Financial Requirement

[ukthesis]

I am hoping to marry a lady from Moldova in about a year. I have over the financial threshold for a Marriage Visa and others to bring her into the country as her sponsor. I meet it through my savings, but not by my low income. But when can I spend some of these savings? In other words, when (at what stage of the immigration procedure) does the financial requirement not matter and when can we get on with our lives and start to spend some of my savings without worrying about the impact on her immigration status?

[Casa]

The savings will still have to be in your account when you apply for your wife's spouse visa after the wedding on form FLR(M). You're expected to continue to meet the financial minimum (either by savings or income) at the 2.5 year mark when your wife will have to apply for another 2.5 year extension....and again when she applies for permanent residency at the end of the 5 year probationary period.
Are you topping up a low income with savings, or are you relying entirely on savings? Savings must have been held in an account for a minimum of 6 months.
Once she has been granted her FLR(M) spouse visa she will be able to work in the UK legally and any joint income will be included in future calculations.

[ukthesis]

I only just learned today that I might be able to qualify for the "adequate maintenance" financial requirement. I have claimed for many years an industrial injuries benefit of (at the moment) £62 per week (I won't go into why, but it's a benefit connected to the local jobs market, so it fluctuates in value). This seems to mean that I can get my Moldovan fiancee, outside the EU, into the UK on a marriage visa at a "reduced" rate. Is this correct? How do I calculate what this means, hopefully by an easy methodology to understand? Presumably, this reduced rate will also apply at the stages of TLR and ILR?

The other point. I have well over the amount of savings even to meet the normal financial requirement, over £100,000 in savings. What I can't figure out is how much this requirement comes to. There was a figure given in the press of a straight £65,000 in savings as the minimum requirement, but UK Border Agency material I've seen makes no mention of this. Instead, there's a document I downloaded which I've still to understand the gist of, because of the complications it describes.

I have an income as well as savings. The income alone does not meet the minimum requirement. But can I use BOTH my income and the savings to meet the requirement? This would mean that I won't have to declare as much of my savings to meet the requirement.

I ask this because I was hoping to spend much of my savings on a larger house. But if I only declare my savings and not my income, at the TLR and ILR stages they will presumably expect me to still have the same amount of savings in order to continue to qualify. So this locks me into a situation where I won't be able to spend much of my savings for the whole 5 years period to citizenship status.

[MPH80]

I've responded to your other post about adequate maintenance.

The reason you can't find a 'straight' figure for the savings in the UKBA document is that it depends on how many people you're applying for and how much income you've got.

The formula is: (income short fall * 2.5) + 16000.

So if you're applying for one adult, no children, and have no income - then the calculation is: (18600 * 2.5) + 16000 = £62,500.

Keep in mind that once your partner is in the UK - she can use her income towards the income thresholds. So providing she has a job for more than 6 months at each renewal you won't need to show the savings.

[ukthesis]

Thanks again for the sage advice.

Do you feel it's worth my while hiring a specialist immigration lawyer? The web advice I read is that most of the time, the paperwork goes through quite smoothly without their help and through using internet tools. It's quite rare for complications requiring the intervention of professionals to emerge.

If you do feel it's a good idea to pay one, would you recommend a level 1 or level 3 service? Clearly, cost is the factor.

In my case, I'm 62 years old, the lady is 50, neither of us has been in toruble with the law in our countries, we both come from "respectable" backgrounds, and we have met in person. So hardly, I would imagine,the kind of people they get het up about at UK immigration as threats or requiring special treatment that would require the full blown intervention of lawyers, and appeals. I meet the financial requirement whichever way it's done.

I imagine hiring a lawyerat the basic level to check the paperwork would be advisable, since the internet information doesn't seem to deal with complications, or the info is hard to find on the net. Something like a tariff of £350 seems to be an average.

I speak through Skype with the lady almost daily and we met once in Moldova. I'm returning in 10 days, also for 5 nights.

So that makes two physical visits to see her. How many more do you think I would have to make to Moldova to satisfy UK immigration? And how many visits will she have to make here?

Best.

[MPH80]

If you qualify - there's no need for an immigration specialist - it's just a question of working it all through.

On the benefits thing from the other thread - the key is to be receiving the PRECISE benefits they mention. They don't say 'an' industrial injury disablement benefit - they say you must be receiving 'industrial injury disablement benefit'.

If you look at the report you yourself referenced - it's listed as a separate benefit to reduced earnings allowance. So while REA comes under the general heading of 'industrial injury benefit' - it's not the benefit you need to be claiming to be exempt from the financial requirements of a spouse visa.

[ukthesis]

Ok point taken.

So returning to the normal way of meeting the financial requirement, can I use a mixture of income and savings? In other words, for the marriage visa, for TLR and ILR, it's not just one or the other?

So, my gross (before tax) income doesn't qualify, at about £150 a week. But I have over £100,000 in savings (instantly available). Now I could I suppose simply tell them I have the savings, and not even mention the income I have.

But that would cause problems down the line. So let's say that I spend some of this savings after marriage. This might mean that when I next come to apply for a visa, the TLR or ILR, my savings are, at this later stage, slightly below the minimum savings threshold.

Obviously, if I can "mix" my income of £150 a week with my savings when they are combined to go over the threshhold (eg if my income is £150 a week, I then require an additional £30,000 in savings to meet the standard), that will give greater flexibility and the opportunity for me to spend some of my savings in the interim.

If this mixing and matching of income and savings to meet the requirement is perfectly possible to do, can you direct me to a way of calculating the mixture of income and savings I will need to pass muster, with this in mind?

[MPH80]

As I said before - you can completely rely on your savings now. Once your partner has arrived in the UK and begins work - then her income will be taken into account at the next point.

If you don't want her (or she doesn't want) to work - then that's a different problem - and I THINK that benefit derived income is specifically excluded from the minimum income threshold of £18,600.

Think about it this way - what the government are interested in is whether you can sustain yourself and your wife without asking for more public funds. They do this by saying 'what's the minimum amount it takes' and they look at the income support benefits to say that this is the minimum they expect people to live on - and that's how they got to £18,600. Now if you then say 'ok - well - I'm going to use savings' - they say 'fine - but since you're going to be spending those savings, and we don't want you claiming benefits to support your family - you need to show us that you have enough that would prevent you claiming benefits and on top of that have enough that you can draw down on the savings over the 2.5 year period of the visa".

Hence how you end up at 16000 + (shortfall * 2.5).

It's a logical approach - but the question of fairness has resulted in it being tied up in the high court awaiting a legal challenge (which will probably end up in the supreme court, followed by the European Courts - so don't hold your breath).

M.

[ukthesis]

Thanks once more. I sometimes feel like I'm drowning in these rules and regulations.

I am also researching the question of her opportunities for local college education (the ESOL English language courses) once married here. She speaks some English, but she does want to work after marriage, and her English isn't really up to scratch. I was originally advised by local colleges that as she's from outside the EU, she would have to wait for 12 months from date of marriage to access courses as a Home student. This is contradicted by other information I've since obtained, but this competing advice is (helpfully!) on two different grounds.

To return to this. So to pass the "test" at the spousal visa level, which i think is the first time this requirement comes into play (general visitor visas obviously don't include it) I just use the savings criterion. Anything like £100,000 in savings is absolutely no problem for their purposes. I could mix the savings and income together (but not with the REA benefit) but what's the point? This gets us the marriage visa to marry within 6 months.

The next hurdle is the TLR, right? So we apply for this visa, soon after marriage? They presumably ask the same question about the financial requirement and I give more or less the same answer as some months before (my savings being slightly reduced until she finds work after doing the ESOL course, but still easily acceptable).

The final hurdle is the ILR, at the end of 30 months of the TLR? By this time, we expect her to have found employment. She can include her income on the visa application form, now she's had the time to start a career. And I can include my income minus the REA. This has the advantage of enabling us to reduce the savings figure we give the authorities yet we can still pass the test because the joint income figure has made it up to a required level.

In other words, I would be unwise to go on a spending spree (eg by guying a new house) using the savings I declared on the marriage visa form, until I've completed the TLR visa form. After receiving the TLR, we then have 30 months in which to establish her in work. If she is in good work, we can spend some of those savings I have. Then, at the end of the TLR 30 months period, when the ILR visa comes into play, while our reduced savings alone might not qualify, our joint income will make up the difference to the required level.

Is this the picture?

BTW - there must be many cases where, for example, the husband or wife, or both, lose their jobs shortly before having to meet this requirement. So they are unlucky enough to be temporarily in a situation where (for example) their joint incomes fall below the threshhold and they don't have savings to make it up to the required level. People move into and out of jobs all the time and lives change all the time. What happens if this is the case for a couple who have gone through the marriage visa and TLR stages through meeting the financial requirement, only to "fail" at the ILR stage because of a poor jobs market?

Best again.

[MPH80]

I think you're working from outdated information.

The process - assuming you're aiming for a fiancee visa is:

Fiancee visa -> convert to spouse visa after 6 months -> extend spouse visa after 33 months -> apply for ILR after further 36 months -> (assuming law doesn't change ...) apply immediately for citizenship if wanted.

You have to show the funds at the initial point, the conversion and the extension - but not at ILR.

Oh - and you need to make sure that your fiancee passes an english test BEFORE you apply. The rules changed a couple of years ago to mandate that.

And yes - people do fall into all sorts of traps with these income rules.

M.

[ukthesis]

Thanks once more.

I tried to find the fiancee visa on the UK Border Agency website. However, the only one I found on there was the Marriage visa. This enables her to come to the UK to marry me within 6 months of getting here. So there are two visas - the fiancee and the spouse (is this the marriage?) visa? Can you point me to them on the website?

So the fiancee visa exists/existed (as does the marriage visa) to get the woman into the UK in order to marry her sponsor here. You say the fiancee visa is converted to the spouse visa after 6 month - of what? You mean 6 months after marriage?

So the spouse visa can be extended after 33 months.

But my interpretation is that the Temporary Leave to Remain (TLR) procedure kicks in for 30 months, and needs to be applied for within a short period of the actual marriage, while still using the marriage visa, measured in months. Near the end of this 30 months term, the ILR is applied for. This eventually leads to citizenship, after a further 30 months. The process takes 5 years or 60 months.

So there are differences here from my understanding. Can you clarify please?

[MPH80]

I, personally, wouldn't try to grasp the whole system - but grasp it visa by visa with half an eye on the next step.

E.g. get the fiancee visa - then start worrying in detail about FLR(M) - same again and then start worry about SET(M).

Partly because the rules change.

Focus on appendix FM and appendix FM-SE of the rules. Read them as many times as necessary.

[ukthesis]

Can I ask this?

You say that:

You have to show the funds at the initial point, the conversion and the extension - but not at ILR.

Are these the stages below, where the financial requirement comes into play?

The marriage visa application stage, the visa for temporary leave to remain stage (30 months), and the visa for indefinite leave to remain stage (30 months)?

So there are these three points where the requirement is activated. Once she passes the 5 years point, of course, she can claim UK state benefits, etc.

And is the financial requirement the same at each stage?

Best, Dave

[Wanderer]

Can I ask this?

You say that:

You have to show the funds at the initial point, the conversion and the extension - but not at ILR.

Are these the stages below, where the financial requirement comes into play?

The marriage visa application stage, the visa for temporary leave to remain stage (30 months), and the visa for indefinite leave to remain stage (30 months)?

So there are these three points where the requirement is activated. Once she passes the 5 years point, of course, she can claim UK state benefits, etc.

And is the financial requirement the same at each stage?

Best, Dave

ILR is after 5 years, not 30 months. Basically the FLR spouse visa is extended another 30 months, so it's 5 years on FLR (temporary leave) then apply for ILR (permanent leave) and naturalise at the same time if wanted.

Not sure about the financial tests at each stage, pretty sure there's none at ILR, and the FLR visas subject to the same rule?

[ukthesis]

Cheers.

I have a copy of the document dated December 2013, titled "Immigration Directorate Instructions" annex FM Section FM 1.7: Financial Requirement. Does this clarify the requirements at each stage (on cash savings)?

[SoHopeful]

Yes - these are the rules to follow for the subsequent FLR applications, unless ofcourse things change and updated documents are published.

[ukthesis]

Cheers. So can you advise, based on this, whether the requirement drops after the Temporary Leave to Remain stage? I would imagine that the requirement at the Marriage Visa and the TLR stages would be the same, or nearly so. Since they are normally close in time to each other (ie need to marry within 6 months of coming to the UK on the Marriage visa). After issuance of a TRL visa, there is then a long wait until it comes to the ILR stage. So the financial requirement for the ILR visa may (or may not) be lower.

BTW - I've spoken to someone today who works in a local college. Immigration status and access to home college courses is closely linked. They strongly advise I hire an immigration lawyer to process the immigration paperwork since the regulations are continually evolving and things like access to their college courses can alter with changes in immigration rules.

I know the advice that most of this stuff can be done without a lawyer, but I do think that for the "layman" there are evolving complications to immigration law that aren't necessarily easily available and picked up by the man in the street but can cause real practical problems down the line.

[MPH80]

I stand corrected - it would appear that you DO have to pass the financial test at the ILR stage:

RILRP.1.1. The requirements to be met for indefinite leave to remain as a partner are that-
(a) the applicant and their partner must be in the UK;
(b) the applicant must have made a valid application for indefinite leave to remain as a
partner;
(c) the applicant must not fall for refusal under any of the grounds in Section S-ILR:
Suitability-indefinite leave to remain;
(d) the applicant must meet all of the requirements of Section E-LTRP:
Eligibility for leave to remain as a partner (but in applying paragraph ELTRP.
3.1.(b)(ii) delete the words "2.5 times"); and
(e) the applicant must meet all of the requirements of Section E-ILRP:
Eligibility for indefinite leave to remain as a partner.

The result of D is to apply the financial tests - but to remove the requirement to have 2.5 times the income shortfall. In other words - if you are relying on savings then - at FLR(M) you need to show £62,500 - but at SET(M) (ILR) you have to show just £34,600.

[ukthesis]

So at ILR we only need to show through income and/or savings, £27,900 less. Nice one!

I have no plans to go on a spending spree after we meet the TLR stage, where the financial requirement is "fully blown," but the fact that we don't need to show as much for the final ILR stage enables us to loosen those purse strings.

[MPH80]

Keep in mind there's a high court challenge to the financial rules.

We do not know what the outcome of that will be. It's possible the rules will be relaxed - or they might go more strict.

M.

[ukthesis]

I read about them. The basic distinction is between the right to a family life enshrined in EU law and the UK government's determination to avoid paying state benefits to immigrants. How do you think the case will go?

[MPH80]

Impossible to say beyond:

Whoever loses will appeal to the supreme court
Whoever loses that will probably try to appeal to the European courts

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

[ukthesis]

I don't know if it's still used, but a couple of years ago, they were advertising the Surinder Singh route to UK citizenship. This completely circumvented the financial requirement rules. Whether the UK government has tried to stop this route to UK entry, I don't know.

[Amber]

I'm afraid it has, see Amendment to EEA Regulation from 1/01/2014 Singh diluted (click).

[ukthesis]

What a surprise, if they stopped this route. It seems that the UK government will try to move heaven and earth to stop people marrying here. The rules are already weighed against marriages; they say that up to 50 percent of people don't have the income or savings to marry a non EEA citizen and bring her to live here. So this is another nail in the coffin. There are already safeguards to prevent most cases of abuse of the marriage system. I just think the way the UK govt is hunting to stop "loopholes" like this is disproportionate to the problem and this is a purely political move.