Slightly unusual situation

Hi all, I've been a long time lurker but I've finally decided to try get some help.

The situation is this. I (British citizen) have a girlfriend (also British citizen) and we live in England in a 1 bed flat.
I have an American girlfriend (genuine relationship) who wants to come and live in England with us.

I think I'd have to marry the American in vegas as to ensure a much easier process to marry rather than a UK marriage visa which is not really what she needs since she wants to come here and stay here. After the marriage, I'm thinking to apply for a spouse visa / family of a settled person so she can move here.
Then comes the housing requirements which is where I'm pretty stuck.
Do I put my current address in and say she will sleep on the sofa (which is where she has been sleeping before when she visits) or do I rent out another flat temporarily just to show them that I have flat for us that's big enough? (in all honesty, she will get her own place when she has a job and then move in when we move to a bigger house).

Another problem with using my current address is that they will ask who else lives in my address which would be my UK girlfriend and answering that might open up a load of questions for them and lead to the application being rejected because polyamorous relationships are not recognised.
The relationship is completely genuine, just need help with accommodation requirements and what to do considering my circumstances and if it's a good idea to go to Vegas to get married rather than the UK just to make the process easier.

Thank you all in advance.

You're on a road to nowhere with your plan for numerous reasons.

If you apply for a spouse visa for your girlfriend in the UK you will have to submit the tenancy agreement with a letter from the landlord agreeing to her residing in the flat. As you are already aware, you will also have to declare who is currently living in the accommodation and this is easily verified by the Entry Clearance Officer. The spouse (or fiance) visa application will come under the same rigorous scrutiny even if you rent larger accommodation.

Why would your wife 'sleeping on the sofa' be considered by the ECO as a genuine relationship between a married couple? This application will have 'sham relationship' all over it and as a means for your girlfriend in the USA to gain entry into the UK.

Thank you for your reply.

I am thinking of renting a separate accommodation that she will live in with me. I will put her name on the tenancy agreement if I can rent elsewhere which means it should satisfy the requirements right?
The living room can be considered as a room in terms of not being overcrowded I understood but of course, I may be wrong.


Thank you

I couldn't find the edit button...

Just to add that we have photos together, been to places together, shared some financial things together that we can prove. I've met her parents and she's met mine.

Thanks

Ukman1986 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:16 pm

I couldn't find the edit button...

Just to add that we have photos together, been to places together, shared some financial things together that we can prove. I've met her parents and she's met mine.

Thanks

That's not the issue. The fact that there will be single woman residing with the two of you in whichever accommodation which you share, will be evident and easily traceable. This will raise a red flag.

Ukman1986 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:53 am

we live in England in a 1 bed flat.

Ukman1986 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:07 pm

The living room can be considered as a room in terms of not being overcrowded I understood but of course, I may be wrong.

You can still meet accommodation requirement if your 1 bed flat has living room too and your landlord can issue you NOC letter.

Account is taken only of rooms with a floor area larger than 50 square feet and rooms of a type used either as a living room or bedroom.

seagul wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:41 pm

Ukman1986 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:53 am

we live in England in a 1 bed flat.

Ukman1986 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:07 pm

The living room can be considered as a room in terms of not being overcrowded I understood but of course, I may be wrong.

You can still meet accommodation requirement if your 1 bed flat has living room too and your landlord can issue you NOC letter.

Account is taken only of rooms with a floor area larger than 50 square feet and rooms of a type used either as a living room or bedroom.

@seagul, you've missed the issue. This is about convincing the ECO that this isn't a sham marriage, when the OP's intention is to live with both women in a polyamorous relationship.

In the opening post the OP was suggesting they state in the spouse visa application that the wife would sleep on the sofa!

Yes, the situation is unusual but nobody judges you for that

The problem is that the law as it is doesn't consider "menage a 3".

Your first girlfriend is British. This is a good thing. So for immigration purposes, remove her from the equation and don't mention her anywhere.

Avoid all this thing about sleeping in the sofa! You are just going to get a refusal if you go this route.

You probably need to rent a flat on your name only and change your address for there everywhere.

Good luck!

Hello Casa! your view about marriage/relationship is absolutely correct but I am only replying over accommodation which might not be overcrowded in OP's case. Since both are British and none of them need to show anywhere as being girlfriend/unmarried but still that case is extremely rare.

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:04 pm

Yes, the situation is unusual but nobody judges you for that

The problem is that the law as it is doesn't consider "menage a 3".

Your first girlfriend is British. This is a good thing. So for immigration purposes, remove her from the equation and don't mention her anywhere.

Avoid all this thing about sleeping in the sofa! You are just going to get a refusal if you go this route.

You probably need to rent a flat on your name only and change your address for there everywhere.

Good luck!

Girlfriend No.1 in the UK may not be too happy with this plan to remove her.

Girlfriend No.1 in the UK may not be too happy with this plan to remove her

Difficult, difficult... GF 1 in the UK is technically the mistress. She needs to cooperate somehow.

---

@OP:
Also, why are you marring in Vegas? Is your US girlfriend from there? Can you marry somewhere else in the States?

If there is something that triggers undue attention is a marriage certificate marked "Las Vegas" on top of it. In the UK, it would look like a novelty item.

Hi All!

Thank you all for your comments and please accept my apologies for any confusion I have caused. I was more stating that the living room could be considered a room in terms of meeting overcrowding requirements and that a sofa is a place she could sleep as I was aware that a living room would be considered a room. I have a 1 bedroom flat, it contains a bathroom, a living room, a Spam as all separate rooms to the bedroom.

For the accommodation requirements, the option I was thinking is that I rent a place elsewhere, a short term let, even a spare room rental (where I would have a closer relationship with the landlord/owner of the property) who could provide me with the authorisation letters I needed and state that both of us can live in their property just to fulfil the accommodation requirements. She will continue to live in that room/flat until we move to a larger house. On a separate note, my mum has a spare room however I don't think it can be used since she lives in a council house and is not the landlord? My UK girlfriend will not be on the application about other people living in the property, only the American and me. Maybe it is possible to move her to my mothers spare room some time after a visa is granted? I say this because it would be cheaper.

I wouldn't intend to live with both of them until we move into a big enough house, for now I only need to show on the application that I only intend to live with the American but I didn't want problems from using my current address where both me and my UK girlfriend are registered.

To anser about Vegas, it's the easiest state to get married in, no intrusive checks or anything like that. Just book your appointment to get the license, turn up and get married. I can't do this in the UK as I would need to show previous relationships have ended. The Vegas marriage is recognised as a legal marriage.

Thank you all again!

Ukman1986 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:27 pm

Hi, I just wondered how it's possible to use a houseboat (canal boat specifically) as the accommodation on a spouse visa since the boat wouldn't have title deeds. Would I just provide some other proof of ownership that I own the boat? How would a housing inspection work in this case?

Thanks

Your all queries are extraordinarily very rare and now you inserted the boat idea . But wherever you will keep that boat and if someone trying to fit in/live in then you must have to declare it to local council.

Thank you Seagul. Yes, I inserted the boat idea, I'm looking at all possibilities. I've never applied for a visa before, especially a spouse visa and so I'm looking at everything. It's fairly cheap to buy a small canal boat as opposed to buying a house (yes I still have the flat renting idea though) . I was wondering how it is possible to have the canal boat as an accepted accommodation for the visa or if it is already a permissible accommodation providing maybe that it's in a mooring and the tenants of the boat are registered to that mooring rather than having the boat only on a continuous cruiser license which has no fixed address. So are you saying It can be used as accepted accommodation?
Thank you!

Ukman1986 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:16 am

Thank you Seagul. Yes, I inserted the boat idea, I'm looking at all possibilities. I've never applied for a visa before, especially a spouse visa and so I'm looking at everything. It's fairly cheap to buy a small canal boat as opposed to buying a house (yes I still have the flat renting idea though) . I was wondering how it is possible to have the canal boat as an accepted accommodation for the visa or if it is already a permissible accommodation providing maybe that it's in a mooring and the tenants of the boat are registered to that mooring rather than having the boat only on a continuous cruiser license which has no fixed address. So are you saying It can be used as accepted accommodation?
Thank you!

Maybe you are referring to residential boat moorings which can be a temporary alternative to accommodation but not sure that whether can it convince the UKVI caseworker. You can read about it from British Waterways Marinas Ltd website:

https://bwml.co.uk/residential-moorings/?src=fp_banner

Why are you complicating things so much (aside from having two women sharing you, which will probably throw up its own challenges)? Simply say that the girl you are with now is just renting the place with you. She sleeps in one of the rooms and you sleep in the other. Do not say she is your girlfriend. Get her to write and say that she has no problem with your new wife living in the accommodation too, and that she will be finding alternative accommodation at a later date. Everyone is happy with the arrangement.

But, it would certainly be easier if your current GF rented her own place, even if she didn't live there. The only downside is the cost, but as soon as you get the spouse visa, you can dump the other property and do what you like.

Ukman1986 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:27 pm

To anser about Vegas, it's the easiest state to get married in, no intrusive checks or anything like that. Just book your appointment to get the license, turn up and get married. I can't do this in the UK as I would need to show previous relationships have ended. The Vegas marriage is recognised as a legal marriage.

Thank you all again!

Many states are like that... California, New York... but Las Vegas has drive-throughs at which to get it all done. The 'checks' consisted of the registrar asking if we were both free to marry...

I married in California. Picked up a license (no need for an appointment) and then got married the next day (not sure, it might be fine to do it on the same day but that's just how we did it).

TBF, marrying in Vegas doesn't raise eyebrows in the immigration circuits because it is a novelty. Yes, some people CHOOSE to get married by Elvis. Some people enjoy holidaying there too. And many people in genuine relationships marry before they would have chosen to because of immigration and Las Vegas has very little red tape when it comes to getting married (but so do many many other states!).