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Airport Immigration Problem

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

ishfaqsangra
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by ishfaqsangra » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:18 pm

Sad to know ,

Which Airport this unfortunate incident happen?

noajthan
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by noajthan » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:19 pm

hellostar wrote:Hi Noajthan
under this heading it says
You are the person who is liable to be detained.
And is there a stated reason?
There must be a reason.

If liable to be detained you could be detained at home or workplace as well as at an interview.
That may be more likely if you are a no-show.

It is unlikely to be same front-line officer who interviews you.
And at interview you can state your case - and clear your name.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

hellostar
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by hellostar » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:33 pm

noajthan wrote:
hellostar wrote:Hi Noajthan
under this heading it says
You are the person who is liable to be detained.
And is there a stated reason?
There must be a reason.

If liable to be detained you could be detained at home or workplace as well as at an interview.
That may be more likely if you are a no-show.

It is unlikely to be same front-line officer who interviews you.
And at interview you can state your case - and clear your name.
Hi Noajthan
but if we sent PAP letter
dont they have to give answer for that letter first then they can take action ?

hellostar
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by hellostar » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:34 pm

ishfaqsangra wrote:Sad to know ,

Which Airport this unfortunate incident happen?
Heathrow

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Zimba
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by Zimba » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:12 pm

noajthan wrote:It is unlikely to be same front-line officer who interviews you.
And at interview you can state your case - and clear your name.
When the leave is curtailed, the interview is pretty much redundant to me. The immigration rules allow such step to take place if the applicant broke the law or his/her circumstances have changed completely from the time the leave was issued. The border force has already taken such action and curtailed the leaves which means they clearly have the evidence of this (at least in their mind). Asking the applicant and his entire family to go to airport to be interviewed is pretty much a call for detention and immediate deportation, not a way to re-instate the visa or clearing his name. That only could happen in court where the decision of border force can be challenged and HO will be ordered to re-instate the leave.

As I linked above, there are several incidents like this which show border force IOs have acted illegally.
I am inclined to say that the you better pursue the PAP and prepare to challenge border force decision to curtail your leave in the court.
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

hellostar
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by hellostar » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:20 pm

zimba88 wrote:
noajthan wrote:It is unlikely to be same front-line officer who interviews you.
And at interview you can state your case - and clear your name.
When the leave is curtailed, the interview is pretty much redundant to me. The immigration rules allow such step to take place if the applicant broke the law or his/her circumstances have changed completely from the time the leave was issued. The border force has already taken such action and curtailed the leaves which means they clearly have the evidence of this (at least in their mind). Asking the applicant and his entire family to go to airport to be interviewed is pretty much a call for detention and immediate deportation, not a way to re-instate the visa or clearing his name. That only could happen in court where the decision of border force can be challenged and HO will be ordered to re-instate the leave.

As I linked above, there are several incidents like this which show border force IOs have acted illegally.
I am inclined to say that the you better pursue the PAP and prepare to challenge border force decision to curtail your leave in the court.
thats exactly what i am thinking to do now PAP and then JR
but i think you missed one of my comments
i have received another letter which clearly says DO not bring your family on this occasion. and my interview date has been extended to March

samaygrg
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by samaygrg » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:24 pm

hellostar wrote:
ishfaqsangra wrote:Sad to know ,

Which Airport this unfortunate incident happen?
Heathrow

very unfortunate news to hear.

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Casa
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by Casa » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:38 pm

As Noajthan has commented (and still awaits a response), there must be stated reasons for the curtailment. And these are... :?:
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

ukbiz
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by ukbiz » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:05 pm

noajthan wrote:
hellostar wrote:
CR001 wrote:Start a JR against what? An interview?? Waste of money if you think of doing this.

Go to the interview, be fully prepared, nothing else you can do at this stage.
JR against how they treated as like we are criminal or illegal and JR against we have already provided all these documents and we got successfully visa extended why they are asking again and bothering us. these are the wording from solicitors so i am not sure right or wrong i am just writing what i am being advised by solicitors. let me know does it make sense ?
This is silly.
A visa is not a guarantee. You are still subject to immigration control.

Look at the letter from IO, read the basis on which it was issued - there must be a justifiable reason for such an interview as per Regulation xyz.

Grounds for judicial review is


Public bodies can only generally do what the law allows
them to do. The law is set out in Acts of Parliament and
in regulations, rules and orders made by government
ministers.

Public bodies must correctly understand and apply the
law that regulates their decision-making powers. If they
do not follow the law correctly their decision, action,
or failure to act will be unlawful. An action or decision
may be unlawful if the decision maker had no power to
make it or exceeded the powers given to him/her, or if
it misapplies the law.


Source: Short Guide 03 An Introduction to Judicial Review | 7
http://www.publiclawproject.org.uk/data ... 3_1305.pdf


There is NO POINT to go for interview if the leave has been curtailed and JR is ON for the reason that IO exceeded the powers given to him and misapplies the law as the poor chap has invested his lifetime savings, invested his energies and time and followed all immigration rules required under T1 initial and extension application and satisfied HO caseworker teams as being compliant under T1 category and now this IO (claiming himself above rules & law) decided to curtail his leave based on his guess !

If that is the case then all Tier 1 immigrants be careful don't travel and be remain in the UK until you get ILR as if you may encounter with same IO ,he may use his "RIGHT" to curtail your leave because your visa is not a guarantee you are in continuous "IMMIGRATION CONTROL" no matter how much you have invested, how genuine you are !

Under T1 Entrepreneur UK government encouraged you to contribute into UK economy but sorry you will remain under strict immigration control by IO like him and he can curtail your visa at the desk any time! THIS IS OUTRAGE

Hellostar, By suggesting you to go for the interview some members seems to agree and defending IO unlawful act but if your visa has been curtailed and if you are Genuine Entrepreneur then proceed for JR process without wasting any further time.

noajthan
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by noajthan » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:17 pm

I am not proposing or condoning any illegal act by IO or by OP.
And at this stage noone can describe an IO doing their job as committing an unlawful act.
Despite shrill cries of outrage no such hard evidence has been presented.

The OP has only just shared the fact he has been issued with IS96, a multi-purpose document, actually issued instead of detaining someone.
My initial posts were made before that brief information was shared.

All OP initially posted was he has had an interview arranged for a later date because he/family were too tired to be interviewed on the day when stopped at the airport.
So a no-doubt equally weary IO showed some compassion and spared the family further delay after a tiring day.
No sign of victimisation so far.

It is also clear OP's answers did not satisfy IO and a defensive attitude (plus inability to answer legitimate and simple business-related questions) set IO's spidey senses tingling.
The OP has done himself no favours here.

A JR is those circumstances would be silly, rather than addressing the issue at hand.

T1 visa holders are under immigration control. Face it - its a fact.
Just as any guest worker in any country I can think of would be - and I have been one myself (as well as a small business owner).

The mere fact of holding a T1 visa and investing in UK plc (as per visa requirements) and of paying tax to HMRC (as obliged) does not buy immunity or special treatment in any shape or form - why should it?!

T1 visas are on record as being much abused too - as evidenced by the recent MAC report on future of T1.
So the issue of a visa should not be treated as a carte blanche.

It is still not clear whether PAP, JR and a bunch of barristers would be proportionate or not because OP has still not intimated the reasons for curtailment
Nor whether he is now prohibited from working.
It may be prudent to get a lawyer to check that rather than drafting a PAP.

So up to now noone can judge that an IO is operating beyond his powers.
After all an IO is not a one-man band (as a T1 business typically is); all critical decisions are vetted and endorsed by CEOs and HEOs up the chain of command as per strict protocol.

And noone should advise T1s not to travel. Many do. Some are questioned (as all travellers can expect to be).
Just as my family have been questioned in the past even when they had ILR.
Even as I have been questioned in US when travelling on a British passport.
Only a small number of T1s report issues such as this.

But a knee-jerk PAP and JR and automatic cries of "outrage!" are symptomatic of a legalistic and unassimilated mindset.
Going into denial and 'hiding' from an interview could make matters worse.

And if anyone is unclear of the rights and powers of IOs then suggest look them up:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... tv16.0.pdf

(as well keeping abreast of the subleties and nuances of UK NI classes, rates and categories).
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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CR001
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by CR001 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:47 pm

This will be my only post in this topic and I remain completely neutral, but I would be very interested to know the IO's version of events. We are only being told one side of the sequence of events and requests for certain bits of information seem to be ignored.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Zimba
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by Zimba » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:01 pm

noajthan wrote:And is there a stated reason?
There must be a reason.
We shall wait to hear back from OP regarding the above query. It would be much better to understand what exactly is the stated reason on the letter for the curtailment of the leave. As I said above and based on the rules, curtailment means that the applicant has broke the law which possibly have been clear to IOs at the airport.
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

ukbiz
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by ukbiz » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:15 pm

Yeh agreed, IO was doing his Job and he searched toddler (under 3) pockets to see if his father is a genuine entrepreneur but bad luck of his father that IO could not find any substantial evidence from his pockets!

Searching a toddler's pocket (like a criminal ) by IO is Justifiable and is not OUTRAGE ? and is not a violation of the Human Rights Act 1998.( Public organisations must treat everyone equally, with fairness, dignity and respect irrespective of nationality and resident status).

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Zimba
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by Zimba » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:53 pm

- There is no evidence yet that the whole fiasco was to check 'the genuineness of business' . The reason is still not clear
- Anyone can be thoroughly searched at the airport by the border force, even toddlers
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

noajthan
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by noajthan » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:57 pm

ukbiz wrote:Yeh agreed, IO was doing his Job and he searched toddler (under 3) pockets to see if his father is a genuine entrepreneur but bad luck of his father that IO could not find any substantial evidence from his pockets!

Searching a toddler's pocket (like a criminal ) by IO is Justifiable and is not OUTRAGE ? and is not a violation of the Human Rights Act 1998.( Public organisations must treat everyone equally, with fairness, dignity and respect irrespective of nationality and resident status).
Calm down and get a grip.
Suggest drop the victim mindset, it won't help anyone progress in this culture and business environment.
How can anyone hope to run a successful enterprise anywhere if they have not yet graduated from the University of Life and Hard Knocks?

My wife was searched in Lidl yesterday, the alarm went off at the entrance. False alarm. False positive.
(Naturalised British citizen; Nepalese security guard).
Was she annoyed and embarassed? Yes.
Did she run screaming to a HR lawyer? No.
Does Lidl have a right to secure its premises and ensure its business interests? Yes, of course.
Article 8 is a qualified right and as such the right to a private and family life and respect for the home and correspondence may be limited.
So while the right to privacy is engaged in a wide number of situations, the right may be lawfully limited.
Suggest get up to speed on HR here:
https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk ... amily-life

And it appears some members also need to get up to speed on concepts of leave to remain as well as freedom from immigration time restrictions / immigration control. I leave that as an exercise for the interested reader.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

hamalt66
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by hamalt66 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:50 am

CR001 wrote:
hamalt66 wrote:
hellostar wrote: ...... which Schedule NI you are paying to your employee is it Schedule 1 or Schedule 2 i said i dont know its accountant works not mine , and he replied as a businessman you should know this i replied i pay to accountant for all these jobs why should i know this. and he didnt even listen to me .....
Anyone knows what are these NI Schedules? I never heard of such thing!
Start with link below.

https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-r ... tion-rates
CR001 the link above doesn't explain what Schedules are! It only describes the different classes and categories for NI and income tax payments according to the size of the employee's salary!!

hamalt66
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by hamalt66 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:02 am

zimba88 wrote:
noajthan wrote:And is there a stated reason?
There must be a reason.
We shall wait to hear back from OP regarding the above query. It would be much better to understand what exactly is the stated reason on the letter for the curtailment of the leave. As I said above and based on the rules, curtailment means that the applicant has broke the law which possibly have been clear to IOs at the airport.
Is it possible that the last destination of the OP is the reason for all of this?!!!!

Imran 1981
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by Imran 1981 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:50 am

Guys, I think IP meant by Schedules that whether the employer is paying Class 1 NI or Class 2 NI. If you are self employed you generally pay Class 2 and if employer then you pay Class 1 NI for your employees.

I feel that its more an unfortunate event that Hellostar found a tough IO and further bad luck that he didn't responded appropriately to his questions. This could be a reason that IO would have made his mind to call him for the interview. Please note that this category has been abused significantly by the applicants for availing 3 years visa or also meeting their 10 years long residency and not doing entrepreneurial activity.

I would strongly suggest Hellostart to go for an interview. The reason is that the worst could happen that in the interview, his visa would be curtailed. Even though, after that he would always have the option to challenge that decision in JR. On the other hand, there is a possibility that he perform well in the coming interview and there is no need for JR. PLEASE NOTE THAT IF HE FAILS TO ATTEND THE INTERVIEW THAN THIS WILL BE AN AGGRAVATING FACTOR IN HIS JR APPLICATION AS WELL AS THE JUDGE WILL TAKE CONSIDERATION THAT BY FAILING TO ATTEND, HELLOSTAR BECAME A DEVIL OF HIMSELF.

noajthan
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by noajthan » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:14 am

hamalt66 wrote:CR001 the link above doesn't explain what Schedules are! It only describes the different classes and categories for NI and income tax payments according to the size of the employee's salary!!
The key word above was Start...
Noone is here to spoonfeed anyone.
That kind of mindset is fundamentally flawed and limiting.
Just as there are no useful Identikit business plans and its pointless learning 'GET' interview questions by rote
- all as other members are wont (tend) to do.

If a member reports his leave was apparently curtailed at least partly due to his lack of ability to answer questions on UK business practice and his business(including NI) then that should be a wakeup call ...
  • Learn your own business;
    Fire so-called advisors that mask and hinder your business operations from you - rather than teaching and briefing you;
    Get up to speed on the market and the legislative framework in which you operate;
    Know your staff;
    Become best ambassador and best salesperson for your company;
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Zimba
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by Zimba » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:05 pm

Again, we are still waiting to hear what the letter says as the reason for curtailment and OP has not shared this here yet :!:
Arguing on what has happened without having all the information will be fruitless :?
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

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Casa
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by Casa » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:11 pm

I suggest that if member hellostar wants constructive advice, he co-operates by providing information on the reasons stated for curtailment. Otherwise the thread will be locked as we're all wasting time and getting nowhere with this. :idea:
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

Jazz2007
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by Jazz2007 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:29 pm

Exactly, It looks we are just Beating around the Bush.

Amazed to see so many members trying to help....

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CR001
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by CR001 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:30 pm

syed0083 wrote:Amazed to see so many members trying to help....
That is what we are here for, but if members don't post information that has been requested or post based on emotion rather than facts, no one on the forum can help unfortunately.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

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Casa
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Re: Airport Immigration Problem

Post by Casa » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:05 pm

@hellostar I can see that you been logging in and I assume that you have read the advice given.

As you are no longer contributing from your side, there doesn't appear to be any point in continuing with the thread. It will now be locked, but I'm sure everyone who has been attempting to assist you will wish you well.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

hellostar
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Airport Immigration Problem2

Post by hellostar » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:47 pm

Hi Guys
accept my apology for not replying on time as i have been out for the whole day today to have meeting with different solicitors . If Administrator reopen that thread so i can continue that one and i have some other options after discussing with solicitors today which i want to share and discuss with you guys.. Administrator CASA can you please reopen that thread...

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