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1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

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CULLINAN
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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by CULLINAN » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:32 pm

marcnath wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:54 pm
tier11417 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:55 pm
You need to show 1560 hours/ year each employee.

1) Some people find it easy to just claim 130 hours every month to meet the criteria.

2) “However if you go for 30 hours a week criteria. Then not all months have 4 weeks. Some have 5 weeks.

So in that case some months come upto 120 hours (4 weeks month - 4*30hours) and others 150 hours (5 weeks month - 5*30hours).

In total it should be 1560 hours a year.”

Please correct me if i am wrong.
Yes, this is wrong !!!

Total hours is a wrong way of calculating.

As I quoted from the law, the only thing mentioned in the law is 30 hours / week.
So that means the 2nd part is correct then?

2) “However if you go for 30 hours a week criteria. Then not all months have 4 weeks. Some have 5 weeks.

So in that case some months come upto 120 hours (4 weeks month - 4*30hours) and others 150 hours (5 weeks month - 5*30hours). ??”
Last edited by CULLINAN on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sm12
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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by sm12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:38 pm

Atif786 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:54 pm
zimba88 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:49 pm
I argues several times before that the 120 per month is incorrect assumption and guidance writers made a mistake.
There reason you CANNOT claim 120 hours per month is that each month is always more than 4 weeks and in order for a job to be FULL TIME it has to be at least 30 hours per week. This means that 120 hours per month is not enough for any job to be FULL TIME.
I repeat again under the law, ONLY hours worked per week determines whether a job is full time or not, not total monthly hours.
Hi Zimba88, in one the posts you said that 120 hours are accepted as full time, as i am relying on 120 hours as full time for creating 2 full time posts as in the application form i haven't combined the 2 part time posts to make it 1 full time because i thought 120 hours/ month are enough to count as full time so i din't bother to combine 2 part time to make it full time however both the employees have worked for more than 24 months with 21 months for 120 hours or more .
uk-tier-1-entrepreneur-visas/120-hours- ... 27963.html
zimba88 wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:17 am
Rules view 30 hours a week as full time. The guide also says that 120 hours per month is acceptable too.
Also, stop creating several of thread for each question. You can ask all your questions in one thread :!:
120 hours per month is mentioned in the guidance for applicants. It's not in the caseworker's guidance or immigration rules. You should keep a copy of the applicants' guidance as proof, if required at a later stage.

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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by Atif786 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:03 pm

Thanks for the reply , but I have just checked application form and the latest policy guide for applicants , it clearly says 30 hours|week or 120 hours / month.
Annex F : Page no: 91
And we follow the policy guidance for applicants not to the case workers .
Secondly : initially in 2014-15 guidance they have given the examples of weekly full time work not monthly and there was a lot of confusion about it so later on UKVi amended the policy guidance and change it to weekly or monthly employment .
According to 30 hours/ week rule I have created employment for 11 months full time employment for 2 works each.
But if I follow 120hrs/month guidance so I have
created 22 months of full time employment for employee 1 and 16 months full time for employee 2.
I don't think it can be typo even in latest policy guide and application form .
I am confused
I have submitted my application on the 29/03/217
With the last RTI/FPS from Feb 2017 , however my visa was expiring in April 2017, had I submitted my application in April and included the march 2017 RTI / FPS it would have completed 12 months of full time for each employee with 30hrs/week rules and I would have at the Safest side .
Shall I post them RTI/FPS from march 2017 as well with a covering letter , will it be considered ? Or I don't need to do anything for now?
Zimb88 , Marcnath
Plz give me some clarification on it
Thanks
Atif

sm12
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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by sm12 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:16 pm

Atif786 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:03 pm
Thanks for the reply , but I have just checked application form and the latest policy guide for applicants , it clearly says 30 hours|week or 120 hours / month.
Annex F : Page no: 91
And we follow the policy guidance for applicants not to the case workers .
Secondly : initially in 2014-15 guidance they have given the examples of weekly full time work not monthly and there was a lot of confusion about it so later on UKVi amended the policy guidance and change it to weekly or monthly employment .
According to 30 hours/ week rule I have created employment for 11 months full time employment for 2 works each.
But if I follow 120hrs/month guidance so I have
created 22 months of full time employment for employee 1 and 16 months full time for employee 2.
I don't think it can be typo even in latest policy guide and application form .
I am confused
I have submitted my application on the 29/03/217
With the last RTI/FPS from Feb 2017 , however my visa was expiring in April 2017, had I submitted my application in April and included the march 2017 RTI / FPS it would have completed 12 months of full time for each employee with 30hrs/week rules and I would have at the Safest side .
Shall I post them RTI/FPS from march 2017 as well with a covering letter , will it be considered ? Or I don't need to do anything for now?
Zimb88 , Marcnath
Plz give me some clarification on it
Thanks
There's no harm in sending it. Send it via special delivery. I think it should be sent to the address where the biometric letter came from, but wait for others to confirm.

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marcnath
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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by marcnath » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:25 pm

sm12 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:16 pm
Atif786 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:03 pm
Thanks for the reply , but I have just checked application form and the latest policy guide for applicants , it clearly says 30 hours|week or 120 hours / month.
Annex F : Page no: 91
And we follow the policy guidance for applicants not to the case workers .
Secondly : initially in 2014-15 guidance they have given the examples of weekly full time work not monthly and there was a lot of confusion about it so later on UKVi amended the policy guidance and change it to weekly or monthly employment .
According to 30 hours/ week rule I have created employment for 11 months full time employment for 2 works each.
But if I follow 120hrs/month guidance so I have
created 22 months of full time employment for employee 1 and 16 months full time for employee 2.
I don't think it can be typo even in latest policy guide and application form .
I am confused
I have submitted my application on the 29/03/217
With the last RTI/FPS from Feb 2017 , however my visa was expiring in April 2017, had I submitted my application in April and included the march 2017 RTI / FPS it would have completed 12 months of full time for each employee with 30hrs/week rules and I would have at the Safest side .
Shall I post them RTI/FPS from march 2017 as well with a covering letter , will it be considered ? Or I don't need to do anything for now?
Zimb88 , Marcnath
Plz give me some clarification on it
Thanks
There's no harm in sending it. Send it via special delivery. I think it should be sent to the address where the biometric letter came from, but wait for others to confirm.
Agree, it is safer to send it in.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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marcnath
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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by marcnath » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:32 pm

tier11417 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:32 pm
marcnath wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:54 pm
tier11417 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:55 pm
You need to show 1560 hours/ year each employee.

1) Some people find it easy to just claim 130 hours every month to meet the criteria.

2) “However if you go for 30 hours a week criteria. Then not all months have 4 weeks. Some have 5 weeks.

So in that case some months come upto 120 hours (4 weeks month - 4*30hours) and others 150 hours (5 weeks month - 5*30hours).

In total it should be 1560 hours a year.”

Please correct me if i am wrong.
Yes, this is wrong !!!

Total hours is a wrong way of calculating.

As I quoted from the law, the only thing mentioned in the law is 30 hours / week.
So that means the 2nd part is correct then?

2) “However if you go for 30 hours a week criteria. Then not all months have 4 weeks. Some have 5 weeks.

So in that case some months come upto 120 hours (4 weeks month - 4*30hours) and others 150 hours (5 weeks month - 5*30hours). ??”
There are no months with 5 weeks. There is only one month with 4 weeks and that is February. All the other have 4 weeks + 2 or 3 days.

As me and Zimba have now stated a few times in this thread, the immigration rules only specify 30 hours/week. The guidance has added 120 hrs/month (which I agree with Zimba is a mistake). But, until it is corrected, you may have an argument against a rejection on that basis.

But where you can, try to avoid relying on it.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by Atif786 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:53 pm

Agree, it is safer to send it in.
[/quote]
Hi Marcnath, Thanks for the reply, i am planning to post the March 2017 Rti/Fps with covering letter but do i need to fill in the employment creation table from application form and post it as well because they will probably only consider the hours or Rti/fps for which we have claimed points in the application form?
what you suggest ? and shall i explain them that previous employment table was filled in considering 120 hours as full time however i have recently been suggested that only 130 hours/month are considered as full time .
or could you please rephrase it for me as to how to address this issue ?
thanks
Atif

sm12
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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by sm12 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:59 am

You should definitely say that you met the requirement as per the applicants' guidance (insert a copy of the page with the documents that you are sending).
You should also state that the form puts full time down as 120 hours/month.
Then you should state that you completed the table when you sent the application according to this definition, but that you wanted to send extra documents to show that you also meet the requirement if full-time is taken as 130 hours/month.
And yes, you should say that you are attaching the page from the form again to show how you meet the requirement when calculated on the basis of 130 hours/month.

So extra payslips, FPS documents, page from guidance, page from form filled in again, and cover letter.
Also, if any new employees are included when you fill in the form, then their passports/documents to prove right to work.

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CULLINAN
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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:08 am

marcnath wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:32 pm
tier11417 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:32 pm
marcnath wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:54 pm
tier11417 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:55 pm
You need to show 1560 hours/ year each employee.

1) Some people find it easy to just claim 130 hours every month to meet the criteria.

2) “However if you go for 30 hours a week criteria. Then not all months have 4 weeks. Some have 5 weeks.

So in that case some months come upto 120 hours (4 weeks month - 4*30hours) and others 150 hours (5 weeks month - 5*30hours).

In total it should be 1560 hours a year.”

Please correct me if i am wrong.
Yes, this is wrong !!!

Total hours is a wrong way of calculating.

As I quoted from the law, the only thing mentioned in the law is 30 hours / week.
So that means the 2nd part is correct then?

2) “However if you go for 30 hours a week criteria. Then not all months have 4 weeks. Some have 5 weeks.

So in that case some months come upto 120 hours (4 weeks month - 4*30hours) and others 150 hours (5 weeks month - 5*30hours). ??”
There are no months with 5 weeks. There is only one month with 4 weeks and that is February. All the other have 4 weeks + 2 or 3 days.

As me and Zimba have now stated a few times in this thread, the immigration rules only specify 30 hours/week. The guidance has added 120 hrs/month (which I agree with Zimba is a mistake). But, until it is corrected, you may have an argument against a rejection on that basis.

But where you can, try to avoid relying on it.

Source: Google search

“If you get paid weekly, there are several times a year that you'll take home five paychecks in a month instead of four.“

https://www.thebalance.com/five-paycheck-months-1387871
Personal opinion only, not to be mistaken for legal advice. Please DO NOT PM me for immigration advice. Love for All, Hatred for None.

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CULLINAN
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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by CULLINAN » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:16 am

As per the discussion here:

If we can only go by 30hours/week

Then every month has 4.3 weeks so on the payslip it must be 130hrs (30*4.3) through out for 12 months to qualify for 1560 (130*12) hours because 120hours a month will be only 1440 hours (120*12)

If you go by my argument 30hours/week: Then 120hours for months having 4 paychecks and 150 hours for months having 5 paychecks qualify for 1560 hours also as otherwise you cant differentiate the monthly hours on the payslips.

I am not sure but I did it this way.
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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by Atif786 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:43 am

So extra payslips, FPS documents, page from guidance, page from form filled in again, and cover letter.
Also, if any new employees are included when you fill in the form, then their passports/documents to prove right to work.
[/quote]

Thanks Buddy, i'll definitely do that, and i wish and hope they will consider it as the documents i am submitting are dated before my visa expiry date.

can anyone help me with the postal address please.
last time contact centre gave me this PO Box address but my documents were not collected for a week from that PO Box.
UK Border Agency
PO BOX 3468
S3 8WA Sheffield
South Yorkshire England
Can i Post them to his address?
Atif

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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by Bhavin002 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:50 am

Dear Gurus, Please help for 2nd. Admin Review.
The following 13 months period I claimed initially in application form. If we count 120 hrs/ month, I will still have 2 months less to prove in the AR. The employee also worked full time more than 120/hrs months during 2015- 2016 for about 5-6 months. But that period I didn't claim in the application. would they accept if I send them payslips for this period which can cover about 16 months of full time employment, would they consider as a new documents? I have provided full FPS/Payroll report from April 2014 to Jun 2016. But they only checked April 2014 - April 2015 period with payslips.
1st. Admin Review Rejected. Home office wordings:
The second job that of Mr... is recorded on your application form as being fulltime between April 2014 and the 30th. April 2015 we would therefore expect to see e4vidence that Mr... has worked at least 30 hrs. per week or 130 hrs per calendar month throughout this period. however payslips that have been provided to support your application show that he worked less than 130 hours for 6 of the 13 months that you have claimed that Mr... worked full time.

They Counted:
Month Ending - Hours
April 14 = 130
May 14 = 130
Jun 14 = 127
July 14 = 130
Aug 14 = 127
Sept 14 = 104
Oct 14 = 130
Nov 14 = 120
Dec 14 = 130
Jan 15 = 118
Feb 15 = 105
Mar 15 = 130
Apr 15 = 130
This demonstrates that only 7 months of full time work have been created for your 2nd .Employee Mr... therefore is not sufficient to meet the requirement of creating the equivalent of two full time jobs which have each existed for at least 12 months.

Many Thanks,

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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by marcnath » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:04 am

Unfortunately, they will not accept fresh documents as part of the AR process. You can do a fresh application with the full documents once the AR process is completed.

However, since you submitted the FPS for the entire period, you can try arguing that they should have used evidence flexibility and asked you for the remaining payslips.

Section 245AA(b) states:
(b) If the applicant has submitted the specified documents and:
(i) some of the documents within a sequence have been omitted (for example, if one page from a bank statement is missing) and the documents marking the beginning and end of that sequence have been provided;


While it strictly does not apply as you have not submitted the last payslip, the fact that some payslips have been provided could be used to argue that.

So, include the additional payslips as documents you would have provided if the CW had used 245AA.

Worth trying even if there is no guarantee of success.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by Atif786 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:25 pm

Hi Marcnath, I am posting additional payslip and RTI FPS for march 2017 to ukvi .
Applied on 29/03/2017
Visa was expiring on 8/04/2017
March RTI/ FPS and pay slips were generated on 31/03/2017.
My question is will they accept it as valid document for scoring point as it's generated before the expiry date but after application submission date .
Plz help
Thanks
Atif

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marcnath
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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by marcnath » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:31 pm

Atif786 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:25 pm
Hi Marcnath, I am posting additional payslip and RTI FPS for march 2017 to ukvi .
Applied on 29/03/2017
Visa was expiring on 8/04/2017
March RTI/ FPS and pay slips were generated on 31/03/2017.
My question is will they accept it as valid document for scoring point as it's generated before the expiry date but after application submission date .
Plz help
Thanks
Immigration rules state that :
(a) Subject to sub-paragraph (b) and where otherwise indicated, where Part 6A or any appendices referred to in Part 6A state that specified documents must be provided, the decision maker (that is the Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State) will only consider documents received by the Home Office before the date on which the application is considered.

It is not possible to determine what the date on which the application is considered is.

When the documents are generated should have no impact.

So, all you can do is send it as soon as possible, by same day special delivery and hope it gets to the CW before they start on your application.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by Atif786 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:37 pm

Thanks Marcnath, I am on the way to post them, cheers.
Atif

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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by Atif786 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:42 pm

HI Marcnath, what do you mean by this please?
"It is not possible to determine what the date on which the application is considered is"
Atif

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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by Atif786 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:05 pm

Hi Marcnath, or I have another point to rais , shall I also
Refill the job creation table and add part time employment of 2 employees from April 2015-oct 2016, to claim points for 1 full time .
( which was 120 hours per month each and I was considering it full time in the application alredy submitted ).
And the same 2 employee worked fully time more than 130 hours per month each for 11 months in March 2016- Feb 2017 . ( SO Can I fill in job creation table and claim pints for full time 11 months each ) .
Shall I do this way and resend the job creation table to make sure everything is covered .
Thanks
Atif

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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by Atif786 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:06 pm

Hi Marcnath, or I have another point to raise , shall I also
Refill the job creation table and add part time employment of 2 employees from April 2015-oct 2016, to claim points for 1 full time .
( which was 120 hours per month each and I was considering it full time in the application alredy submitted ).
And the same 2 employee worked fully time more than 130 hours per month each for 11 months in March 2016- Feb 2017 . ( SO Can I fill in job creation table and claim pints for full time 11 months each ) .
Shall I do this way and resend the job creation table to make sure everything is covered .
Thanks
Atif

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Re: 1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Post by marcnath » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:02 pm

Atif786 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:42 pm
HI Marcnath, what do you mean by this please?
"It is not possible to determine what the date on which the application is considered is"
It just means what it says - we don't know what considered means - is it when they start looking at your file or when they actually make the decision. And we also will not know which day your file is being looked at.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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