Marriage Visitor Visa Intention for Settlement

[Jon.Mason]

One of the questions when applying for a Marriage Visitor visa is whether you intend to settle afterwards.

Our intention is for my partner to return home after the marriage, but may look to settle in the UK later on down the line, i.e. after she returns home.

Does ticking that we have no intention to settle mean that she will not be permitted to apply for a spousal visa at a later date, even if she returns home first?

Just wanted to keep options open. Don't want to lose the chance to settle here in future just for 6 months here now.

Is this mainly just aimed at people who might try to stay and settle during their 6 month marriage visitor visa? Or literally anyone who ever forsees themselves settling in the UK at any point in their futures?

[Jon.Mason]

Also, we have already done a marriage ceremony in her country that is legally recognized. So technically we are already married.

The visa form asks "What is your current marital status"? If I put "engaged to marry", that is technically incorrect because we are married. If I put "Married" then they will say you cannot come here to marry if you are already married. If I apply for a visitor visa, one of the conditions is not to perform a marriage ceremony whilst here. So whichever option I pick, I seem to be stuck, because there will be some issue they can "get" me for.

[Casa]

If you are already legally married, why are you intending to 're-marry' in the UK?

[CR001]

If you are already legally married, why are you intending to 're-marry' in the UK?

Casa, I suspect the marriage is an islamic one given that the wife/fiance is Moroccan.

But agree, don't know why the OP is doing marriage visitor visa instead of spouse settlement visa.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... l#p1312761

[Casa]

Yes, but Islamic marriages performed in Morocco also come under Court jurisdiction. This means that they are recognised under British law.

[Jon.Mason]

Well if I am honest I am into genealogy and wanted a marriage documented in British records, and also it would have been nice to marry in my country as well as my partners. But I contacted the registry office and they said you can't marry twice anyway, you can renew vows but that won't be a proper record.

I am unclear on which document from the Moroccon marriage was the legally recognised marriage document in the UK, anyone know which document serves as official proof of marriage?

Also, I just wanted my partner here for a few months on a cheap visa with no right to work or settle or medical etc initially so we can have a few months together in the UK.

We cant afford a 2 year marriage visa yet due to the astronomical costs and also I would like to clear off some debts and save up a bit before we buy a house and live here permanently.

So basically, just wanted my wife over for a few months. Would have been nice to do a marriage ceremony here too so I had a clearly recognized legal document etc for future needs. As an amateur genealogist I guess I will just have to put up with not having any marriage on record. I have copies of a lot of my forefathers marriage certificates which I keep track of on Ancestry.com and would have been nice to add mine to that, but guess the Moroccan one will have to do as a scan.

The main thing I want at the moment is a few months with my partner. Since I work full time then the time I get in Morocco is limited so would like her here for a few months with a relatively hasstle free visa (fiancee visas cost £87 verses settlement visas costing around £1500 with NHS surcharge".

We are not in a position for this visa yet but dont want to lose time apart in the meantime.

[Jon.Mason]

I guess this might be what I am looking for. Can a married couple use this?

https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa/overview

[CR001]

Unlikely she will be granted a visitor visa if her spouse is living and working in the UK. HO/UKVI have become very wise to the abuse in the past of couples doing this to avoid the costly spouse settlement visa.

For a visitor visa, what exactly would your wife be able to provide as proof of her ties to Morocco?

[Casa]

I guess this might be what I am looking for. Can a married couple use this?

https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa/overview

Yes, but in order for the application to be approved your wife will have to submit strong evidence of ties to Morocco. This would include evidence such as permanent employment, property ownership, ongoing education, family dependants etc. With a husband in the UK this may prove difficult.
She doesn't qualify for a fiance visa or a marriage visitor visa as you are already legally married.
Be aware that visa fees generally increase annually (in fact they increased for this year three days ago).

Edit: Beaten again by Miss Speedy Fingers, CR001

[Jon.Mason]

Unlikely she will be granted a visitor visa if her spouse is living and working in the UK. HO/UKVI have become very wise to the abuse in the past of couples doing this to avoid the costly spouse settlement visa.

For a visitor visa, what exactly would your wife be able to provide as proof of her ties to Morocco?

She has a Moroccan passport. She is still physically in Morocco. She has never actually set foot in the UK. All her family are in Morocco. So she has clear ties with Morocco.

It's not really an "abuse", a visitor visa doesn't allow her to settle here, just pay a visa at my expense. I have the ability to cover all the costs and she is only coming for a couple of months. A settlement visa would give us 2 years, give her the right to work, health services etc. Plus leads towards citizenship or ILR. So they are just two different options. Someone on a visitor visa has to return home and can't work so its completely different. They in effect only contribute money without any recourse to taking anything out of the economy.

[Jon.Mason]

I just want a couple of months with my wife. Not looking for her to settle here yet. Surely that is possibe.

[Casa]

I just want a couple of months with my wife. Not looking for her to settle here yet. Surely that is possibe.

Apart from having family in Morocco (unless they are dependent on her), what evidence do you propose to submit showing that she has stronger ties to Morocco to ensure she will return home, than she has to remain in the UK?

Entry Clearance Officers don't make decisions based on emotions, you both wanting to spend some time together for example. They simply follow the guidance in the Immigration Rules.

[Jon.Mason]

Well what do the rules say? I am the breadwinner of the relationship. She studies in Morocco. I would have thought you do not have to be a property tycoon to get a visitor visa. Where is the list of "rules" for what she needs in order to be granted a visitor visa? The fact that I have a full time 35k permanent position and can easily bring her here permanently in future when I have had a chance to prepare everything and save up the necessary funds should surely count for something?

I am surprised if family visitor visas are only available to those who own property or financially support their family. Her dad has a good job working for government and looks after her and the rest of the family. They have a good standard of living in Morocco. I have never come across any guidance or rules that state you need to be a bread winner or property owner in order to be granted a visitor visa. As far as I knew, as long as I have the ability to provide for her during her visit then its fine. Do you know where I can read about these restrictions you mention as I cannot find them anywhere on the gov website

[Wanderer]

Well what do the rules say? I am the breadwinner of the relationship. She studies in Morocco. I would have thought you do not have to be a property tycoon to get a visitor visa. Where is the list of "rules" for what she needs in order to be granted a visitor visa? The fact that I have a full time 35k permanent position and can easily bring her here permanently in future when I have had a chance to prepare everything and save up the necessary funds should surely count for something?

I am surprised if family visitor visas are only available to those who own property or financially support their family. Her dad has a good job working for government and looks after her and the rest of the family. They have a good standard of living in Morocco. I have never come across any guidance or rules that state you need to be a bread winner or property owner in order to be granted a visitor visa. As far as I knew, as long as I have the ability to provide for her during her visit then its fine. Do you know where I can read about these restrictions you mention as I cannot find them anywhere on the gov website

It's what goes on in practice, the IOs on the ground are a suspicious lot, assume that everyone's playing the 'Once I'm in, I'll play the Yooman Rights card and get to stay' err, card.

Watch some eps of UK Border Force, it'll open your eyes!

[Casa]

Well what do the rules say? I am the breadwinner of the relationship. She studies in Morocco. I would have thought you do not have to be a property tycoon to get a visitor visa. Where is the list of "rules" for what she needs in order to be granted a visitor visa? The fact that I have a full time 35k permanent position and can easily bring her here permanently in future when I have had a chance to prepare everything and save up the necessary funds should surely count for something?

I am surprised if family visitor visas are only available to those who own property or financially support their family. Her dad has a good job working for government and looks after her and the rest of the family. They have a good standard of living in Morocco. I have never come across any guidance or rules that state you need to be a bread winner or property owner in order to be granted a visitor visa. As far as I knew, as long as I have the ability to provide for her during her visit then its fine. Do you know where I can read about these restrictions you mention as I cannot find them anywhere on the gov website

If you read through my post again, you will note that I gave suggestions of options showing home ties. Education was one of them and it should be obvious that I wasn't suggesting that all need to be shown in the application. The majority of visitor visa refusals (which we see frequently on the forum) are from applicants who have failed to convince the ECO that they have more reason to return to the home country than they have to remain in the UK...as already explained.
You may find it informative to read through the UKVI guidance to Immigration Officers.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e_v4_0.pdf

[Jon.Mason]

Ok thanks. I think she gave just finished her education. She literally chills at home and spends her dads money currently. I don't know how I will prove an intention beyond the fact that we are both from respectful and responsible backgrounds and unlikely to jeapardise a chance at a legit settlement visa and future together in the UK with the approval of the authorities for the sake of trying to pull a fast one. Honestly, it is so true what they say "whoever prefers their security over their freedom deserves neither". Why anyone is ok with a responsible tax paying citizen being prevented from seeing his wife at no expense to the tax payer is beyond me. Lets just hope they dont end up meeting someone abroad and facing the consequences of the policies they support. I understand financial requirements, since you do need to be able to actually pay for the needs of your visitor, but if I have the money and we have a marriage document then that should be it really. Clean bill of health, valid passport etc. These highly subjective suspicious rules aimed at "weeding out" abusers of the system really do make everyone elses lives more difficult. Our freedom sacrificed to "keep the bloody foreigners out".

[CR001]

Our freedom sacrificed to "keep the bloody foreigners out".

And most of us here on the forum (members, moderators and respected gurus) are actually foreigners and have paid the huge fees and jumped through the HO hoops to be here.

[Casa]

This article may be of interest: http://www.aboutimmigration.co.uk/visa- ... oblem.html

Unfortunately, we see a regular occurrence on the forum of husband/wives/parents/brother & sisters who have arrived in the UK from all parts of the world on a visitor visa and then decided to fight their cause to stay under HR. This may be due to the fact that they are unable to meet the Rules for settlement visas, or simply to avoid the high visa fees that are currently delaying your wife's application. Some decide that they don't want to spend time apart again while an application is submitted outside of the UK and will hang on here for years hoping to legalise their residence.
The ball is totally in your wife's court to show why she would prefer to reside in Morocco at the present time and not in the UK with you. There needs to be sufficient documented evidence to support this, but only you and your wife can decide what you have available to strengthen the application.

Edit: Further to CR001's post. My husband is Moroccan by birth and it was a long and expensive road to British citizenship....but even longer and more costly now than it was back in 2006.

[Jon.Mason]

I just called the government immigration guys with the premium £1.50 a minute advice line.

They advised that a letter from her family explaining that they are happy to take care of her, and that she is just coming for a few months to spend time with her husband for now as we are not ready to permanently settle together yet, and I need time to save more money to improve our future etc should go in her parents letter, my letter of invitation, and the additional notes section. Its only an £87 cost for application so I will give it a go. It seems tricky to "prove" that she doesn't have any intention of foul play, but I intend to just make clear that we have every ability and intention to apply for a settlement visa in the future and we just want to spend a bit of time together now. I will just have to try and make sure I give the right picture of a responsible couple who play by the rules and want to use the visa for intended purpose and not as a "trojan horse".

I understand people have abused this but its incredibly difficult to prove your good intentions. Not everyone in Moroccan or British society are investors or property owners. I myself am an investor and have a decent full time job so I will have to try and show my own responsible character. I have a help to buy ISA as well and am saving for a deposit on a mortgage so I think it is not unreasonable that I want more time to build our situation more fully before I bring her over permanently for a future.

I will keep you all posted as maybe others might face similar circumstances.

If anyone has further advice or suggestions it will be great.

[Casa]

Good luck with your wife's application. Don't rely too much on 'advice' given over the £1.50 a minute UKVI 'help line'. They are notoriously inaccurate with their information even on simplest of immigration issues. I suspect this service may be out-sourced and the 'advisors' have a very limited/basic level of knowledge. They take no responsibility for the advice given. I strongly suggest that you find more support than just a letter from the parents saying they are happy to look after her.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/immigra ... pectation/

[Jon.Mason]

Ok, in our circumstances, is there anything else that might help our application?

[Casa]

Ok, in our circumstances, is there anything else that might help our application?

Difficult now that her study has finished as that would generally be considered as a 'home tie' and she's unemployed.

[Jon.Mason]

ok, but what elsecud we use? a woman doesn't have to work or study to be comfortable. Paris Hilton springs to mind. There is such a thing as a spoiled princess lol. My wife lves in a luxury apartment in a major city cetre with security and a underground car park. They own the house. Their Dad has a good job and provides a ver comfortable living. Surely proof of his houe and inome shows she is not escaping some destitute situation and has a very comfortabe lifesyle to return home to. How else can we prove our intention?

[Casa]

It's not a questions of being 'comfortable' or whether she lives in luxury or not. Don't be under the illusion that all overstayers are from deprived backgrounds with a poor standard of living. As I've said previously, many are simply attempting the by-pass the visa system or once here decide they prefer to stay with the family member in the UK, but then I'm simply repeating myself. I suppose the 'elephant in the room' may be why finances and the cost of the visa application are preventing her from joining you now. This is something that may well come under the ECO's scrutiny. She could submit evidence of her father's Government employment, but I don't know that it would carry any weight.
Applications are now sent to Paris for processing, after (let's call it) 'administration issues' in the Rabat visa application centre. For a fee of £87 you might as well give it a try and if it fails this time at least you know what you need to improve on for the next attempt.

[Jon.Mason]

I have considered everyones advice and decided I will just save up and wait for the settlement visa. I was advised that since I am just in the process of changing jobs, to get 6 payslips before I apply.

My wife is also pregnant and the baby is due in September, so I am guessing having a baby is proof of a sustaining relationship?

My current job is a 25k 1 year contract and new job is a 35k permanent contract starting in may so I am guessing I am better off applying in the new year after I have 6 payslips from new job and our baby was born. Any advice or comments?