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T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

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dwchoi1212
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T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by dwchoi1212 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:21 pm

My application for extension was refused with the reason below.

I had to transfer money from my country to UK business account. But my country set a limit in transferring money to abroad. With this reason, part of the investment money was transferred to the UK business account from my wife's name. I submitted a signed letter from my wife specifying that the money was mine, she transferred the money to the UK business account on my behalf with such a reason. HO did not accept this saying the transfer should be only from myself from my personal bank account.

I am going to apply for AR.
- What do I send them for AR?
- How long would it take for AR? I have already missed several business meeting abroad while waiting for this.
- If AR is also refused, what should I do? I don't think I cannot make a fresh application because there would not be any change i documents I can prepare.

Your advice and help would be much appreciated.

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Zimba
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by Zimba » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:39 pm

The rules require you to transfer the money from your own account for DL. Alternative ways are NOT accepted.
I suggest to instead claim that you have invested via share capital, change the accounts, prepare the required documents and apply afresh
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

sulemanca
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by sulemanca » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:07 pm

Sorry to here that ..

Could you please update your timeline (application date and decision date) and the route (50k or 200k) ?

dwchoi1212
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by dwchoi1212 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:03 pm

a paragraph 46-SD they refer to is below.
iii)If the applicant has made the investment in the form of a director’s loan, it must be shown both in the relevant set of financial accounts provided, and through readily identifiable transactions in the applicant’s business bank statements, which must clearly show the transfer of this money from the applicant to his business.

It says the money must be 'from the applicant'. It did not say 'from the applicant's personal bank account'. The supporting letter from my wife says the money from mine(applicant), it is tranferred from her account only because my account has some limit for sending money abroad. I think this proves that the money is from the applicant. Accounts also mention that the total amount is director's loan.

Any similar cases?

rajbhanu300
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by rajbhanu300 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:57 pm

Sorry to hear about yr refusal. Did you submit your remittance documents? like Original bank letter showing access to the funds in your account, Authority letter from you to yr wife to transfer the funds, remittance receipts etc.

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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by noajthan » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:07 pm

dwchoi1212 wrote:a paragraph 46-SD they refer to is below.
iii)If the applicant has made the investment in the form of a director’s loan, it must be shown both in the relevant set of financial accounts provided, and through readily identifiable transactions in the applicant’s business bank statements, which must clearly show the transfer of this money from the applicant to his business.

...

Any similar cases?
Plenty of failures reported due to transfers for example, via a brother.
Search forum.

Was there a readily identifiable papertrail every step of the way from applicant (/bank account) via wife (/bank account - credit then debit) and onwards to business bank account?
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

dwchoi1212
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by dwchoi1212 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:13 pm

zimba88 wrote:The rules require you to transfer the money from your own account for DL. Alternative ways are NOT accepted.
I suggest to instead claim that you have invested via share capital, change the accounts, prepare the required documents and apply afresh
Could you explain more please?
What new documents are needed? Can we use some documents held in HO now?
Would it take another 8wks+ for the afresh?

rajbhanu300
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by rajbhanu300 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:38 pm

So did you submit any of the documents I mentioned above? Also how was your name shown in the bank statement for that transaction? I mean yr personal name or director or yr wife's name?

The Druid
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by The Druid » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:50 pm

dwchoi1212 wrote:My application for extension was refused with the reason below.

I had to transfer money from my country to UK business account. But my country set a limit in transferring money to abroad. With this reason, part of the investment money was transferred to the UK business account from my wife's name. I submitted a signed letter from my wife specifying that the money was mine, she transferred the money to the UK business account on my behalf with such a reason. HO did not accept this saying the transfer should be only from myself from my personal bank account.

I am going to apply for AR.
- What do I send them for AR?
- How long would it take for AR? I have already missed several business meeting abroad while waiting for this.
- If AR is also refused, what should I do? I don't think I cannot make a fresh application because there would not be any change i documents I can prepare.

Your advice and help would be much appreciated.
what is your time frame

dwchoi1212
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by dwchoi1212 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:45 pm

rajbhanu300 wrote:So did you submit any of the documents I mentioned above? Also how was your name shown in the bank statement for that transaction? I mean yr personal name or director or yr wife's name?
Bank statements of business account show both my name and my wife's name in separate transactions. A supporting letter from my wife was submitted with the statements, saying the money belonged to me. I did not interpret the guide that the money had to be from my personal bank account, but just from myself(applicant) and I thought the signed letter would prove that the money was from me.

Hiuk7777
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by Hiuk7777 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:57 pm

when u apply the initial visa, how can you provide you have 50k to access anytime? If you provide you and your wife's bank statement for your initial, I think you can chance to win.

live4pride
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by live4pride » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:20 pm

If in your initial leave you showed the same funds and also specified the access of funds via wife's account then without a doubt you should be fine. There is a 50/50 chance how AR would go but as Zimba88 suggested, Share Capital seems to be a feasible option under this circumstances. Consult with your accountant for that. In addition prepare all your paperwork for the money transfers to you or your wife and make an agreement based on that. Effectively its your money but see how you would fulfil HO requirements that fits best to your scenario. Their guidance about investment is very clear. Try your best and focus on your reasoning for the actions that have resulted this situation.
where there's a will there's a way

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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by Zimba » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:37 pm

Bank statements of business account show both my name and my wife's name in separate transactions. A supporting letter from my wife was submitted with the statements, saying the money belonged to me. I did not interpret the guide that the money had to be from my personal bank account, but just from myself(applicant) and I thought the signed letter would prove that the money was from me.
That is not how it works in the world of immigration rules. According to the rules, you are the applicant not your wife or anyone else. Money invested under your name must come from YOU as per rules. You should have transferred all money to your personal UK account and then transferred it under your name.
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

dwchoi1212
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by dwchoi1212 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:17 pm

live4pride wrote:If in your initial leave you showed the same funds and also specified the access of funds via wife's account then without a doubt you should be fine. There is a 50/50 chance how AR would go but as Zimba88 suggested, Share Capital seems to be a feasible option under this circumstances. Consult with your accountant for that. In addition prepare all your paperwork for the money transfers to you or your wife and make an agreement based on that. Effectively its your money but see how you would fulfil HO requirements that fits best to your scenario. Their guidance about investment is very clear. Try your best and focus on your reasoning for the actions that have resulted this situation.
Thank you for your help.
Re the Share Capital, I can see the below guide.
--
(4) If you have invested by way of share capital the business accounts must show the shareholders, the amount and value of the shares (on the date of purchase) in your name as it appears on your application. If the value of your share capital is not shown in the accounts, then a copy of the company’s register of members must be provided.
(5) The accounts must clearly show the name of the accountant, the date the accounts were produced, and how much you have invested in the business. The accounts must be prepared and signed off by the accountant in accordance with statutory requirements
--

Obviously, I have submitted the accounts regrading DL issued 2 years ago. For a revised account with Shared Capital if I go for this, obviously the real issued date will be some time Jan/Feb 2017. Or should it be the past during my initial leave? What do you mean by 'all your paperwork for the money transfers to you or your wife and make an agreement based on that'? For this option, is the unaudited account the only thing to submit for the evidence of investment?

For a fresh application, do I do it from the scratch with the same waiting time, 8wks+, the same app fees and BRP in the offce office?

Many thanks,

ukbiz
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by ukbiz » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:37 pm

zimba88 wrote: I suggest to instead claim that you have invested via share capital, change the accounts, prepare the required documents and apply afresh

By following Accounting standard it is possible to change Director's Equity position from Director Loan to Share Capital, however, that is not how it works in the world of immigration rules!

Immigration Rules required the Investment to be made during the initial period and changing the Equity position from DL to SC won't be acceptable now as the applicant has to submit a statement of confirmation to issue the additional required number of shares in current date as he can't issue the shares in past date!

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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by businessmen aces » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:50 pm

Sorry to hear about your rejection. It seems to be a very harsh decision. Was it 200K visa ? Is your wife in UK on a dependent visa ? When were the funds transferred just before extension or some time back ? Has the money been spend to run the business. Did you get points for all other attributes

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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by Zimba » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:59 pm

ukbiz wrote: By following Accounting standard it is possible to change Director's Equity position from Director Loan to Share Capital, however, that is not how it works in the world of immigration rules!

Immigration Rules required the Investment to be made during the initial period and changing the Equity position from DL to SC won't be acceptable now as the applicant has to submit a statement of confirmation to issue the additional required number of shares in current date as he can't issue the shares in past date!
True, however the investment was technically done during initial. He can just get the shares issued now for the investment that was made before.
I prefer him to try than to give up 8)
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

dwchoi1212
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by dwchoi1212 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:27 pm

businessmen aces wrote:Sorry to hear about your rejection. It seems to be a very harsh decision. Was it 200K visa ? Is your wife in UK on a dependent visa ? When were the funds transferred just before extension or some time back ? Has the money been spend to run the business. Did you get points for all other attributes
200k
She is in UK as a dependent.
Money was transferred nearly 3 years ago and has been spent on the business.
Points are 55/75, 10/10, 10/10.
I accept that it was not readily identifiable in the statement. But the account acknowledges my investment and a supporting letter from my wife confirms that the transfer is from my money. Very harsh.

dwchoi1212
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by dwchoi1212 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:32 pm

zimba88 wrote:
ukbiz wrote: By following Accounting standard it is possible to change Director's Equity position from Director Loan to Share Capital, however, that is not how it works in the world of immigration rules!

Immigration Rules required the Investment to be made during the initial period and changing the Equity position from DL to SC won't be acceptable now as the applicant has to submit a statement of confirmation to issue the additional required number of shares in current date as he can't issue the shares in past date!
True, however the investment was technically done during initial. He can just get the shares issued now for the investment that was made before.
I prefer him to try than to give up 8)

Do you think I need a revised account dated in current date or in past date during the initial period?

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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by live4pride » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:58 pm

dwchoi1212 wrote:
zimba88 wrote:
ukbiz wrote: By following Accounting standard it is possible to change Director's Equity position from Director Loan to Share Capital, however, that is not how it works in the world of immigration rules!

Immigration Rules required the Investment to be made during the initial period and changing the Equity position from DL to SC won't be acceptable now as the applicant has to submit a statement of confirmation to issue the additional required number of shares in current date as he can't issue the shares in past date!
True, however the investment was technically done during initial. He can just get the shares issued now for the investment that was made before.
I prefer him to try than to give up 8)

Do you think I need a revised account dated in current date or in past date during the initial period?
When did you submit your last accounts? And when did your 3 year initial stay expired??
where there's a will there's a way

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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by businessmen aces » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:06 am

dwchoi1212 wrote:
businessmen aces wrote:Sorry to hear about your rejection. It seems to be a very harsh decision. Was it 200K visa ? Is your wife in UK on a dependent visa ? When were the funds transferred just before extension or some time back ? Has the money been spend to run the business. Did you get points for all other attributes
200k
She is in UK as a dependent.
Money was transferred nearly 3 years ago and has been spent on the business.
Points are 55/75, 10/10, 10/10.
I accept that it was not readily identifiable in the statement. But the account acknowledges my investment and a supporting letter from my wife confirms that the transfer is from my money. Very harsh.
I think you have a very good chance in AR. It very unfair of home office to just find excuses to reject visas on flimsy grounds. They should only focus if money has been invested and used to carry out business and applicant has given employment to minimum 2 people as promised and paid all taxes. No 3rd party will give money for 3 years and more importantly money is from wife who is with the applicant on dependent visa. Its almost impossible to get all full stop and coma correct when applying for this entreprenuer complicated visa. If a businessmen is carrying on genuine business and has invested 200 to 300 k and invested 3-4 years of his life in building that business its very unfair i have already started to feel that it was a mistake to have invested here other options like would have been better. It takes 7-8 months for extension or even more and than ILR takes another 8-9 months and you can't travel during that period and so much uncertainty that they may reject you for any small thing. I have started to question if is it worth it ? they just made a fool of us.

Please apply for AR asap and i wish you all the best you have a very good chance. Don't give up you will get it and you deserve it

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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by Jazz2007 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:08 am

zimba88 wrote:
ukbiz wrote: By following Accounting standard it is possible to change Director's Equity position from Director Loan to Share Capital, however, that is not how it works in the world of immigration rules!

Immigration Rules required the Investment to be made during the initial period and changing the Equity position from DL to SC won't be acceptable now as the applicant has to submit a statement of confirmation to issue the additional required number of shares in current date as he can't issue the shares in past date!
True, however the investment was technically done during initial. He can just get the shares issued now for the investment that was made before.
I prefer him to try than to give up 8)

Agreed to ukbiz,

Instead OP can go to fulfill the requirement DL(50k) by investing required funds during AR process.If its for trying why not this?

HO already have the reason for refusal.DL to SC might be a blunder.

zamaha
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by zamaha » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:02 am

What about the following paragraph. I know it is related to direct fresh invesment but does it worth a shot inAR?

138. When evidencing the investment:
(1) The audited or unaudited accounts must show the investment in money made directly by the you, in your own name or on your behalf (and showing your name).[/b]

dwchoi1212
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by dwchoi1212 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:34 am

live4pride wrote: When did you submit your last accounts? And when did your 3 year initial stay expired??
Last account was submitted mid 2016. Initial stay expired early Dec 2016.

rajbhanu300
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Re: T1E extension refused . Need advise for AR

Post by rajbhanu300 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:20 am

Did you submit the original letter from the bank abroad showing funds in your account and are readily available which you showed during your initial application?

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