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Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:32 am
by Ibrahim122
I apologize in advance if a similar case has ever been discussed somewhere here but I couldnt really find it.
I am non-eu, I used to live in UK for 2 years (2017 % 2018)as a full time post-graduate student. I am now married to an EEA national; she lives, works and studies in UK. She also has obtained pre-settled already. We got married in her home country (Lithuania) and we have a sufficient relationship history of 2 years. I currently hold a 2 years visitor visa that allows me to stay for up to 180 days. Can I apply for any permit/visa/RC from inside UK having said that I am on a visitor visa?
It is confusing when everywhere says I have to apply for EUSS family permit from my home country; knowing that such a permit allows me to stay in UK for 6 months, which is exactly as my visitor visa.
Any advice on what should I apply for please?
Thanks in advance
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:56 pm
by Richard W
Ibrahim122 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:32 am
I am non-eu, I used to live in UK for 2 years (2017 % 2018)as a full time post-graduate student. I am now married to an EEA national; she lives, works and studies in UK.
You can apply under the EU settlement scheme. You may face future accusations of lying to an immigration officer when you entered the UK. If she works regularly and earns enough to pay national insurance, and is not paid huge amounts for very little work, you should on arrival in the UK have asked for entry under an EEA regulations stamp as you were coming to join your wife who is a 'qualified person' under the EEA regulations.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:56 pm
by iwolga
You can’t move from visits visa to any kind of immigration visa from within the UK.
Standard option is to apply from your home country/country where you reside for an immigration type of visa. EU Family permit or EEA family permit (more or less the same). It is only valid for 6 months BUT unlike visit visas gives you correct immigration status: allows you to make further immigration applications from within UK, open bank account, get access to NHS, counts towards your settled status.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:35 pm
by lisa1933
iwolga wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:56 pm
You can’t move from visits visa to any kind of immigration visa from within the UK.
Standard option is to apply from your home country/country where you reside for an immigration type of visa. EU Family permit or EEA family permit (more or less the same). It is only valid for 6 months BUT unlike visit visas gives you correct immigration status: allows you to make further immigration applications from within UK, open bank account, get access to NHS, counts towards your settled status.
While this is not the most common route, I know a number of people who got a residence card from a visitor visa from within the UK.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:37 pm
by iwolga
lisa1933 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:35 pm
iwolga wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:56 pm
You can’t move from visits visa to any kind of immigration visa from within the UK.
Standard option is to apply from your home country/country where you reside for an immigration type of visa. EU Family permit or EEA family permit (more or less the same). It is only valid for 6 months BUT unlike visit visas gives you correct immigration status: allows you to make further immigration applications from within UK, open bank account, get access to NHS, counts towards your settled status.
While this is not the most common route, I know a number of people who got a residence card from a visitor visa from within the UK.
I wonder how?
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:15 pm
by lisa1933
iwolga wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:37 pm
lisa1933 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:35 pm
iwolga wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:56 pm
You can’t move from visits visa to any kind of immigration visa from within the UK.
Standard option is to apply from your home country/country where you reside for an immigration type of visa. EU Family permit or EEA family permit (more or less the same). It is only valid for 6 months BUT unlike visit visas gives you correct immigration status: allows you to make further immigration applications from within UK, open bank account, get access to NHS, counts towards your settled status.
While this is not the most common route, I know a number of people who got a residence card from a visitor visa from within the UK.
I wonder how?
Most common example I have in my circle is switching from visitor to RC as a fam member. Worked for a couple of people.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:56 am
by Ibrahim122
lisa1933 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:15 pm
iwolga wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:37 pm
lisa1933 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:35 pm
iwolga wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:56 pm
You can’t move from visits visa to any kind of immigration visa from within the UK.
Standard option is to apply from your home country/country where you reside for an immigration type of visa. EU Family permit or EEA family permit (more or less the same). It is only valid for 6 months BUT unlike visit visas gives you correct immigration status: allows you to make further immigration applications from within UK, open bank account, get access to NHS, counts towards your settled status.
While this is not the most common route, I know a number of people who got a residence card from a visitor visa from within the UK.
I wonder how?
Most common example I have in my circle is switching from visitor to RC as a fam member. Worked for a couple of people.
Hello Lisa1933,
Do you know these people personally? Is there any solid statement on the home office website that could support this route?
I am also concerned that if they refuse my application, will they cancel my current Visa too?
Appreciate your help,
Best!
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:30 am
by lisa1933
Ibrahim122 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:56 am
lisa1933 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:15 pm
iwolga wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:37 pm
lisa1933 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:35 pm
While this is not the most common route, I know a number of people who got a residence card from a visitor visa from within the UK.
I wonder how?
Most common example I have in my circle is switching from visitor to RC as a fam member. Worked for a couple of people.
Hello Lisa1933,
Do you know these people personally? Is there any solid statement on the home office website that could support this route?
I am also concerned that if they refuse my application, will they cancel my current Visa too?
Appreciate your help,
Best!
Yes, I do know them. But they all went to a migration lawyer before doing so, which I would do in an unclear case as well.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:25 am
by Zerubbabel
Is there any solid statement on the home office website that could support this route?
The Home Office is never going to publish a statement indicating that holders of visitor visas can switch to anything withing the UK.
For your question, there is theory and practice.
In theory, when someone applies under an EEA route within the UK, his original status it not taken into consideration. That's why even undocumented people manage to apply for EEA cards within the UK once married to an EEA national.
Now, while the Home Office may show some leniency towards someone who became an undocumented migrant following complex and unforeseen life events, they are less sympathetic to people who enter with a tourist visa, lie during their application, lie to the ECO at the airport, then once inside fill an application. Therefore, such application would come after a string of misrepresentations that undermines its credibility.
Also, not your fault, but there have been a long string of abuse involving the triangle Egypt - Eastern EEA countries and the UK. I mean EEA ladies met on touristic resorts, marry (often for money) Egyptians already married in Egypt, for the sole purpose of allowing them to come to the UK using EEA routes.
I am not implying your relationship is of this nature. But it is within a known pattern and any Caseworker would look at it very very carefully. It is not to the Caseworker to demonstrate that the relationship is not genuine. The burden of proof lies on your shoulders: it's up to you to prove that the relationship is genuine.
This means, if you start your history with UK by lying to an ECO at Heathrow, you are going to help the Home Office in building a strong refusal case against you. They will doubt your credibility and the credibility of your partner.
Never ever under any circumstances lie to immigration authorities in the UK. Once you do, you can't take it back and they have more than enough resources to make you regret it.
Follow the normal process and apply within Egypt and expect the relationship to be questioned.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:36 pm
by Richard W
iwolga wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:56 pm
You can’t move from visits visa to any kind of immigration visa from within the UK.
The restrictions on switching visa are given in the section of the Immigration Rules pertaining to the visa being switched to. There are no such restrictions in the Appendix EU, so we have found an exception.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:02 pm
by Richard W
Zerubbabel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:25 am
Also, not your fault, but there have been a long string of abuse involving the triangle Egypt - Eastern EEA countries and the UK. I mean EEA ladies met on touristic resorts, marry (often for money) Egyptians already married in Egypt, for the sole purpose of allowing them to come to the UK using EEA routes.
I am not implying your relationship is of this nature. But it is within a known pattern and any Caseworker would look at it very very carefully. It is not to the Caseworker to demonstrate that the relationship is not genuine. The burden of proof lies on your shoulders: it's up to you to prove that the relationship is genuine.
I'd wager the OP met his wife while he was studying in the UK, so this case already diverges from the pattern.
Under the British interpretation of EU law, there has to be good reason for the caseworker to suspect a marriage of convenience. Only then does the burden of proof fall on the OP. If his wife is a 'qualified person', then it may be better to first apply for a residence card under the EEA Regulations - this ensures that interpretation must be under EU law. (I think though that the interpretation of Appendix EU must be consistent with EU law for people protected by the Withdrawal Agreement, which includes the OP if his wife is a qualified person and the marriage is not one of convenience.)
I don't think the OP's being Egyptian and apparently not trusting ECOs are valid reasons to suspect a marriage of convenience.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:57 pm
by iwolga
Richard W wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:36 pm
iwolga wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:56 pm
You can’t move from visits visa to any kind of immigration visa from within the UK.
The restrictions on switching visa are given in the section of the Immigration Rules pertaining to the visa being switched to. There are no such restrictions in the Appendix EU, so we have found an exception.
In theory, yes. In practice I don’t understand the very idea: there’s a very straightforward route from home country and there’s a potentially stressful and halfway good route in the UK. So why putting himself into this? Why not making things just normal?
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:02 pm
by Ibrahim122
Zerubbabel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:25 am
This means, if you start your history with UK by lying to an ECO at Heathrow, you are going to help the Home Office in building a strong refusal case against you. They will doubt your credibility and the credibility of your partner.
Never ever under any circumstances lie to immigration authorities in the UK. Once you do, you can't take it back and they have more than enough resources to make you regret it.
Follow the normal process and apply within Egypt and expect the relationship to be questioned.
Thank you so much for your reply and I totally understand what you mean! am just assuming my travel history to UK wouldnt put me in the doubt of lying to the ECO. Having studied for 2 years in UK, then using the 2 years visa for almost 6 other entries along with 5 two ways trips within Europe using a valid Schengen Visa.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:09 pm
by Ibrahim122
iwolga wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:57 pm
Richard W wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:36 pm
iwolga wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:56 pm
You can’t move from visits visa to any kind of immigration visa from within the UK.
In theory, yes. In practice I don’t understand the very idea: there’s a very straightforward route from home country and there’s a potentially stressful and halfway good route in the UK. So why putting himself into this? Why not making things just normal?
To be honest, I feel like if my EUSS family permit application gets refused when I apply from Egypt, the home office will also cancel my current visitor Visa. I know this hasnt got to do anything with my initial concern but I feel like applying from UK is more approachable. I am also thinking of asking tobtalk to an immigration advisor when I arrive at Manchester Airport and mention my situation and see my options. So on one hand I wouldnt lie to the ECO and on other hand I would get proper suggestion from the authorized person (ECO). just a thought
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:21 pm
by Richard W
iwolga wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:57 pm
In theory, yes. In practice I don’t understand the very idea: there’s a very straightforward route from home country and there’s a potentially stressful and halfway good route in the UK. So why putting himself into this? Why not making things just normal?
I've just discovered to my surprise that the EEA Regulations stamp route (a.k.a. code 1A) route has now gone - bang goes the interactive approach.
That leaves waiting for the decision on the application with his wife and waiting on his own. I think waiting on one's own is more stressful, especially as it is likely to lead to the calculation of the visit visa.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:42 pm
by iwolga
Richard W wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:21 pm
iwolga wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:57 pm
In theory, yes. In practice I don’t understand the very idea: there’s a very straightforward route from home country and there’s a potentially stressful and halfway good route in the UK. So why putting himself into this? Why not making things just normal?
I've just discovered to my surprise that the EEA Regulations stamp route (a.k.a. code 1A) route has now gone - bang goes the interactive approach.
That leaves waiting for the decision on the application with his wife and waiting on his own. I think waiting on one's own is more stressful, especially as it is likely to lead to the calculation of the visit visa.
Like most things in life, decisions come with consequences. One need to be careful with HO as they can turn things against you in a blink of an eye.
Say the OP gets to UK on visit visas, applies and gets EUSS or EEA status. Then settles and applies for naturalization. And here comes good character test. So will this small story in the beginning of the OP life in the UK swing “the balance of probabilities” into negative? Is this something worth risking in a long run?
Everyone decided for him/herself. I thought that I can spend several weeks back to my home country while waiting. Call me a chicken
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:45 am
by Richard W
iwolga wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:57 pm
In theory, yes. In practice I don’t understand the very idea: there’s a very straightforward route from home country and there’s a potentially stressful and halfway good route in the UK. So why putting himself into this? Why not making things just normal?
There's a similar situation in the opening post of
EU settlement scheme Surinder Singh in Germany or UK. There, the EU settlement call centre has actually recommended moving from Germany to the UK using a tourist visa, and then applying for a residence card. I appreciate that the advice from call centres should not be trusted.
Re: Non-EU spouse with a 2 years visitor visa, what is the easiest way to stay with my wife?
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:07 pm
by Richard W
Richard W wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:21 pm
I've just discovered to my surprise that the EEA Regulations stamp route (a.k.a. code 1A) route has now gone - bang goes the interactive approach.
No it hasn't. I was wrong. I misread 'exit day' in S.I. 2019/1383 as meaning 'exit day' (31/1/20). However, Section 1 of Schedule 5 of the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020 changed the meaning of 'exit day' from 'exit day' to 'Implementation Phase completion day', 31/12/20. That is now when the 'code 1A' method of avoiding a family permit will disappear.
A visitor cannot travel, cannot work and cannot get married
Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 12:42 pm
by Ibrahim122
Hi
I am Egyptian with a visitor visa. I was planning to marry my Lithuanian fiancee in March but due to travel bans, we couldn't make it. I am in UK now, arrived on March 18th. Now I cannot go back home, I cannot work and I cannot get married in UK. is there anyway I can switch my visa from inside UK or marry my EU fiancee in UK?
Please consider the following:
1- My Lithuanian fiancee lives, works and studies in UK.
2- We have been together for more than two years.
3- We have travel arrangements set for the last 6 months to prove our plans.
4- My visitor visa will expire in October.
Any information in this matter will be highly appreciated.
Thank you
Re: A visitor cannot travel, cannot work and cannot get married
Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 12:44 pm
by CR001
Topics merged!!!
Re: A visitor cannot travel, cannot work and cannot get married
Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 1:13 pm
by Ibrahim122
I am sorry but why has this happened? I dont get it!
Re: A visitor cannot travel, cannot work and cannot get married
Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 1:29 pm
by CR001
Ibrahim122 wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 1:13 pm
I am sorry but why has this happened? I dont get it!
Read the forum rule about multiple topics!!!
announcements/multiple-posts-will-be-lo ... t5722.html
It is so that memebers can see your full circumstances and what advice has been given before rather than repeating the same advice again and again.
Re: A visitor cannot travel, cannot work and cannot get married
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 12:14 am
by Korekt
Ibrahim122 wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 1:13 pm
I am sorry but why has this happened? I dont get it!
And it helps us ask "Are you married or not married"?
See below.
Ibrahim122 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:32 am
We got married in her home country (Lithuania) and we have a sufficient relationship history of 2 years.
Ibrahim122 wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 12:42 pm
Now I cannot go back home, I cannot work and I cannot get married in UK. is there anyway I can switch my visa from inside UK or marry my EU fiancee in UK?
Re: A visitor cannot travel, cannot work and cannot get married
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:02 am
by Zerubbabel
I don't understand if you are married or if you want to marry...