Uk Spouse visa refused is EEA our best option

[r4b]

Hi, Im from Northern Ireland (uk) passport holder. Just yesterday my Thai wife was refused a settlement visa for UK on the grounds of adequate maintenance. I am disabled an on D.L.A and although i am exempt from financial obligations i had to meet the maintenance.I meet this easy however They have said that my other related benefits can not be used for this ie. ESA, Child tax credit, housing benefit, child benefit. I have custody of my 2 children from previous relationship. I was unaware that the ukba now are saying these benefits can not be used. If the website had been updated we would never have applied this route. And i doubt they will return my money for there website errors.
However i am now wondering what is my best option to have my wife here with us?. A member of another site kindly pointed me to this site and here i am asking for all advise on what we can do next.. I am aware that i can renounce my British Citizenship and apply for Irish passport due to the fact i was born on the island of ireland as my family where also but im a little reserved about this as im not sure if this would work although im willing to do it. I would prefer dual citizenship but im not so sure this is allowed for EEAFP. If we are to go with the EEA FP visa i would like to ask is it vital i renounce my british citizenship?. Also due to my wife being refused for a settlement visa and also once for her to visit will this be held against us in our application when she is to go to same British Embassy in Bangkok and apply for an EEA FP visa with me her husband down now as Irish. Also the fact i am on benefits will this go against her application and can they refuse her an EEFP visa because of this.
THANKS IN ADVANCE.

[chaoclive]

Any possibility of moving to the South for some period of time and then returning to N. Ireland under Surinder Singh? This is a big step if you have children and are disabled, but the only other option would probably be renunciation of your British citizenship and then relying on your Irish citizenship.

The renunciation thing is a little difficult (it takes the Home Office a while to process the application) and some people have said it might be viewed as 'abuse' (although I think this would be a little unfair). I have just renounced my British citizenship and will attempt to take my civil partner to N. I. using an EEAFP in July. Not sure how it will turn out.

There is a guy on here who said that some of his clients have successfully relied on their Irish citizenship (after renunciation of British citizenship) to get an EEAFP although it takes time.

[Graham Weifang]

Hi, Im from Northern Ireland (uk) passport holder. Just yesterday my Thai wife was refused a settlement visa for UK on the grounds of adequate maintenance. I am disabled an on D.L.A and although i am exempt from financial obligations i had to meet the maintenance.I meet this easy however They have said that my other related benefits can not be used for this ie. ESA, Child tax credit, housing benefit, child benefit. I have custody of my 2 children from previous relationship. I was unaware that the ukba now are saying these benefits can not be used. If the website had been updated we would never have applied this route. And i doubt they will return my money for there website errors.
However i am now wondering what is my best option to have my wife here with us?. A member of another site kindly pointed me to this site and here i am asking for all advise on what we can do next.. I am aware that i can renounce my British Citizenship and apply for Irish passport due to the fact i was born on the island of ireland as my family where also but im a little reserved about this as im not sure if this would work although im willing to do it. I would prefer dual citizenship but im not so sure this is allowed for EEAFP. If we are to go with the EEA FP visa i would like to ask is it vital i renounce my british citizenship?. Also due to my wife being refused for a settlement visa and also once for her to visit will this be held against us in our application when she is to go to same British Embassy in Bangkok and apply for an EEA FP visa with me her husband down now as Irish. Also the fact i am on benefits will this go against her application and can they refuse her an EEFP visa because of this.
THANKS IN ADVANCE.

.
Hello r4b,

In your case, I would have no hesitation in giving up UK status.

Continue the Irish route.

GW

[r4b]

hi, thanks for your reply i appreciate it. Yes have been doing alot of research online and me going to the south isnt really an option with being disabled and unable to work. id have to up route the children give up my house etc etc. I think i will renounce my British citizenship. Do you have any idea how long it takes to renounce.

[chaoclive]

It usually takes about 3 months...sometimes more for some people.

The lawyer on here is called: El Patron, he might provide some insight if he sees your question.

[r4b]

It usually takes about 3 months...sometimes more for some people.

The lawyer on here is called: El Patron, he might provide some insight if he sees your question.

Thanks i guess 3months isnt that long to wait we could get the eeafp. Sorry do you no if with me on Disability and related benefits will this effect or can this effect an decision the eco can make. ie Refusal, i dont think i could handle another refusal on the grounds i am disabled and claiming benefits..

[chaoclive]

I'm not sure, but I think that someone else will try to help you soon.

I'd guess that you will still need to be exercising treaty rights and, therefore, you would need to be working, self-employed, a student with health insurance or self-sufficient (but this won't be possible if you're on benefits). Would you be able to get a part-time job? I think 12 hours per week would be enough? I don't know how this would affect your benefits?

I'd recommend that you read up on the McCarthy case (wherein a NI woman who was married to a non-EEA national was refused via the EEA route).

I think you might benefit from a little legal advice. What about contacting the Law Centre NI? See here for details: http://www.lawcentreni.org/about-us/contact-us.html. They only call you back to NI landlines or UK mobile numbers. Call them. They might be able to help or to refer you to someone else.

Hope you get sorted out.
C

PS: The renunciation could be longer. There isn't a specific timeframe for this!

[r4b]

Thanks yeah spoke to them yesterday they are to call again on tuesday. i guess its not to hard to sign up for a course at the local tech and then that would be student if the benefits are a problem. thank for your help.

[popodgen]

HI GUYS WE ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION AS YOU,MY WIFE IS FROM NORTHERN IRELAND (BRITISH CITIZ) WE HAVE CHILDREN TOGETHER,
MY WIFE IS TRYING TO GET A IRISH PASSPORT WITHOUT GIVING UP HER BRITISH CITIZENSHIP TO APPLY FOR EEAFP
DNT KNOW IF IT IS GONNA WORK
HOPE THE BEST FOR U GUYS

[r4b]

HI GUYS WE ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION AS YOU,MY WIFE IS FROM NORTHERN IRELAND (BRITISH CITIZ) WE HAVE CHILDREN TOGETHER,
MY WIFE IS TRYING TO GET A IRISH PASSPORT WITHOUT GIVING UP HER BRITISH CITIZENSHIP TO APPLY FOR EEAFP
DNT KNOW IF IT IS GONNA WORK
HOPE THE BEST FOR U GUYS

Hi, hope your well. From what i am hearing from on here and from other sites is that i will have to renounce (give up) my british citizenship as dual british and irish doesnt allow for this. i hope you and your wife can find a solution

[popodgen]

I hope so,gd luck for everyone

[LunarGirl]

I'm dual British/Irish or was - I renounced BC recently. It took 2 months. I've just applied for EEA2 for my husband.

[r4b]

I'm dual British/Irish or was - I renounced BC recently. It took 2 months. I've just applied for EEA2 for my husband.

Hi, great thank you for you reply. i have been on another site and been receiving alot of feedback (abuse)saying that if i renounce my BC i leave myself to comply with the same regulations as if i would be from any other country in the EEA. However i tend to disagree as Northern Ireland and the Republic as i am lead to believe and think to be a Special Case under the redrafted terms of the good friday agreement. Meaning basically anyone born in the island of ireland has a right to choose where they reside on the island of Ireland and which passport/nationality they choose. They are saying if i choose to renounce i am not entitled to my disability related benefits from the uk government here in the north. Which i disagree because as far as i am aware someone from the south can claim here and vise versa no problem. GOODLUCK WITH YOUR APPLICATION

[chaoclive]

Claiming benefits is not the issue here. If you're not: working/self-employed/studying/self-sufficient then you're not able to benefit from the Directive so being Irish isn't the issue. If you apply under the Directive but are not in one of the categories above you will fail. I guess that's what people mean.

I think people on benefits might benefit from some legal advice, e.g. by calling the Law Centre NI (if you're based in NI). I guess they would understand the situation. It won't be as straightforward as if the EEA person was not on benefits. You might be subject to extra checks? I'm not sure.

I have also renounced my British citizenship and will be applying for EEA2 in the future (I'm not in the UK yet). Not sure how it will turn out at that time because I'm not going to be going back in July or thereabouts.

NI is quite a special place but remember that the loss of the rights of a dual national to apply under the EEA directive was an dual British/Irish citizen (McCarthy) so it's likely that we will be under scrutiny too. In reality, the Good Friday Agreement means very little...it was more symbolic than anything else, it doesn't seem to provide any kind of legal rights.

Lunargirl: It would be great to hear how things go for you in the EEA2 application. Are you living in Northern Ireland too? Or somewhere else? Ddi you apply for EEA1 to 'prove' the Home Office accept you as exercising your treaty rights. Sorry for all the questions but it seems that you might be the most advanced in terms of process at the moment.

[r4b]

Claiming benefits is not the issue here. If you're not: working/self-employed/studying/self-sufficient then you're not able to benefit from the Directive so being Irish isn't the issue. If you apply under the Directive but are not in one of the categories above you will fail. I guess that's what people mean.

I think people on benefits might benefit from some legal advice, e.g. by calling the Law Centre NI (if you're based in NI). I guess they would understand the situation. It won't be as straightforward as if the EEA person was not on benefits. You might be subject to extra checks? I'm not sure.

I have also renounced my British citizenship and will be applying for EEA2 in the future (I'm not in the UK yet). Not sure how it will turn out at that time because I'm not going to be going back in July or thereabouts.

NI is quite a special place but remember that the loss of the rights of a dual national to apply under the EEA directive was an dual British/Irish citizen (McCarthy) so it's likely that we will be under scrutiny too. In reality, the Good Friday Agreement means very little...it was more symbolic than anything else, it doesn't seem to provide any kind of legal rights.

Lunargirl: It would be great to hear how things go for you in the EEA2 application. Are you living in Northern Ireland too? Or somewhere else? Ddi you apply for EEA1 to 'prove' the Home Office accept you as exercising your treaty rights. Sorry for all the questions but it seems that you might be the most advanced in terms of process at the moment.

hI, Is an EEA2 different form the eeafp. I never heard of this one. Yes i spoke to the law centre and they are due to call me on tuesday again. i also will speak to someone from Madden and Finucane solicitors who i have to call on Monday.
I found this in one of the appendix. Maybe its relevant to my case maybe not.
20. Being in receipt of these benefits may affect a person’s right of residence because the
person cannot generally be said to be self-sufficient. However, EEA nationals with a right to
reside are able to claim other benefits such as child benefit. Also, EEA nationals exercising
treaty rights as workers, self-employed, job seekers and workers who are involuntarily
unemployed or inactive due to illness or injury are able to claim certain income-related benefits
without their right of residence being affected.

[chaoclive]

Have you worked in the past? If so, the paragraph that you found might be of use!

Please make sure you prepare for the solicitors meeting. You will be paying for it and, therefore, you have to make sure you are clear about what you want to ask them. Please remind them of the McCarthy case (see here: http://www.lawcentreni.org/Publications ... hy2012.pdf)

You should also make a clear list of all the benefits that you get and of periods when you worked in the UK. Then you should try to link when you left work on to when you started to claim benefits.

Some other people might have more tips.

Hope it all goes well for you.
C

[r4b]

Have you worked in the past? If so, the paragraph that you found might be of use!

Please make sure you prepare for the solicitors meeting. You will be paying for it and, therefore, you have to make sure you are clear about what you want to ask them. Please remind them of the McCarthy case (see here: http://www.lawcentreni.org/Publications ... hy2012.pdf)

You should also make a clear list of all the benefits that you get and of periods when you worked in the UK. Then you should try to link when you left work on to when you started to claim benefits.

Some other people might have more tips.

Hope it all goes well for you.
C

Yes i read a little of the McCarthy case before but she never stepped foot in ireland and didnt renounce her BC that im aware of. When i spoke to the lawcentre ni she said thinks i could get legal aid. Although she couldnt say for sure. On the other site they have been saying renouncing my BC and taking Irish is a disgrace and how i am avoiding the law blah blah and if i do this i will loose my residency in Northern Ireland and have to start again. Not entitled to any benefits, legal aid, housing, all the stuff i get for free because im disabled. Im not sure though if they are just anti Irish because we can take this option and they maybe cant.

[r4b]

If some sent me private im unable to read due to being a new member. If its important info ask me for my email and i will post it on the board. Thanks

[chaoclive]

I'm sure it partly boils down to jealously but hey....who cares.

How could you possibly lose residence in NI! That's just stupid hehe.

I have a document that might be of some use for you but I wouldn't want you to put your email address on the board. You will get spammed!

Go to Google and search for this: "MATTHEW THATTIL Appellant and. THE ENTRY CLEARANCE OFFICER FOR INDIA AT CHENNAI." Read the document that comes up (or the link to Facebook).

Also: don't forget that your wife would be eligible for Irish citizenship after 3 years of living with you in NI. See here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... riage.html. She will be eligible from NI or ROI.

Which other forum/board do you visit? Please let me know so I can have a look too. We should share resources.

[r4b]

I'm sure it partly boils down to jealously but hey....who cares.

How could you possibly lose residence in NI! That's just stupid hehe.

I have a document that might be of some use for you but I wouldn't want you to put your email address on the board. You will get spammed!

Go to Google and search for this: "MATTHEW THATTIL Appellant and. THE ENTRY CLEARANCE OFFICER FOR INDIA AT CHENNAI." Read the document that comes up (or the link to Facebook).

Also: don't forget that your wife would be eligible for Irish citizenship after 3 years of living with you in NI. See here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... riage.html. She will be eligible from NI or ROI.

Which other forum/board do you visit? Please let me know so I can have a look too. We should share resources.

Thanks i had a quick glance and will go and read it now. Makes me feel better to read what i have though, cheers

[chaoclive]

Which other forum/board do you visit? Please let me know so I can have a look too.

[jms-wex]

Go to Google and search for this: "MATTHEW THATTIL Appellant and. THE ENTRY CLEARANCE OFFICER FOR INDIA AT CHENNAI." Read the document that comes up (or the link to Facebook).

I had a look at this, also at

https://tribunals-servicegovuk-producti ... 052013.doc

It does have relevance to working and claiming benefit.

The part that really stumps me, though, is that there is an acceptance throughout the process and appeal that a the non-British citizenship of a dual UK/Irish sponsor can be relied on. The rule disallowing dual British/other-EEA nationals from choosing nationality began on 16 October 2012. The initial ECO refusal was December 2012 and upheld appeal was January 2014.

The judgement explicitly mentions the sponsor is dual British/Irish.

This seems completely contrary to the "if British/British only" rule. Can anyone tell me what I am missing?

[r4b]

Which other forum/board do you visit? Please let me know so I can have a look too.

Thai visa website. its as much use as a wet blanket on a winters morning. Lots of chat/internet trolls but no actual facts.

[r4b]

Just something i found on this site in reference to my own case, I am thinking now if i could be classed as under worker


If a person is unable to continue employment due to involuntary redundancy, they do not lose the right to reside if they had been working for at least a year before redundancy and register as unemployed. They can be unemployed for more than six months if they can show they are actively seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged. A person does not cease to be a worker owing to a temporary inability to work as a result of accident or illness.

THIS IS THE LINK.
http://www.lawfirmuk.net/euro_e.html

[LunarGirl]

Sorry just catching up on this now...

I am a bit further into the process and it really is one battle at a time (just ignore the criticism, everyone has their own set of circumstances and until the haters can walk a day in your shoes they can never know why or how it is that one comes to the very difficult decision to renounce citizenship)...some of you may have read my thread on trying to get the correct COA and a National Insurance number for my American husband. Because of our bad luck at the early stages of the EEA2 process I'm not all that optimistic for a successful outcome. We're arming ourselves with all we can for a possible appeal.

I was born in England, both my parents are Irish and I have lived half my life in the Republic of Ireland and later moved to settle permanently in Northern Ireland and married and I have two amazing children. For this reason I cannot leave NI. My husband came from the US without a Family Permit and he didn't get a Code 1A either so we just applied for the EEA2/Residence Card. It's early days and I will certainly update the board with our progress. Until I know more about our outcome, I'd prefer to keep the details of our application under the radar. Thanks guys and best of luck to everyone else too.