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Hi folks,

I'm Irish and planning on moving to the UK soon with my partner who is non-EU (Mexican).

I am a little confused and worried about the following statement [1] on the gov.uk website:

If you are an Irish citizen and want to support an application from existing non-Irish and non-UK family members who want to remain in the UK with you, or who wish to join you in the future, you will need to be able to prove that you were continuously resident in the UK prior to 31 December 2020

Does this mean that I'll need to settle in the UK before the 31st of December for my partner to be able to join me? If I move to the UK after that date, can she still join me? Does the Common Travel Area not allow my partner to apply to join me regardless of Brexit?

The gov.uk website also says that she must apply for a status under the EU Settlement Scheme. I thought (assumed) that she could apply for a Family/Spouse visa as if I were a British citizen. Is the Family/Spouse visa not available to Irish citizens in the UK?

Lastly, we are waiting to receive an Irish spouse visa right now. Will it be valid in any way in the UK?

Thanks for the help,
Rory

[1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... a-guidance

An Irish spouse visa is only relevant to the Republic of Ireland as it is an Irish domestic immigration visa. It is not relevant to uk immigration.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:32 pm

An Irish spouse visa is only relevant to the Republic of Ireland as it is an Irish domestic immigration visa. It is not relevant to uk immigration.

Yeah I figured as much, just thought I'd ask to be sure. Thanks for the heads up!

I'm mostly hoping to understand the December 31st deadline and what the CTA allows for in terms of my partner joining me before/after that date, though!

roryofbyrne wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:34 pm

I'm mostly hoping to understand the December 31st deadline and what the CTA allows for in terms of my partner joining me before/after that date, though!

Hello. I am in the same boat as you.

As far as I can gather, you will need to establish UK residency by December 31st. However, this I believe, is still quite a grey area for us Irish, in terms of how that can be done. Your wife will still be able to get the EU Settlement Scheme Family Permit before you establish residency/moving to the UK, and as long as she has this, she will also be able to move there after December 31st.

roryofbyrne wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:34 pm

what the CTA allows for in terms of my partner joining me

My guess is, nothing.

As far as I understand, CTA only allows for travel that is free from routine controls between CTA territories. That's it. Residence rights depend on each territory's rules and jurisdictions.

As per CTA's own Immigration Staff guidance:

The CTA was developed to facilitate the principle of free movement for British and Irish citizens between the UK, Ireland and the islands. It ensured that British and Irish citizens continued to benefit from a mutual enjoyment of rights. There are no routine passport controls on routes from within the CTA to the UK. The UK approach, based on the UK legal framework, is for border checks to be undertaken at the first point of entry to the CTA.

Non-European Economic Area (EEA) nationals are subject to the immigration rules of the jurisdiction within the CTA to which they are entering and residing (visa requirements, restrictions on employment and length of stay). EU nationals have existing rights of entry and residence under EU free movement law.

So non-EEA nationals need to comply with UK rules if they intend to reside in the UK. For family members of EU nationals, this means either the soon-to-be retired EEA route, or the Settlement Scheme. In other words, CTA does not remove the fact that your partner still needs to comply with the rules and deadlines of the Settlement Scheme.

Crosshaven wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:36 am

I believe, is still quite a grey area for us Irish, in terms of how that can be done.

I would be cautious to bank on any further special treatment for Irish nationals.

I believe it has been already spelled out very clearly that non-EU family members of Irish nationals do still need to apply for the Settlement Scheme, even though Irish nationals themselves do not need to. Conditions and deadlines are there, it is in the best interest of applicants to try and respect these without assuming there will be alternative ways.

My wild guess is that come January 1st 2020, if at all there is a case for it given the Irish-British context, family members of Irish nationals are more likely to be assimilated into regulations applicable to family members of British nationals, rather than creating a special category for Irish nationals. I say that because otherwise this would create an advantage for their family members compared to family members of British nationals, which, given there was already a 18-month transition period, I do not see happening.

Come January 2021, that is.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:16 am

So non-EEA nationals need to comply with UK rules if they intend to reside in the UK. For family members of EU nationals, this means either the soon-to-be retired EEA route, or the Settlement Scheme. In other words, CTA does not remove the fact that your partner still needs to comply with the rules and deadlines of the Settlement Scheme.

By "EEA route" are you talking about the EEA Family Permit? When will it be retired?

Based on my understanding so far, as long as we submit an application for the EEA Family Permit before December 31st, my partner should get a 6-month permit which allows her to apply for EUSS from within the UK up to June 2021. Does that sound correct?

(We're planning on submitting this month, not in December)

As an aside, is it possible for her to "visit" the UK as a tourist and simply apply for the EUSS from within the UK that way? Is the EEA Family Permit totally necessary?

roryofbyrne wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:48 am

By "EEA route" are you talking about the EEA Family Permit?

Yes, to avoid any doubts, EEA Family Permit and EEA Residence Card are the two documents for non-EU nationals that are still issued under the route I mean by 'EEA route'.

When will it be retired?

This has been anyone's guess for a while now. There has been no official communication of shutdown. My guess is, at the latest, December 31st 2020, as that is the end of the transition period. But, this does not mean it is a good idea to bank on this date and wait until then to apply.

Based on my understanding so far, as long as we submit an application for the EEA Family Permit before December 31st, my partner should get a 6-month permit which allows her to apply for EUSS from within the UK up to June 2021. Does that sound correct?

Yeah... on paper. Again, the earliest you apply, the better. Keep in mind that if you are unmarried she probably needs to have her EEA permit issued before the end of 2020, so, really don't leave for last minute. See this post.

As an aside, is it possible for her to "visit" the UK as a tourist and simply apply for the EUSS from within the UK that way? Is the EEA Family Permit totally necessary?

Not if you are unmarried, since unmarried partners need to have had a EEA-issued document to be able to apply. And again, as explained in link above, I believe this EEA-document needs to be issued in 2020. I might be wrong in assuming this, but best not to bank on it.

Very odd that anyone would insinuate the Irish are looking for special favours.

The Irish will follow the rules just like everyone else.

Anyway, a few important points:

The Family Permit is valid for 6 months from the date of issue. So, if your spouse is not planning to move until nearer May or June next year, then I wouldn't agree with, 'the earlier you apply the better'.

Also let's not muddy the waters here and talk about British spousal visas for a spouse of an Irish citizen. This after all, is a forum for discussing EEA/EU visas, to be applied for under EU law in the UK.

Finally, there is most definitely a grey as to what qualifies as establishing residency in the UK. I have been told, merely flying to the UK for one day would suffice.

Crosshaven wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:33 pm

Very odd that anyone would insinuate the Irish are looking for special favours.

The comment is meant to warn against blind-trusting that the current government will cater for the needs of Irish citizens, given some provisions are already in place. If there is a critic implied, it is for the Home Office, not for Irish citizens. But point taken, I see how you could interpret the opposite.

The Family Permit is valid for 6 months from the date of issue. So, if your spouse is not planning to move until nearer May or June next year, then I wouldn't agree with, 'the earlier you apply the better'.

From the way they word it, I believe the OP might be an unmarried partner. If that's the case, they are in a much precarious situation, where it is not crystal clear that a document issued after Dec 2020 would allow them to apply.

Also let's not muddy the waters here and talk about British spousal visas for a spouse of an Irish citizen. This after all, is a forum for discussing EEA/EU visas, to be applied for under EU law in the UK.

Bringing the topic of a 'grey area for Irish nationals' is the start of mudding the waters. But you are right, this is all speculation, let's focus this conversation and stick to the rules that are in place.

Finally, there is most definitely a grey as to what qualifies as establishing residency in the UK. I have been told, merely flying to the UK for one day would suffice.

That's an old conversation. Here is a more recent post that makes the case for earlier, more structured stay, to be able to qualify.

For context, yes my partner is unmarried.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:09 am

When will it be retired?

This has been anyone's guess for a while now. There has been no official communication of shutdown. My guess is, at the latest, December 31st 2020, as that is the end of the transition period. But, this does not mean it is a good idea to bank on this date and wait until then to apply.

We're hoping to get an application in within a week, and the follow-up with biometrics ASAP.

Do you know how long EEA FP applications take to be processed? Is there anywhere I can see other peoples' timelines for this application?

roryofbyrne wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:27 pm

Do you know how long EEA FP applications take to be processed?

From the best of my understanding, I believe this varies greatly and depends on the country you apply in (from a few days to a few weeks, to a few months). I also believe that during the current covid situation, applications will likely take longer than what was reported on previous years.

Is there anywhere I can see other peoples' timelines for this application?

There is this post, although, from what I can see there, looks like it is mostly used by people with non-straightforward applications, and might not constitute a representative sample of EEA FP applications throughout the world. But I say this afer only browsing quickly through it, I might be mistaken.

My general understanding is that, Family Permits are usually issued within days or weeks (mine was issued within three days in Colombia, back in 2016), which means it is a quick turnaround that is not long enough for people to have the need to follow other people's timelines (people would not bother posting and following if they got theirs within a week). The idea of timelines makes sense for applications that take months to be resolved, like Residence Cards and ILRs.

Now, again... covid factored in, the landscape might be different in 2020. Hence why early applications are not a bad idea.