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Dear All,

My daughter was born outside the UK (I am British naturalized). My daughter now has the UK passport but she is British by descent (although her passport does not say so) and she can not pass the citizenship as far as I know.

I am interested in knowing what are the necessary conditions that my daughter has to fulfil to be able to pass the citizenship?

Many Thanks

Saad

A child born within the UK to a British citizen by descent parent would automatically be a British citizen otherwise than by descent. That is probably the best option.

A child born outside the UK to a British citizen by descent parent can be registered as a British citizen before their 18th brthday under Section 3(2) of the BNA 1981 provided that (a) the British citizen by descent parent has lived in the UK for at least three continuous years before the birth of the child and (b) at least one of the parents of the British citizen by descent parent was a British citizen otherwise than by descent.

The registration under Section 3(2) mentioned above will make the child themselves a British citizen by descent and they will not be able to pass their British citizenship to their own children in the same manner because condition (b) would fail.

Alternatively a child born outside the UK to a British citizen by descent parent can be registered as a British citizen before their 18th birthday under Section 3(5) of the BNA 1981 if the child and both parents move to the UK on a relevant visa and live in the UK for at least three continuous years before their 18th birthday. Registration under Section 3(5) will make the child a British citizen otherwise than by descent.

What if the British by descent parent got their citizenship through UKF after the child was born and the child is still a minor - what options are available to enable the minor kids get citizenship. Thank you.

Trinity21 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:22 am

What if the British by descent parent got their citizenship through UKF after the child was born and the child is still a minor - what options are available to enable the minor kids get citizenship. Thank you.

If the child meets the requirements of Section 3(2) or Section 3(5) above, but for the fact that the parent was not a British citizen by descent at the time of the birth of the child, probably a registration under Section 3(1).

Dear Secret Simon

Thank you for your reply. Very clear!

Not sure whether the NHS hospitals would welcome British expats? If not, does it mean that we need to go private?

bravopapa wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:20 am

Not sure whether the NHS hospitals would welcome British expats? If not, does it mean that we need to go private?

When visiting the UK?
british-citizenship/interview-for-briti ... l#p2013428

From Morocco?
british-citizenship/bc-for-child-born-a ... l#p1928655

British are billed too in hospitals if they don't live in the UK, at 150% of NHS costs. They will likely ask for payment up front.

bravopapa wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:20 am

Not sure whether the NHS hospitals would welcome British expats?

British citizens need to prove "ordinary residence" to use the NHS free of charge.

This Leicester Hospitals webpage gives you an idea of what proof may be required.

This Age UK leaflet gives an overview of the various requirements for British citizens returning to reside in the UK from abroad.

Ordinary residence
There is no legal definition of ‘ordinary residence’. It refers to the place you normally live for the time being, as long as there is a degree of continuity about your stay.

The main test is set down in a case called Shah where the meaning of the words ‘ordinarily resident’ was considered. The ruling found that:
An individual who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, whether of long or short duration, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled.

Official guidance advises that 'ordinary residence' should be given its everyday and natural meaning based on the facts of each case and subject to interpretation by the courts.

Also keep in mind that your daughter, even though a British citizen, must be resident in the UK for at least three years before the start of the first year of any higher/further education course to qualify for student loans and Home Student rates.

If you are a UK national living abroad and are returning to live in the UK, you will be able to use the NHS for your healthcare.
...

Prove you are eligible for free healthcare

The first time you have treatment anywhere in the NHS you will need to bring proof that you are eligible for free healthcare. You should bring at least two of the following documents:

Residence in the UK

Proof of your purchase of property or a tenancy agreement
Recent utility or council tax bill payment
UK bank account showing recent UK activity

Employment status

Payslip or letter from employer
Bank statement
Unique tax reference number
Documentation from your local job centre to show that you are receiving job-seekers allowance

You can also use documents that prove you no longer live abroad. For example, paperwork to show that you have:

sold or rented your house in your previous country of residence
terminated employment or studies in your previous country of residence
shipped goods or transferred assets to the UK
ended insurance policies and utility contracts

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-n ... -in-the-uk

How to access NHS services in England if you are visiting from abroad

This information is for people who are visiting England from abroad. It tells you how to access different types of healthcare and whether you might need to pay.
...
Hospital services

Hospital treatment is free to people who are "ordinarily resident" in the UK.

To be considered ordinarily resident and entitled to free hospital treatment, you must be living in the UK on a lawful and properly settled basis for the time being. You may be asked to prove this.

You cannot be considered ordinarily resident in the UK unless you have indefinite leave to remain or status under the EU Settlement Scheme.
https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/visitin ... om-abroad/

I meant when visiting the UK....

It is quite strict in terms of proving residency....

God knows what the future will be like but clearly being a British Citizen and living abroad does not present any advantages as far as i can see.

In USA, people just go and give birth there without any proof of residence. In France, there is no concept of otherwise than by descent or descent, you just pass the citizenship indefinitely to future generation.

If a British by descent gives birth in a EU country does it help in passing the British citizenship or no?

Thanks so much

bravopapa wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:24 pm

If a British by descent gives birth in a EU country does it help in passing the British citizenship or no?

No. It is within or outside the UK that matters. That was the same even when the UK was within the EU.

bravopapa wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:24 pm

In USA, people just go and give birth there without any proof of residence. In France, there is no concept of otherwise than by descent or descent, you just pass the citizenship indefinitely to future generation.

Different countries have different ideas of which people belong to that nation (another way of thinking about citizenship). The etymological root of words like nation and naturalisation is the Latin word "natus", which relates to birth, being born in a tribe/culture, etc.

Dutch citizenship is very easy to lose, as I found out when researching on a thread elsewhere in these forums. If you live outside the Netherlands or the EU without a Dutch passport for an extended period of time, you could lose your Dutch citizenship.

On the other hand, other citizenships are practically impossible to lose, even when you do want to lose them. Americans with Polish surnames used to have difficulties in visiting Poland because Poland used to consider them Polish citizens and used to insist on them completing military service before they returned back to the US. Likewise, I believe (not absolutely certain) that China considers all people of Chinese descent its citizens (of varying degrees).

So, different countries have different approaches to citizenship.

Thank you Secret Simon. I appreciate all responses.

Kind Regards

A few additional thoughts, as I was reflecting on this on my way home.

bravopapa wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:24 pm

In France, there is no concept of otherwise than by descent or descent, you just pass the citizenship indefinitely to future generation.

True of many countries. I believe that Italy and Poland allow automatic citizenship by indefinite generations of descent. Which is why so many Americans attempt to trace their ancestry to an Italian or Polish ancestor. Effectively a multi-generation EU passport.

By contrast, the UK prefers its citizens to have strong residential links to the home countries (England, Wales, Scotland and NI). Even Ireland allows automatic inheritance of citizenship only to one generation abroad, with any further generations requiring registration with the FBR to acquire Irish citizenship.

On a different note, the 1980s saw many Commonwealth countries (the UK, Canada, Australia, India and possibly New Zealand) tighten their citizenship laws.

Till the late 1980s, anybody born in India was an Indian citizen automatically (pure jus soli). In 1986, the law was amended to require that at least one parent must be Indian for a child born in India to be an Indian citizen. In the early 2000s, that was further tightened to require that not only must one parent be an Indian citizen, but that the other parent must not be illegally resident in India. So it is not just the western countries tightening their citizenship laws.

To the best of my knowledge, Pakistan and Cambodia are the only two countries in the Old World to still practice pure jus soli (anybody born there is a citizen, regardless of parentage).

bravopapa wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:24 pm

God knows what the future will be like but clearly being a British Citizen and living abroad does not present any advantages as far as i can see.

Not when it comes to things like access to resources in the UK.

Then again, keep in mind that the UK still affords Commonwealth citizens who are resident in the UK on any non-visit visa the right to vote. And a Commonwealth citizen with ILR has almost all the rights of a British citizen within the UK (their children born in the UK will be British citizens, they can vote in all elections and even be elected to the Commons or appointed to the Lords, etc).

Differences between a Commonwealth citizen with ILR and a British citizen may arise outside the UK, but within the UK, they have almost all the same rights, with possibly fewer rights only when it comes to avoiding deportation in case of major crimes.

The UK's immigration and citizenship system is strongly oriented towards long-term residency within the UK, rather than having generations of citizens abroad who have no direct residential/live-in connection with the UK.

And it is not just the UK that is concerned about migrants doing the bare minimum to acquire British citizenship and then leaving the UK to return to their country of origin. It was a political question in Canada in the 2000s as well.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:19 am

Trinity21 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:22 am

What if the British by descent parent got their citizenship through UKF after the child was born and the child is still a minor - what options are available to enable the minor kids get citizenship. Thank you.

If the child meets the requirements of Section 3(2) or Section 3(5) above, but for the fact that the parent was not a British citizen by descent at the time of the birth of the child, probably a registration under Section 3(1).

Thanks Secret.Simon for your response. I looked up the section 3(1) and it seems to be no go route. For clarity this is my story - mother got citizenship through ukf, currently living abroad (never lived in uk). Child was born prior to even mother obtaining British citizenship. Hence mother is citizen of the UK by descent due to being born abroad.
I intend to move to the UK, but I need to know the best route for my kids, so we can relocate together. Thank you.

What are the other parent’s circumstances? If child is ineligible to register, then child may apply for a visa, in line with other parent’s, unless you have sole responsibility, etc.

Thank you Secret Simon.

What does UKF means? is this a special status?

bravopapa wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:21 am

Thank you Secret Simon.

What does UKF means? is this a special status?

It doesnt apply to you.

Another user tagged their question into your topic and their question and route is irrelevant to your query.