my own. Hence request all experienced members to help me in this regard.

My job creation looks bit complex because some employees worked less than 130 hours where I had to combine 2 part timers to make 1 Full time also the employees left after few months where their position is filled by new employees. All the employees have same job title.

120 hrs.. employees can be replaced.

I have a query if I meet the job creation requirement. I am relying on the 12month period from July2018- June2019. My Job creation scenario is as below where I am relying on 6 employees which I named as A,B,C,D,E,F altogether in that period. Please assume by default all the employees worked a minimum of 130 hours/month unless mentioned otherwise in the below example. All the employees are paid Monthly.

Note: I know June months pay is still pending to pay assuming it goes as mentioned in the example.

payroll can generate early June 19 payslip n RTI FPS..

Job 1 - July 2018 to end of June 2019

• July - A
• August - A
• September - A and B (both combined becomes 130 hours or over)
• October - B
• November to end of June 2019 - C

Job 2 - July 2018 to end of June 2019

• July - D
• August - D
• September and October - D and E (both combined becomes 130 hours or over)
• November to end of June 2019 - F
• With exception in Feb 2019 for F( combine with F +D OR F+E becomes 130 hours or over).

F&D is better
I hope I have tried to explain the Job creation properly kindly let me know if it isn't, so that I can rephrase in a better way.

Now my query is do I qualify for the Job creation req?

All experienced members advise is highly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance.

Initial visa date?
Extension approval date?

ssilr · Post by **ssilr** » Sun May 26, 2019 5:15 pm

Hi Aman,

Thanks for your reply. As per you I am eligible in Job Creation requirement right?

I have heard it is tricky and risky while submitting the details on line with my job creation scenario. Where there are chances of CW getting it worng. Due to too many employees used to claim the Job creation requirement.

I would please request other senior members and experts Macrnath to kindly respond to my query. So that I can make a informed decision.

Initial visa date: March 2014
Extension approval date: July 2017

Thanks in Advance.

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Sun May 26, 2019 6:23 pm

ssilr wrote: ↑
Sun May 26, 2019 5:15 pm
Hi Aman,

Thanks for your reply. As per you I am eligible in Job Creation requirement right?

A little problem..

I have heard it is tricky and risky while submitting the details on line with my job creation scenario. Where there are chances of CW getting it worng. Due to too many employees used to claim the Job creation requirement.

Really. Heard from whom? If ur job and employees are genuine you ve nothing to worry abt.
It’s not unusual for employees to leave or be replaced.

I would please request other senior members and experts Macrnath to kindly respond to my query. So that I can make a informed decision.

Initial visa date: March 2014
Extension approval date: July 2017

So you were eligible for ILR from March 2019 minus 28 days.. but doesn’t matter now. You came under transitional arrangement and could have used the above employees without thinking so much abt it.

Thanks in Advance.

ssilr · Post by **ssilr** » Sun May 26, 2019 6:48 pm

Hi Aman,

Thanks for the quick response.

You said a little problem? Could you please elaborate.

Heard from my previous solicitor that it is risky.

My business is Genuine and nothing to worry on the employees side. All I am worried is the way the employees worked as most of them are part timers in some months and worked 130 hours few months.

Yes I was eligible from March 2019. And I should have gone for Transitional arrangements( I aimed for 6 months route with 8 employees part timers) but was advised against it from my previous solicitor.

Thanks.

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Sun May 26, 2019 6:51 pm

ssilr wrote: ↑
Fri May 24, 2019 11:26 pm

Job 1 - July 2018 to end of June 2019

• July - A
• August - A
• September - A and B (Job share)
• October - B
• November to end of June 2019 - C

Job 2 - July 2018 to end of June 2019

• July - D
• August - D
• September and October - D and F(Job share)
• November to end of June 2019 - F
• With exception in Feb 2019 F

Check if employee F atleast did 120 hrs in Feb. If not add July 2019. The jobs don’t need to be performed consecutively.
How do you explain adding D or any other employee to Feb as job share?
Tbh depends on what the job role is..
otherwise it seems like ur adding a job share to fulfil required hours for Feb.
But you could have hired D or E to share job role with F in Feb

As per my own experience job shares are acceptable.

ssilr · Post by **ssilr** » Sun May 26, 2019 7:30 pm

Hi Aman,

Thanks for your swift response.

Employee F did 90 hours in Feb 19.

All the Job roles have same Title.

D is wroking for business from July18
E from Aug18
F from Oct18.
D,E,F are currently continuing in Business and as said beofre hours keep changing due to some employee m8 be off due to health issues for a week or two or time off etc.

My Visa expires in begining 2nd week of July2019. So I cant include July month Am I correct?

I hope I am meeting the jobs requirement.

Thanks

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Sun May 26, 2019 9:46 pm

ssilr wrote: ↑
Sun May 26, 2019 7:30 pm
Hi Aman,

Thanks for your swift response.

Employee F did 90 hours in Feb 19.

All the Job roles have same Title.

All ur employees have the same job title..!?

D is wroking for business from July18
E from Aug18
F from Oct18.
D,E,F are currently continuing in Business and as said beofre hours keep changing due to some employee m8 be off due to health issues for a week or two or time off etc.

My Visa expires in begining 2nd week of July2019. So I cant include July month Am I correct?

Yes you can. You can apply before visa expiry and add an early generated RTI FPS and payslip for July 2019

I hope I am meeting the jobs requirement.

Thanks

ssilr · Post by **ssilr** » Mon May 27, 2019 12:26 pm

Yes Aman.

All the employees have same Job title.

So according to you I have satisfied the Job creation requirement right?

Also are you in the same boat as Iam applying for ILR through tier 1 Entrepreneur?

Thanks

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Mon May 27, 2019 1:10 pm

Do NOT tag your question and topic link onto other members threads to get senior members to respond to you. It is unfair to other users. Please wait for responses. It is a bank holiday weekend and many members likely spending time with families.

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Mon May 27, 2019 1:12 pm

ssilr wrote: ↑
Fri May 24, 2019 11:26 pm
Hi all,
I am a new member to this forum who wants to apply for Tier 1 ENT 5 years route to ILR in 1st week of July2019.
I am planning to apply on my own without any solicitor this time. When I come across this forum and after reading so many people’s cases it gave me a sense of confidence to go on my own. Hence request all experienced members to help me in this regard.

My job creation looks bit complex because some employees worked less than 130 hours where I had to combine 2 part timers to make 1 Full time also the employees left after few months where their position is filled by new employees. All the employees have same job title.

I have a query if I meet the job creation requirement. I am relying on the 12month period from July2018- June2019. My Job creation scenario is as below where I am relying on 6 employees which I named as A,B,C,D,E,F altogether in that period. Please assume by default all the employees worked a minimum of 130 hours/month unless mentioned otherwise in the below example. All the employees are paid Monthly.

Note: I know June months pay is still pending to pay assuming it goes as mentioned in the example.

Job 1 - July 2018 to end of June 2019

• July - A
• August - A
• September - A and B (both combined becomes 130 hours or over)
• October - B
• November to end of June 2019 - C

Job 2 - July 2018 to end of June 2019

• July - D
• August - D
• September and October - D and E (both combined becomes 130 hours or over)
• November to end of June 2019 - F
• With exception in Feb 2019 for F( combine with F +D OR F+E becomes 130 hours or over).

I hope I have tried to explain the Job creation properly kindly let me know if it isn't, so that I can rephrase in a better way.

Now my query is do I qualify for the Job creation req?

All experienced members advise is highly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance.

There is insufficient information to provide a clear opinion.

You need to meet 30 hrs / week and without knowing the exact dates in the months when you have two employees, I can't say if that is met.

It is important to know how exactly you come to the 130 hrs per month when you have employees changing. If it is just that a new employee is starting after the old employee left, you should be ok. If you have an overlap or each of them worked less than 30 hrs/week, it is less clear.

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Mon May 27, 2019 5:10 pm

ssilr wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 12:26 pm
Yes Aman.

All the employees have same Job title.

So according to you I have satisfied the Job creation requirement right?

Ambiguous

Also are you in the same boat as Iam applying for ILR through tier 1 Entrepreneur?

No. I received ILR last year via Ent T1

Thanks

Job 1
Title: XYZ
Creation date:
F/t or P/t:

Employee: (A)
Start date in job:
End date in job:
No of hours per month: (120)

Employee: (B)
Start date in job:
End date in job:
No of hours per month: (120)
So forth..

Job 2
Title: XYZ
Creation date:
F/t or P/t:

Employee: (D)
Start date in job:
End date in job:
No of hours per month: (120)

Employee: (E)
Start date in job:
End date in job:
No of hours per month: (120)

So forth..

2 part time jobs @ 12 months is equivalent to 1 full time job @ 12 months.
A full time job can be shared amongst two employees ie performed by 2 employees.

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Mon May 27, 2019 6:37 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Sat May 25, 2019 12:35 am

120 hrs.. employees can be replaced.

120 hrs per month is really old information.

The requirement is 130 hrs/month

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Mon May 27, 2019 6:41 pm

ssilr wrote: ↑
Fri May 24, 2019 11:26 pm
Hi all,

Job 2 - July 2018 to end of June 2019

• July - D
• August - D
• September and October - D and E (both combined becomes 130 hours or over)
• November to end of June 2019 - F
• With exception in Feb 2019 for F( combine with F +D OR F+E becomes 130 hours or over).

Since D & E were also working in Feb 2019, that should be ok.

What you will need to do in this relatively complex case is to create a Table for each Job.

The columns should be each week ideally (or if not possible, each month) from July 18 to June 19. Rows should be the hours worked by each employee for that job.

If the total in each week is greater than 30 or total for each month is greater than 130, you would be ok.

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Mon May 27, 2019 7:43 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 6:37 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Sat May 25, 2019 12:35 am

120 hrs.. employees can be replaced.

120 hrs per month is really old information.

The requirement is 130 hrs/month

Whilst it’s not stated specifically in the guidance an applicant (tier11417) has quoted that the online form considers 120hrs per month or 30hrs per week as FT last December 2018.

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Mon May 27, 2019 8:22 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 7:43 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 6:37 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Sat May 25, 2019 12:35 am

120 hrs.. employees can be replaced.

120 hrs per month is really old information.

The requirement is 130 hrs/month
Whilst it’s not stated specifically in the guidance an applicant (tier11417) has quoted that the online form considers 120hrs per month or 30hrs per week as FT last December 2018.

What tuer11417 mentioned is that the online form still states 120 hrs per month. The online form does not make a decision as to whether an entry is FT or not, so it does not consider it as FT.

When the paper form has a similar error, there were applicants who were refused points for not meeting 130 hrs. The cases reported here were overturned on AR on the basis of the error in the form.

But that is not something any applicant should depend on. The immigration rules are very clear - it is 30 hrs/week. So HO can always insist on that.

ssilr · Post by **ssilr** » Mon May 27, 2019 9:38 pm

Hi CR001,

Sorry as I am new to this forum was wondering If I have created a thread correctly. When I saw the thread Tier1 to ILR thought of posting it there. I did not realise that I would be cutting through other people queries.

Apologies for it.

Thanks.

ssilr · Post by **ssilr** » Mon May 27, 2019 11:24 pm

Hi Marcnath & Aman,

Thanks for your responses.

I have already created a excel sheet for my reference. I am unable to paste the excel sheet in here. I have been trying in different ways to paste the excel here for the past 2 hours. But I couldn't and gave up now.

Could any one please let me know is there any way to paste the table here.

Thanks.

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Tue May 28, 2019 12:05 am

marcnath wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 8:22 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 7:43 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 6:37 pm

aman90 wrote: ↑
Sat May 25, 2019 12:35 am

120 hrs.. employees can be replaced.

120 hrs per month is really old information.

The requirement is 130 hrs/month
Whilst it’s not stated specifically in the guidance an applicant (tier11417) has quoted that the online form considers 120hrs per month or 30hrs per week as FT last December 2018.
What tuer11417 mentioned is that the online form still states 120 hrs per month. The online form does not make a decision as to whether an entry is FT or not, so it does not consider it as FT.

When the paper form has a similar error, there were applicants who were refused points for not meeting 130 hrs. The cases reported here were overturned on AR on the basis of the error in the form.

But that is not something any applicant should depend on. The immigration rules are very clear - it is 30 hrs/week. So HO can always insist on that.

The online form states 120 hours/month is FT and it also asks if an employee is FT or PT. So you declare that on the form. I believe HO acknowledges that.

It is still unclear if I was approved on 120 hours or 120hours*13 months that is 1560 hours. I did send in 2 months extra FPS later on as I did not want to take a risk (did the same at extension and ILR both.)
My employees did work 30 hours a week but the salary slips were made for 120 hours and 150 hours per month (8 months showed 120 hours as employee was paid for 4 weeks only in that month and paid for 5 weeks in the month showing 150 hours)

Having said that, I think 130 hours is the best way to do it but if an applicant is stuck in a situation and has no other choice or option rather than 120 hours a month is a safe bet, best to send in 13 months payslips to be on the safest side.

CULLINAN · Post by **CULLINAN** » Tue May 28, 2019 12:19 am

Also, my accountant has used the same logic for all his clients and none has been refused for 120 hours/month salary slips.

Just curious.. month of Feb is 28 days that is 4 weeks. So how can it be 130 hours in Feb? It should be 120 hours for Feb@30hrs/week and if Feb salary slips shows 130 hours should not the 10 extra hours be discarded by HO as anything more than 30 hours/week will not be counted?

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Tue May 28, 2019 5:41 am

tier11417 wrote: ↑
Tue May 28, 2019 12:19 am
Also, my accountant has used the same logic for all his clients and none has been refused for 120 hours/month salary slips.

Just curious.. month of Feb is 28 days that is 4 weeks. So how can it be 130 hours in Feb? It should be 120 hours for Feb@30hrs/week and if Feb salary slips shows 130 hours should not the 10 extra hours be discarded by HO as anything more than 30 hours/week will not be counted?

I repeat - there is no basis in immigration rules for either 120 or 130 hrs / month. The only basis is 30 hrs/week.

So if an employee only works for 2 weeks in a month and does 60 hrs, you get credit for 2 weeks. There is no need to even meet 120 hrs in that month - even if you are paying monthly.

The hours per month is used to simplify assessment, not to be a rule on its own.

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Tue May 28, 2019 5:53 am

ssilr wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 11:24 pm
Hi Marcnath & Aman,

Thanks for your responses.

I have already created a excel sheet for my reference. I am unable to paste the excel sheet in here. I have been trying in different ways to paste the excel here for the past 2 hours. But I couldn't and gave up now.

Could any one please let me know is there any way to paste the table here.

Thanks.

You don't need to attach the sheet here. As long as you can see for yourself that you meet 30 hrs/week or more, you are ok. Since you seem to have well above the 30 in some weeks at least, present it. For example, don't try to choose between F+D or F+ E, show F+D+E.
Your job table will include all employees anyway since the table is not month by month.
If you absolutely want to attach, you can try zipping the file and if It is less than 150k, you should be able to. But don't expect everyone to download unzip review and comment

aman90 · Post by **aman90** » Tue May 28, 2019 1:55 pm

ssilr wrote: ↑
Mon May 27, 2019 11:24 pm

I have already created a excel sheet for my reference. I am unable to paste the excel sheet in here. I have been trying in different ways to paste the excel here for the past 2 hours. But I couldn't and gave up now.

Could any one please let me know is there any way to paste the table here.

Thanks.

Screenshots..

ssilr · Post by **ssilr** » Tue May 28, 2019 9:15 pm

Hi Friends,

Sorry for the late reply. I have been very busy with the business and was an other hectic day.

Thanks Marcnath and Aman for your responses. I have finally managed a way to upload my emp table. Below is the Url link which shows the image of my emp table.

I would request Marcnath & Aman and other senior members to kindly click on the below link which will open a page in new window where you can see the image of the emp table. You dont need to download anything just a click.

Also please let me know if the link is wroking for you.

Emp table

I have given all the employees names with E and a letter for a better understanding for all.

Joining date of a employee is the month where the hours start. For example E1J Joined in June 2018. E9B Joined in April2019.

I have mentioned when a emp left the job in that particular month. For example E1J Resigned in Nov2018, E2P resigned in Jan2019. E8D resigned in Jan2019 and joined back to business from March 2019.

Currently E3V,E4K,E5A,E7T,E8D,E9B are still continuing in business.
Assuming E3V,E4K,E5A,E8D, work 130hours/ month for MAY ,JUNE where as the remaining above employees work less than 130 hours in a month.

Will I suffice the Job requirement criteria?

Marcnath and Aman please give me your responses.

Thanks in Advance.

ssilr · Post by **ssilr** » Tue May 28, 2019 9:25 pm

Hi Tier1 4117,

Firstly congrats on approval of your ILR. You have mentioned in your post that you have sent 2 months extra FPS, How did you do that. For example My Visa finishes in week Begining of July 2019 and I am planning to go for for ILR application in First week of July.

SO Can i send FPS for July and August2019?

A) Is it possible to send 2 months ahead FPS?

B) If possible will HO take those extra 2 months into consideration? as the Visa have already finished in July.

Kindly advise.

Thanks in Advance.

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