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REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

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soloogah
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REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by soloogah » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:38 pm

PLEASE COULD ANYONE ASSIST ME HERE. MANY THANKS
Decision Summary

We have considered your application on behalf of the secretary of State and your application has been refused under the immigration rule, careful consideration has been given to the following;

1: You were granted leave to enter the united Kingdom as a student Migrant until 31st Oct 2010.
2: On 06 August 2010, you were granted leave to remain in the UK as tier one Post study until august 2012

3: On 28th May 2013 you were granted Leave to remain in the UK as a tier 1 enterpreneur until 28th May 2016.

NON POINT SCORING REASONS FOR REFUSAL

You have applied for leave to remain in the UK as a tier 1 entrepreneur, but the secretary of state is not satisfied on the balance of probability that;

*** You have genuinely invested the money refereed to in the table 5
***You do not intend to take employment other than the terms of the paragraph 245DE

In making the assessment above, the following factors have been considered;

i)the evidence that you have submitted
ii) the viability and credibility of the source of the money referred to in table 5
iii) the credibility of the financial account and the business or businesses.
iv) the credibility of your business in the UK
V) the credibility of the Job creation you are claiming point from
vi) If the nature of the business requires mandatory accreditation, registration and or insurance
vii) any other relevant information


Evidence you have submitted
* Letter from 8888 accounting and integrated Services Ltd dated 8th May 2016 detailing share capital and job creation respectively.
**
*Letter from 888(my company) about funds and documentation
*Loan agreement between ***(ME) and third parties as listed on the agreement dated jan 2015 together with Lawyer's letter and affidavit about a third parties
*Directors Loan agreement
*Current appointment report
*HMRC corporate tax, letter and PAYE details for the company
**business statement showing business transactions from Feb 2016 upto May 2016
**Unaudited financial statement for the company
* CT 600
** Member of institute of consulting
**personal bank statement for maintainance funds
** PAYE AND NIC payment slips for the company
* pay slips, P11,P32,P45,P60, RTI payment summaries, FPS infomations,
** Passport copies for employees
**Degree certificate and transcript
*companies house information about my company
*google map street view
*copies of website pages

(ii) the Viability and the credibility of the source of funds
NO specific concern

(iii) The credibility of the financial account of the business or businesses

when asked on the interview in Sept 2nd, (Q14) your profit and lost account for the year ending 2015, about your other incomes which was £19,000, can you name 3 top clients of yours which you did, but there is no indication in your business bank statement of the names of this clients of yours.

when asked at the interview (Q17) about your profit and lost for the year ended 2015 of an administrative cost of £30,0000. Can you provide details of how the money was spent.
You replied YES, the expenses includes insurance policy, through the federation of small businesses, rent, car for the running of the business, wages.

you were unable to clearly state how you spent the £30k

At the interview, (Q32) you were asked if you have invested the £50k and for breakdown if yes.

your replied that majority was spent on furniture and fittings, this is to sort the property where we are to give a corporate image and that took money, furnitures, carpets, an automatic door lock system, cold and hot water system, security alarms and CCTV, TELECOMs and computer trunking and wiring movable partitions.

----I can find NO payment to any company within your business bank statement that would provide this products.

---We also have a google map printout from august 2016 of your address showing a different business name.
-- We would expect a business that has invested such in the premises as claimed in the interview to prioritise the exterior of their premises to show their business.
This leads us to doubt the credibility of your financial accounts.

(iv) The credibility of your business activity in the UK
At the interview, you were asked (Q9,10 AND 11)

How do you get your clients?
You replied -- Marketing is the backbone of businesses and referral is focused once we have a client, we offer them trust and then they pass on their experience with us to others and get referrals.

what method do you use?

you answered, we have a website and do use social media as well.

how many clients have you attracted in the last 3 months through social media

you answered "i can't say exactly, but about 3

---your website has not been updated for about 3 years now.


at Interview, you were asked (Q28) What service do you provide for these contracts?

You replied--- The services we provide,---- businesses are being left handicapped, they need professionals to help them and guide them, so we come in to bridge the gap to give professional advice on management policies and how to enhance their performance.


--- These replies do not reflect the information on your website that state that you provide a wide range of business consultancy nor do they explain the services you provided.

Companies house shows that you deal on Whole sale of lighting and furniture, lighting equipment and and Management consultancy activities other than financial management.

--You have never mentioned Wholesale of Furniture and Lighting at the interview. and you never mentioned anything about the business name on your business address.

(V) THE CREDIBILITY OF JOB CREATION
no specific concern in this area.

(vi) other relevant information
NO specific concern in this area.

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CR001
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by CR001 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:48 pm

What is your question???

What are your responses to each point of refusal??

It is unreasonable to post a long refusal with only 'PLEASE COULD ANYONE ASSIST ME HERE. MANY THANKS' without you providing any information as to why HO is correct or not correct.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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marcnath
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by marcnath » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:28 pm

I sympathise with you. I don't think UKVI are truly qualified to assess genuine entrepreneurship, so these cases can happen.

Expecting a business owner to remember every single transaction in a three year period is unrealistic.

So is the expectation that 4 months of bank statements is expected to reflect all transactions they would like to see.

Having said that, an entrepreneur is expected to be clear on his/her business objectives, strategies, etc. and some of the answers could have been done better - maybe you were nervous or something.

But, unfortunately, this is your business and it is difficult to help you with that as we would not know the details needed.

As CR001 said, if you have any specific questions, please do ask those.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by jafersadeq » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:43 pm

Did you submit 3 years business bank statements,
I think yes, because they checked all incomes into your business bank account.

I think sending the recent 4 or 3 months bank statements will be better to avoid problems such that.

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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by marcnath » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:57 pm

jafersadeq wrote:Did you submit 3 years business bank statements,
I think yes, because they checked all incomes into your business bank account.

I think sending the recent 4 or 3 months bank statements will be better to avoid problems such that.
The evidence documents only show 4 months statements.
But there are still quite a few extra documents that were submitted.
I agree with @jafersadeq that you should only submit the minimum required documents.
Submitting only the exact documents needed conveys your confidence in your application. And the CW has to do the extra work to ask for additional documents, if they want to investigate. That already gives you an idea of what they are looking for so you can submit accordingly.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

hina_pirzada
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by hina_pirzada » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:31 pm

Hi very sad to hear ur refusal. But do not despair. Could you please tell me did u attend interview at the time initial application?

I have read your refusal 3 times and I found many dark areas. The first question they raised about £19000 income. And you have only submitted 4 month Business Bank Statement. So most of the question they asked from the submitted accounts. If you are in position to justify these £19000 so you can include it in admin review. If these £19000 not showing the bank statement you submitted but its showing on previous bank statement with clients u have mention the name so u can go ahead.

Second question they raised about £30000 you spent. Which u stated that the money spent on wages and other expenses. Again the same issue you submitted only 4 months statement , so if you have record of these spent like invoices or proper bank transactions so you can clarify in admin review.

Other questions like business address, Website not updated for last three years, marketing strategies and etc are all irrelevant and I do not find any major issue.

The last and very important or darkest side is the services you have mentioned on your website do not match the actual services you have mentioned in interview I don't know why? even companies house has different business information as well and also you did not mention business name at your business address.

I would like to ask you a few question

1. Are you operating from home?
2. Are you operating from Business Centre where other business exits?
3. Did you apply alone?
4. How long you have been in the UK. (Think you came here in 2009)
5. Do you have any family life here.

They have no issue with your source of funds and employment creation the only issue is, you used the Accountant which I think he failed to manage your accounts. Most likely you tell your accountant about your income and expenditure break down.

The same think was happened with my accounts. My accountant rung me and told me the accounts are ready to send. I hold him and visited him where I found he break the expenditure wrongly so I spent least 3 hours with him to correct the figures.

I advise you to go in Admin review and than go yo JR.

Please answer my question.

soloogah
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by soloogah » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:20 am

hina_pirzada wrote:Hi very sad to hear ur refusal. But do not despair. Could you please tell me did u attend interview at the time initial application?

I have read your refusal 3 times and I found many dark areas. The first question they raised about £19000 income. And you have only submitted 4 month Business Bank Statement. So most of the question they asked from the submitted accounts. If you are in position to justify these £19000 so you can include it in admin review. If these £19000 not showing the bank statement you submitted but its showing on previous bank statement with clients u have mention the name so u can go ahead.

Second question they raised about £30000 you spent. Which u stated that the money spent on wages and other expenses. Again the same issue you submitted only 4 months statement , so if you have record of these spent like invoices or proper bank transactions so you can clarify in admin review.

Other questions like business address, Website not updated for last three years, marketing strategies and etc are all irrelevant and I do not find any major issue.

The last and very important or darkest side is the services you have mentioned on your website do not match the actual services you have mentioned in interview I don't know why? even companies house has different business information as well and also you did not mention business name at your business address.

I would like to ask you a few question

1. Are you operating from home?
2. Are you operating from Business Centre where other business exits?
3. Did you apply alone?
4. How long you have been in the UK. (Think you came here in 2009)
5. Do you have any family life here.

They have no issue with your source of funds and employment creation the only issue is, you used the Accountant which I think he failed to manage your accounts. Most likely you tell your accountant about your income and expenditure break down.

The same think was happened with my accounts. My accountant rung me and told me the accounts are ready to send. I hold him and visited him where I found he break the expenditure wrongly so I spent least 3 hours with him to correct the figures.

I advise you to go in Admin review and than go yo JR.

Please answer my question.
--------------------------------

Many thanks for attending to my post. I came to the UK July 2008,

What happened is that i operate more than one businesses, but i only used the management consultancy service for the tier 1 entrepreneur VISA because other of my businesses are not classified as graduate activity. The sign on the shop and the business name is still mine but not exactly the company i used for the application.

**so my business is registered with the Company House and HMRC on that address as where i operate from.
**My application is on the 50k category and i applied alone.
** My wife and children are all here as my defendants.
** My wife joined me 5 years ago, my first daughter is 6 years now, but she was not born here. She joined me when she was just 4 months. I have other kids of the age of 4yr and 2yr born in the UK.

i present business bank statement for about 12months period just to show when the 50k came in to my business account, and that is the only reason i sent 12months statement.

Please, i need advice on how to clear the air about the different name/sign on that my business address.
Again, any general advice would be appreciated.

thanks

soloogah
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by soloogah » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:24 am

marcnath wrote:
jafersadeq wrote:Did you submit 3 years business bank statements,
I think yes, because they checked all incomes into your business bank account.

I think sending the recent 4 or 3 months bank statements will be better to avoid problems such that.
The evidence documents only show 4 months statements.
But there are still quite a few extra documents that were submitted.
I agree with @jafersadeq that you should only submit the minimum required documents.
Submitting only the exact documents needed conveys your confidence in your application. And the CW has to do the extra work to ask for additional documents, if they want to investigate. That already gives you an idea of what they are looking for so you can submit accordingly.

------------------
I only submitted 12months business bank statement just to include the date the main investment funds(50k) came into my account and that is the reason. Thanks Please advice

soloogah
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by soloogah » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:32 am

marcnath wrote:I sympathise with you. I don't think UKVI are truly qualified to assess genuine entrepreneurship, so these cases can happen.

Expecting a business owner to remember every single transaction in a three year period is unrealistic.

So is the expectation that 4 months of bank statements is expected to reflect all transactions they would like to see.

Having said that, an entrepreneur is expected to be clear on his/her business objectives, strategies, etc. and some of the answers could have been done better - maybe you were nervous or something.

But, unfortunately, this is your business and it is difficult to help you with that as we would not know the details needed.

As CR001 said, if you have any specific questions, please do ask those.
-----

thanks CR001 and everyone, the essence of the lengthy refusal note is just to bring clear picture of the situation, the interview was not hectic and i answered based on what my business does, my website states that we offer management consultancy services and this is exactly my answer on the interview, given business advice and positioning businesess to have a competitive edge.

with the Company house, i have 3 SIC codes registered, which includes wholesale of furniture equipment, Lighting and the management consultancy. Businesses are not limited to engage ONLy in one activity. Please advice. Many thanks guys

soloogah
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by soloogah » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:44 am

soloogah wrote:
marcnath wrote:I sympathise with you. I don't think UKVI are truly qualified to assess genuine entrepreneurship, so these cases can happen.

Expecting a business owner to remember every single transaction in a three year period is unrealistic.

So is the expectation that 4 months of bank statements is expected to reflect all transactions they would like to see.

Having said that, an entrepreneur is expected to be clear on his/her business objectives, strategies, etc. and some of the answers could have been done better - maybe you were nervous or something.

But, unfortunately, this is your business and it is difficult to help you with that as we would not know the details needed.

As CR001 said, if you have any specific questions, please do ask those.
-----

thanks CR001 and everyone, the essence of the lengthy refusal note is just to bring clear picture of the situation, the interview was not hectic and i answered based on what my business does, my website states that we offer management consultancy services and this is exactly my answer on the interview, given business advice and positioning businesess to have a competitive edge.

with the Company house, i have 3 SIC codes registered, which includes wholesale of furniture equipment, Lighting and the management consultancy. Businesses are not limited to engage ONLy in one activity. Please advice. Many thanks guys
the question about the £19,000 was picked from my company's financial account ended year 2015 not from my bank account. Its from account submitted to the Company's house. the £19k is other income while the £30k is also declared in the finacial statement as adminstrative cost(expenses). this money was spent from the 70k i invested, though 50k is the required amount but just invested 70k.

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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by hina_pirzada » Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:04 am

How many companies you have registered? Operating other business is not a issue. Also let me know what kind of business you claim in your application and business type?

R u in position to justify £19000? How this money came into your account? or it was a cash sale? Normally Accountant follow BANK STATEMENT and this is the accounting rule anything you can spend via bank statement or take the cash out from the Business for some purpose.

You have only few points to clear. Ask your accountant how you satisfy the Admin Review team. Also can u pls tell me how long you are away from your daughter 7 years residence in UK? give me the exact date.

If you have grounds to cover your point so i suggest you to go in Admin Review otherwise you can submit Human right application on behalf of private life in the UK. Through this you can gain time and your daughter will fall under 7 years category.

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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by Momi » Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:42 am

These are the stupid reasons of refusals I ever come across.
Now you have less than a year to complete 10 years.
Go for admin review and try to give as much information as possible and if nothing comes out then go for human rights or you can reapply to gain time.

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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by sameerb » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:18 am

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your refusal,

Elephant in the room is, you invested all the money only 12 mths & you have provided 12 mths bank statements. So UKVI has absolutely all the data with them. If they are saying they can't find any details of expanses, income in those 12months than how did u spend and earn these amounts,

soloogah
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by soloogah » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:44 pm

hina_pirzada wrote:How many companies you have registered? Operating other business is not a issue. Also let me know what kind of business you claim in your application and business type?

R u in position to justify £19000? How this money came into your account? or it was a cash sale? Normally Accountant follow BANK STATEMENT and this is the accounting rule anything you can spend via bank statement or take the cash out from the Business for some purpose.

You have only few points to clear. Ask your accountant how you satisfy the Admin Review team. Also can u pls tell me how long you are away from your daughter 7 years residence in UK? give me the exact date.

If you have grounds to cover your point so i suggest you to go in Admin Review otherwise you can submit Human right application on behalf of private life in the UK. Through this you can gain time and your daughter will fall under 7 years category.
Once again, many thanks for your time. My daughter came to england in February 2012 and she was only 4months then. I have only 12months or less to complete 10 years continuous resident in the UK.

I only registered one Company which is business management consultancy firm (we give business advice and formulate strategies for small businesses), though i included in the company House other SIC code that shows that i do other businesses like whole sale of equipments other than management consulting. But in my interview, i never mentioned such because its immaterial as i was not claiming point from such.


For the £19k, it is a cash and bank transfer payments to my company account and even one of the regular person/customer that always pay me with the reference as ""service charge"", i forgot to make mention of that customer as my top 3 client when asked, then the interviewer later asked me who is that Mr XYZ, at that point i included him as one of the top 3 client, but on this refusal note, that particular customer was not mentioned.

For the period i presented the bank statement, i have more than 1000 transactions which includes cash inflows and out flows. Some were cash and others transfers.

In that interview, i was not asked the method the clients used in paying for my services, and its ONLY bank transfers and card payment through card machines that reflects the name of the person/company that paid. So i could claim that they paid in cash or even cheque as cheques deposits doesn't show the name of the issuer. But in real sense, those clients made cash deposit payments.

the sign/name on the premises is also another business of mine, but not a limited company, its just a sole trading business. Please any idea how to clarify that point raised ?

Kindly advice.

soloogah
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by soloogah » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:50 pm

Momi wrote:These are the stupid reasons of refusals I ever come across.
Now you have less than a year to complete 10 years.
Go for admin review and try to give as much information as possible and if nothing comes out then go for human rights or you can reapply to gain time.
thanks for your comments, does the ADMIN Review requires me to submit additional paperwork or just an explanation and my comments on what i think the caseworker did wrong?

soloogah
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by soloogah » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:53 pm

sameerb wrote:Hi,

Sorry to hear about your refusal,

Elephant in the room is, you invested all the money only 12 mths & you have provided 12 mths bank statements. So UKVI has absolutely all the data with them. If they are saying they can't find any details of expanses, income in those 12months than how did u spend and earn these amounts,
in the period the bank statement was submitted, more than 600 transactions was made, there were inflows and outflows.

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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by marcnath » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:00 pm

soloogah wrote:
Momi wrote:These are the stupid reasons of refusals I ever come across.
Now you have less than a year to complete 10 years.
Go for admin review and try to give as much information as possible and if nothing comes out then go for human rights or you can reapply to gain time.
thanks for your comments, does the ADMIN Review requires me to submit additional paperwork or just an explanation and my comments on what i think the caseworker did wrong?
You cannot submit additional evidence for your AR. But it does not look like you need to anyway.
You would only make your arguments in the AR as to why the CW's decision was wrong. You can provide documents to support those arguments.
Off hand, I think you have a strong case. Take each of the CWs comments and show why you think they have come to the wrong conclusion. You argument most probably is that the CW is wrong in using the limited information that you have submitted and that they should have requested you to provide additional documentation before they reached their conclusion. That argument will allow you to add documents to support your argument (these are the documents I would have submitted if I were asked).
I am not a lawyer and normally I would not suggest going to a lawyer, but this may be a case where it will be worth it.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

soloogah
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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by soloogah » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:39 pm

marcnath wrote:
soloogah wrote:
Momi wrote:These are the stupid reasons of refusals I ever come across.
Now you have less than a year to complete 10 years.
Go for admin review and try to give as much information as possible and if nothing comes out then go for human rights or you can reapply to gain time.
thanks for your comments, does the ADMIN Review requires me to submit additional paperwork or just an explanation and my comments on what i think the caseworker did wrong?
You cannot submit additional evidence for your AR. But it does not look like you need to anyway.
You would only make your arguments in the AR as to why the CW's decision was wrong. You can provide documents to support those arguments.
Off hand, I think you have a strong case. Take each of the CWs comments and show why you think they have come to the wrong conclusion. You argument most probably is that the CW is wrong in using the limited information that you have submitted and that they should have requested you to provide additional documentation before they reached their conclusion. That argument will allow you to add documents to support your argument (these are the documents I would have submitted if I were asked).
I am not a lawyer and normally I would not suggest going to a lawyer, but this may be a case where it will be worth it.
thanks alot mate. Any idea what to say about the different business name on the sign of my shop which suppose to be my business premises with my registered business name for the purpose of the application?

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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by hina_pirzada » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:58 pm

I advise you to apply visa on behalf of your family and private life in the UK. You have 12 months left to complete 10 years. you will get easily cover the require period. if you apply AR and they refuse so have only option to go in JR. After refusing AR and you apply for Private Life than you will not able to claim 10 years continues residency. Think about it and ask the solicitor.

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Re: REFUSED ON NON-POINTS SCORING GROUNDS

Post by CR001 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:33 am

hina_pirzada wrote:I advise you to apply visa on behalf of your family and private life in the UK. You have 12 months left to complete 10 years. you will get easily cover the require period. if you apply AR and they refuse so have only option to go in JR. After refusing AR and you apply for Private Life than you will not able to claim 10 years continues residency. Think about it and ask the solicitor.
Unlikely a FLR private life application will drag for 12 months. HO very aware of this trick to buy time.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

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