Immigrationboards.com

As anyone taken the time to notice that the alleged List of acceptable professional persons i.e referee does not come from the Home Office(HO)?

https://www.gov.im/media/624353/listofreferees.pdf

There is no where on official home office documents or website, what acceptable referees are. It is simply just defined as professional person. I also browsed through https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ which regurgitate information present via gov.uk. Under referees-

Check HO document- https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 2.0ext.pdf

Page 10, under reference does not make any mention of this list from gov.im above, it simply says;

The referee must:
• have known the (adult) applicant for at least 3 years
• a British passport holder and either a professional person or aged over 25 (at
least one referee must be a professional person)

Note professional person can be anybody working in professional capacity in my view like Doctor, Engineer, Teacher/Lecturer, Banker, Physicist (e.g. civil, elec/elect, IT, Software, comp sci. etc. not necessarily Technicians e.g boiler engineer lol). I stand to be corrected

The questions are, how does this list came about and what is correct? This list is given further credibility by websites and forums like this one- weblink removed by moderator that regurgitate it without considering the official HO information.

Went through the above website- gov.im; this turned out to be a document from Isle of Man government, how is that now taken as HO information?

I think this should be discussed and pinned so people can easily see it and not have to waste their time on asking questions that sometimes go unanswered. At least in my case. Apologies for feeling entitled to an answer

Check HO document- https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 2.0ext.pdf

Page 10, under reference does not make any mention of this list from gov.im above, it simply says;
The referee must:
• have known the (adult) applicant for at least 3 years
• a British passport holder and either a professional person or aged over 25 (at
least one referee must be a professional person)

If you read page 24 of the same linked document, the professions are listed clearly.

Additionally,there is already a pinned topic about this.

british-citizenship/accepted-profession ... 22565.html

Thats like a bit of flour lol. Thanks! Now I'm at peace.

jlugs wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:54 pm

Thats like a bit of flour lol.

Not sure what you meant by that.

The list used by the Isle of Man government would be almost exactly identical to the one used by the UK Home Office. The UK Home Office and the governments of the various Crown Dependencies (the Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey) all implement the same law (the British Nationality Act 1981, which applies to the Crown Dependencies as well) and the naturalisation granted by all of them would result in the same status (most commonly, British citizenship). They therefore co-ordinate their implementation of the law to the same standards. Therefore regardless of whether the list is found on the Gov.IM or the Gov.UK website, their guidance remains the same.

The reason that the list is occasionally found separately is because the Nationality Instructions previously published on the Gov.UK website used to be much more detailed and have far more documents listed on them. See for example these Nationality Instructions from May 2017, and in particular the ones that applied to naturalisation. In that latter guidance, you will find the same list (Annex A to Chapter 6) as the one published by the Manx government.

The guidance for naturlisation has now been considerably simplified and shortened and as CR001 has pointed out, the list for acceptable persons to be referees is now integrated into the main document.

jlugs wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:04 am

Note professional person can be anybody working in professional capacity in my view like Doctor, Engineer, Teacher/Lecturer, Banker, Physicist (e.g. civil, elec/elect, IT, Software, comp sci. etc. not necessarily Technicians e.g boiler engineer lol).

In the UK at least, the term "professions" and its related "professionals" have had a comparatively narrow meaning for a long time (see for instance, this link from the University of Oxford's History department). It has generally been used to demote those jobs where the person have to meet specific qualifications laid down by a trades guild or organisation or by a branch of the government and which continues to regulate them after they have qualified. Thus, lawyers and doctors, etc.

A close personal friend, who was also one of my referees for naturalisaton, pointed out to me what they thought all the acceptable people listed in the document had in common (which amounted to almost exactly the same as the above); the listed occupations are all regulated either directly or indirectly by the government and if the referee were found to have lied/been economical with the truth in the reference process, action could be taken against them via their occupation. So, for instance, a nurse or dentist or optician or solicitor could be stuck off the register by the organisation running those occupations (thus rendering them unfit to practise those occupations). Likewise members of professional bodies (like chartered accountants) can be stuck off the rolls of those bodies, thus impacting their ability to work, etc.

Thus a professional referee would suffer a direct and long-term financial impact on their livelihood if it were later found that their reference was not valid.

Thank for a very detailed response secret.simon

Not sure what you meant by that.

I meant, it's like a flour in my face. A light joke.

So, for instance, a nurse or dentist or optician or solicitor could be stuck off the register by the organisation running those occupations (thus rendering them unfit to practise those occupations). Likewise members of professional bodies (like chartered accountants) can be stuck off the rolls of those bodies, thus impacting their ability to work, etc.

I get the point you made here, but you could say the same for a professional photographer or a journalist amongst some others, could you?

jlugs wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:06 pm

So, for instance, a nurse or dentist or optician or solicitor could be stuck off the register by the organisation running those occupations (thus rendering them unfit to practise those occupations). Likewise members of professional bodies (like chartered accountants) can be stuck off the rolls of those bodies, thus impacting their ability to work, etc.

I get the point you made here, but you could say the same for a professional photographer or a journalist amongst some others, could you?

No, because to the best of my knowledge, a professional photographer or journalist are not regulated by a trade body or by the government. The element of regulation by a statutory or governmental organisation is what is key to the definition of "profession".

A professional photographer or journalist is likely just a term for a self-employed photographer/journalist or one who's main job is being a photographer/journalist (as opposed to it being an amateur hobby or volunteer role). That does not make them a "professional" in the sense of being regulated as mentioned above.

Help with supporting documents

Hi guys, I need clarification with supporting document for citizenship application. I appreciate your time. Thanks!

Settled Status- I have a settled status, however, this is only confirmed by letter, do I require a biometric card for purpose of application?

5 years lawful residence period- What are the examples of this? Is passport stamps or record of travel good enough?

Passport- What is evidence of freedom from immigration time restrictions? Is that not the same as above and or i.e PR card? Also, the request for passport seem to be repeated or required multiple times as follows;
- The passport issued by "Country of current nationality"
- Mr or Mrs X’s proof of Nationality
You must include your:
passport or EEA national identity card
UK permanent residence card
evidence of freedom from immigration time restrictions

Proof of residence- Current Biometric Residence Permit for Mr or Mrs X
and again Proof of living in the UK for Mr or Mrs X for 5 years
If you are a Non-EEA National, you need to include your passport to prove you have lived in the UK for the relevant 3- or 5-year period.

I am a bit confuse with the repetitive request for the same documents that already prove or satisfy information required or I'm I missing anything here?

jlugs wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:38 pm

Help with supporting documents

Hi guys, I need clarification with supporting document for citizenship application. I appreciate your time. Thanks!

Settled Status- I have a settled status, however, this is only confirmed by letter, do I require a biometric card for purpose of application? No bio card required - you can load your letter, and provide the reference number, should be on the letter?

5 years lawful residence period- What are the examples of this? Is passport stamps or record of travel good enough? Simplest would be P60s for each year, or a letter from employer(s) stating that you work for them from/to, or Council Tax bills.

Passport- What is evidence of freedom from immigration time restrictions? Is that not the same as above and or i.e PR card? It could be a PR or BRP card, or in your case, the Settled Status reference (as it's online). Also, the request for passport seem to be repeated or required multiple times as follows; yes it's confusing ....
- The passport issued by "Country of current nationality" OK
- Mr or Mrs X’s proof of Nationality = Passport
You must include your:
passport or EEA national identity card Passport
UK permanent residence card
evidence of freedom from immigration time restrictions Settled Status

Proof of residence- Current Biometric Residence Permit for Mr or Mrs X Not needed
and again Proof of living in the UK for Mr or Mrs X for 5 years Your P60s or other documents per above
If you are a Non-EEA National, you need to include your passport to prove you have lived in the UK for the relevant 3- or 5-year period. Relates to applicants on UK ILR path (not settled status).

I am a bit confuse with the repetitive request for the same documents that already prove or satisfy information required or I'm I missing anything here?

Hope this clarifies.

@alterhase58, thanks! I appreciate your feedback, in a clear and concise way.

Questions about UKVCAS appointment

There's no appointment in my town however I managed to find an appointment in another area. When I clicked on it, it suggested that I must pay £112. I thought the appointment was paid for as part of the £1349.2 application fee, is that correct?

Also, I uploaded my supporting documents a while ago on UKVCAS, what else do I need to do with UKVCAS other than providing biometric?

£1349.2 was though to part with and additional £112 will be though to deal with especially because I couldn't plan for it.

jlugs wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:48 pm

Questions about UKVCAS appointment

There's no appointment in my town however I managed to find an appointment in another area. When I clicked on it, it suggested that I must pay £112. I thought the appointment was paid for as part of the £1349.2 application fee, is that correct?

Also, I uploaded my supporting documents a while ago on UKVCAS, what else do I need to do with UKVCAS other than providing biometric?

£1349.2 was though to part with and additional £112 will be though to deal with especially because I couldn't plan for it.

UKVCAS can charge their own fees which come at various level, from free to £100++ - free appointments seem to go quickly. It is often recommended to check for appointments shortly after midnight to early in the morning. On the principle, yes the UKVI charge for biometrics is £19.20, but UKVCAS (a private contractor to UKVI) is allowed to charge as well ... it certainly makes it tough on applicants, especially for those who apply together with their partners and children.

I believe UKVCAS will just need to see your passport as proof of identity - they may send you an email confirming the requirements.