Need advice - am I eligible for spouse or family visa?

[sphealie]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum, so apologies if this thread is in the wrong place (wasn't sure whether it should be in this forum or in the general immigration one...)

First I'll try to give a quick back-story before asking my question. I am a 24 year-old US citizen wanting to marry my 27 year-old British citizen and live with him in the UK. We have been together for 3 1/2 years (met in university in Wales), but since we are both recently out of uni, finding him a job that pays the £18.6k has been difficult. At the moment he makes roughly £12k working full-time at a pub.

My mom has lived in Wales since I was 11 (although I lived in the US until I started university in the UK many years later) and she is not a citizen, but has ILR and is eligible to become a British citizen (though she lost her passport ages ago and is in the process of getting a new one before doing anything else). She has also been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and has been declining in the past couple years. So now, not only do I want to be with my fiance, I also want to be close to my mom while she is suffering from MS.

Basically, any advice would be great. We're trying for a spouse or fiance visa, but until my fiance meets the financial requirement, we're afraid that route will be impossible. However, my mom suggested (and I don't know how wrong she is on this, but feel free to let me know) that we could apply anyway and just include a smashing cover letter explaining my situation which will somehow melt the hearts of the immigration officers enough to give me the spouse visa without the financial requirement.

I've heard from others that we could do that, and we will be refused, but then we could have a good chance of me getting a spouse visa if we appealed against the refusal. Is that true at all?

Finally, I was told by yet someone else that I could be eligible for one of the "join family in the uk" visas on the grounds that I would join my mother as her carer. However, on the gov website, I see nothing confirming nor denying whether that would be viable, so I'm skeptical.

Anyway, any advice or information is appreciated. We've been struggling with this since we graduated and realized just how difficult it would be to be together. I'm in the UK now and until April on a tourist visa and would really like to come up with a game plan before I have to return.

For some last bits of information, the SS route is our last resort so any advice aside from that is preferred. I don't have anywhere to live in America (whenever I go back, I live a somewhat-unwelcome existence on the couch in my aunt's guest room). In the UK, I live with my fiance and his parents in their family home, and also have the option of us going to my mom's house nearby, so housing is never an issue.

Let me know if any other info is required. I'm desperate to be able to start my life with my future husband and be close to my mom for good, rather than have to go back and forth forever between my real home and the unfavorable position at my aunt's in the US. Thank you for reading xx

[CR001]

HO don't factor 'emotions' into account so a letter would mean nothing to them. Their hearts 'don't melt', they follow the immigration rules/laws to the letter.

If your partner does not meet the financial requirement, your visa will be refused. If you appeal (assuming you get the right to appeal), and he still does not meet the financial requirement, it will be refused again. The financial requirement is a non-negotiable requirement.

You don't qualify for the 'join family in the UK' to join your mother as you are over 18. You would have qualified if you were under 18 and you/she met all the requirements.

You should also note that there is no possibility of changing or switching into another visa category (fiance/spouse etc) while you are on a visit visa, the rules do not allow it.

SS route is easier but has its own obstacles as you are not married. User noajthan or secret.simon could explain more for you.

[sphealie]

HO don't factor 'emotions' into account so a letter would mean nothing to them. Their hearts 'don't melt', they follow the immigration rules/laws to the letter.

I'm very aware of the robotic inhumanity of HO, however, try telling that to my idealistic mother; that part was her idea :\

Otherwise I guess it's all as I assumed. Is there really no way for me to come as a carer for my mom? I was told by some other people that I could do that but wasn't given much more info aside from "lol yes it will work!"

The only thing about the SS route that scares us is that we'd have to give up our home and my fiance's job and only income to completely relocate to a place we've never been to and don't have a home or a job in. The logistics and complexity of everything really freaks me out :C

[CR001]

I know my advice sounds harsh, but I have seen to many tears on the forum after applications not quite meeting the requirement and migrants thinking HO will be sympathetic. It really is black and white, no shade of grey.

Can your fiance get a second job to up his income or look for a job in another area maybe? Unless he has £62,500 in savings (for a minimum of 6 months), he will need to earn £18,600pa or the equivalent for 6 months to sponsor you.

Carer would be a difficult route (if at all possible) and no guarantee of success, given the support infrastructure in the UK.

Doing the Surinder Singh route, he can do any type of work, there is no income requirement for this route. You would also not have to pay huge visa fees or the immigration health surcharge.

The route is the same as spouse visa, 5 years residence then ILR /PR and then citizenship.

[sphealie]

I know; my mom admittedly is really good at writing letters to people, but regardless of what I've told her, she still believes that her Shakespearean writing will sway these people. Hence me writing a thread on here =P

After having taken a quick soul-soothing break during Christmas, we've begun looking for new jobs now and have updated all his CVs. Unfortunately his preferred job is anything animal-related, and entry-level animal jobs rarely shell out more than £15-16k. However, we're also looking into second jobs, so if we could find something nice that pays at least a bit higher than £12k, we have a bunch of brainstormed ideas for second jobs to look into

For SS, would I be able to work as well (once we're married and moved, say, to Ireland and have settled and such). I'm less worried about details since I'm wont to just throw myself into everything, but my fiance is mainly scared that even if he gets work quickly, it won't be enough to keep us living in a flat and keep us fed.

Frankly I wouldn't mind SS because I have good friends in Ireland who I know would let us stay at theirs until we found a flat and work, but my fiance's the more cautious one and I'm at a loss for how to convince him that this probably would be the easiest way of just getting us sorted :\

And sorry to ask another question, but -- if we ended up opting for SS, how much preparation is there before we make the move and begin living in Ireland? I was thinking of making a deal with him that we'll see what work we can get him now, but if nothing pans out by March or April (when my tourist visa runs out), we do my plan and do SS.

Thanks again for reading and advising <3

[CR001]

You could work in Ireland yes, so that is not an issue.

Not much too preparation as far as I am aware. Noajthan is very good with this, as is secret.simon. Hopefully they will be online this evening and can provide you with information.

In the meantime, have a look at the Ireland forum link below and browse through to see read what you can.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/ireland/

[noajthan]

Good evening CR001.

Well seems to me its Surinder Singh or bust.

You're not really giving up a home - you can get back to it.
Is fiance really (really) tied to job in pub?

A quick wedding & 6 months or so in somewhere like Malta or Eire will be the making of you.

Both English speaking.
Both offer interesting lifestyle options, cultures & climates.
Fiance could work in a pub (in either country).

You will never be so mobile & free of baggage.
It'll be the adventure of a lifetime, think of it as the gap year you never got round to at uni.

On your return you'll be under EU rules, no financial requirements &, looking ahead, no LITUK nonsense either.

Alternately you could spend 6 months struggling to save up in US/UK & be very little further ahead at the end of it.

Food for thought surely.

You are young, you are free - go for it!
(Some of us oldtimers may also have to do this & for various reasons, yet we have families to contemplate dragging around Europe).

Best of British luck.

[CR001]

Thank you, Noajthan to the rescue as usual (will start picking your brain/knowledge in the next year or so too)

[secret.simon]

I second Noajthan's advice.

Indeed, it seems to me that the Surinder Singh route is tailor-made for your situation.

What could be more romantic than getting married in Paris or Rome? The six months in Europe could also be your honeymoon.

It appears to me that your fiance has a job that is easily transferable to almost any tourism location. Why confine yourself to a pub in Wales when you could be managing a youth hostel in Rome or a student bar in Prague (I've met British students doing both). Paris is awash with American tourists who can't speak French. if either of you can, you pretty much have a job waiting for you.

You are young, you are free - go for it!

Best of British luck.

Again, I completely agree with Noajthan.

As an aside, I had no idea that I was an expert on Surinder Singh (the other SS from my point of view). For the purpose of full disclosure, I will clarify that I have not undertaken that route myself.

[CR001]

As an aside, I had no idea that I was an expert on Surinder Singh (the other SS from my point of view). For the purpose of full disclosure, I will clarify that I have not undertaken that route myself.

It is is your amazingly tactful and enlightening way of offering advice or insight into immigration matters that has prompted my comment

[sphealie]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and support! I'm super excited, I think I may have finally convinced my fiance to take the plunge and do the SS route after we get married in a month or two!

We're going to sit down together and read into the SS route properly/start making plans on his next day off next week, but in the meantime I had one more question -- can we go together to the EU country from the UK, or do I have to go to the EU country from my country, the US? I ask because I'm here in the UK now until April, so I was hoping we could just go to Ireland together instead of me having to go all the way back to the US and them come all the way back to Ireland. And do we have to say anything special when we enter Ireland, or do we just say we're visiting friends?

Okay one more question actually. I've looked this up online but just want to hear from one of you guys to be certain, but the UK/EU referendum/Brexit thing would make the SS route no longer viable, is that correct? Is that something I need to be worried about very soon or is it being pushed off far enough in the future that it 3-4 months in Ireland would be totally fine?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks so much again, everyone! xx

[CR001]

Should be fine to go from the UK.

Any outcome of the referendum WILL NOT be instance exit. There are many logistical and political aspects that would need to be sorted out and would likely take a couple of years.

Doing SS sooner rather than later should still be fine.

[noajthan]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and support! I'm super excited, I think I may have finally convinced my fiance to take the plunge and do the SS route after we get married in a month or two!

We're going to sit down together and read into the SS route properly/start making plans on his next day off next week, but in the meantime I had one more question -- can we go together to the EU country from the UK, or do I have to go to the EU country from my country, the US? I ask because I'm here in the UK now until April, so I was hoping we could just go to Ireland together instead of me having to go all the way back to the US and them come all the way back to Ireland. And do we have to say anything special when we enter Ireland, or do we just say we're visiting friends?

...

Sorry for all the questions and thanks so much again, everyone! xx

As US citizen you are visa free.
You may not be questioned; you are entitled to explain you are exercising free movement rights.

See here: https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... a-citizen/

&
This will fill you on on EU free movement:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/ci ... nt_low.pdf

And see 'Surinder Singh success thread' in the forum - all about Eire:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 69701.html

[sphealie]

Oh good, I admittedly know next to nothing about politics in general, let alone British politics, but the idea that the SS route might no longer be viable was scary to me. Good to know that that'll be fine for a long while to come! Thank you xx

[sphealie]

Thanks for letting me know! And thanks as well for the links -- I'm excited to start looking through everything! xx

[noajthan]

Thanks for letting me know! And thanks as well for the links -- I'm excited to start looking through everything! xx

Exciting times. Imagine the relationship you will mould & strengthen as you start married life in the crucible of Europe.

An important concept to be aware of (so it doesn't catch you out) is the UK's controversial 'centre of life' test.

This is a kind of UK-specific wrapper of tests & requirements to be satisfied on eventual return to UK.
It has been put around the clean & pure European concepts of free movement (as embodied in SS).

As it's UK-specific the HO can & does tinker with the 'c-o-l' rules from time to time - make sure you keep abreast of this.

You need to fulfill basic SS requirements & also prove, to satisfaction of HO, that you moved your joint centre of life during your sojourn in Europe..

This article explains it well:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/surinde ... ion-route/

PS Final thought: there is nothing to stop your mother joining you on this journey too;
dependent ascendant relatives of the EEA couple (ie parents, grandparents!) are direct family members too.

These dependents are welcome to particiate in family (re)unification & EU free movement so that the economically-active EEA national is not constrained in any way.

(An absence from UK of less than 2 years will not revoke mom's ILR).
Food for thought I'm sure.

[sphealie]

Exciting times. Imagine the relationship you will mould & strengthen as you start married life in the crucible of Europe.

Ah, thanks for the clarification and links about centre of life -- I remember having read about it briefly somewhere so I'm glad to be reminded of it to keep it in mind!

A thought just struck me though -- will my fiance and I be able to get married in the UK? I'm only on a tourist visa now, but we wanted to marry in the UK so my mom, his family and our friends could attend, rather than expect them all to go to the US or somewhere else and see us get married. Is there any way I can marry him on a tourist visa here before we go to Ireland?

[Casa]

Doubtful as the rules for foreign nationals marrying in the UK have tightened. You are now required to register your intent to marry at a Home Office designated Registry office. The Registrar is legally bound to notify the Home Office, who can then extend the notification period from 28 to 70 days in order to interview you both before the wedding can take place should they choose to do so. They don't approve of a marriage taking place when a visitor visa has been used to enter instead of a fiance or marriage visitor visa. You would have to explain that your intention changed during your time here and that you came here solely to visit.