RE-Applying for Student Visa

dayja · Post by **dayja** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:24 am

Hi, I am new to the forum.

I need your help. I have a friend (US) who was turned down for a student visa, appealed and was denied, asked for a reconsideration and received her denial letter today. Though she has the option to appeal to the High Court, I don't know if she wants to do this. But we want know how soon can she re-apply. She is being told by her solicator to wait (apply before classes start in Sept 08). She got a second opinion and was told she can do so as soon as she has all of her paperwork together.

So what would be better?

Thank you for your responce.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:40 am

Why was her application refused? What does the reasons for refusal letter say?

dayja · Post by **dayja** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:47 am

Avjones, thanks for writing back

Her appeal was dismissed on the grounds of intention. From what I understand she leased a flat during her 6 months while in London. But her lease was for a year, with a six month break clause. She wanted to stay longer, applied for an extention, (she did while in London, which she later finds out she should not have) but was denied. She came back to the States, stayed awhile and then went back to London. And of course immgration had a problem with her trying to come back so soon. They searched her bags and found her flat agreement she used to show where she would stay on her first vist. But they let her stay for 3 days, though her passport was stamped with a cross though the date, I think that's what it is. They also finger printed and took pictures. She said she felt like a criminal.

Anyway, she came back and applied for a student visa after she got accepted to a Bible Institute. (While she was in London she applied to some organiztion called NARIC to see what her qualifications would be in the UK before applying for school)

All of her paper work for a student visa was in order The only thing she did not give was to show her intentions of coming back. She gave them all requested documents and the solicitor never suggested her to do so. And they still denied her. So she appealed and she says at the hearing the only issue Home Office had was intention. The IJ in his decision said she met all the requirements, but the flat showed she did not have any intention of going back after the course was over. (Though she has an excellent immigration history. She has been travelling in and out of the UK since '04.)

Her soliciator suggested to submit for reconsideration and the Senior Immigration Judge said "It was for the judge to decide what weight to give to factors such as the appellant taking a lease on a flat. Such matters do not by themselves indicate that the appellant does not intend to leave but they are factors to be taken into account in the light of the evidence as a whole."

Should she wait or just re-apply now?

Thanks

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:54 am

If she reapplies, the HO is just going to throw her intentions back in her face.
If she appealed, I think she might have a better chance with the judge, if she explains that it wasn't that she didnt plan on honoring the conditions of the visa but unfortunately she got stuck in a lease she should have broken and didn't see why she couldn't visit London and use the flat she paid for and anticipate staying if she was approved with another visa.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:00 am

SYH wrote:If she reapplies, the HO is just going to throw her intentions back in her face.
If she appealed, I think she might have a better chance with the judge, if she explains that it wasn't that she didnt plan on honoring the conditions of the visa but unfortunately she got stuck in a lease she should have broken and didn't see why she couldn't visit London and use the flat she paid for and anticipate staying if she was approved with another visa.

Can you appeal against a student visa? I thought you couldn't but I'm prepared to be 100% wrong!

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:04 am

Wanderer wrote:
SYH wrote:If she reapplies, the HO is just going to throw her intentions back in her face.
If she appealed, I think she might have a better chance with the judge, if she explains that it wasn't that she didnt plan on honoring the conditions of the visa but unfortunately she got stuck in a lease she should have broken and didn't see why she couldn't visit London and use the flat she paid for and anticipate staying if she was approved with another visa.
Can you appeal against a student visa? I thought you couldn't but I'm prepared to be 100% wrong!

He wrote on the opening remark, that they can appeal to the High Court

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:37 am

SYH wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
SYH wrote:If she reapplies, the HO is just going to throw her intentions back in her face.
If she appealed, I think she might have a better chance with the judge, if she explains that it wasn't that she didnt plan on honoring the conditions of the visa but unfortunately she got stuck in a lease she should have broken and didn't see why she couldn't visit London and use the flat she paid for and anticipate staying if she was approved with another visa.
Can you appeal against a student visa? I thought you couldn't but I'm prepared to be 100% wrong!
He wrote on the opening remark, that they can appeal to the High Court

Now I've had to go and check now!

I was half right - you can't appeal against a visa denial for a student visa of less than six months....

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:00 am

Wanderer wrote:
Now I've had to go and check now!

I was half right - you can't appeal against a visa denial for a student visa of less than six months....

My sage brother, good catch. Obviously the OP has to clarify the situation better. As usual, when people post for others and provide info second hand it goes awry. Hopefully the OP will get back to us with more precise info.

dayja · Post by **dayja** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:42 pm

Hi everyone, thanks for your answers. The student visa was for one year. So she can appeal and she now has the option to go to the High Court about this situation. But she wants to know if it would be better to do that or re-apply. I think someone felt it would be better to go before the judge and fight it out

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:45 pm

dayja wrote:Hi everyone, thanks for your answers. The student visa was for one year.

So and what about the appeal question?

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:30 pm

It sounds as though she has already appealed and lost.

Her solicitor has seen the papers, so probably knows best. But I am inclined to think that unless the material facts have changed then she is likely to be refused again, so she would be better off waiting until something is different. Perhaps getting rid of the flat would be a start.

Victoria

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:15 pm

VictoriaS wrote:It sounds as though she has already appealed and lost.

Her solicitor has seen the papers, so probably knows best. But I am inclined to think that unless the material facts have changed then she is likely to be refused again, so she would be better off waiting until something is different. Perhaps getting rid of the flat would be a start.

Victoria

If you are paid up on the flat, I'd love a place to stay

dayja · Post by **dayja** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:56 pm

Thanks Victoria

That is what I believe she will do before she applies again. It seem to me that once you know what the Home Offices' issues are, then you correct them and HOPEFUL your next time around it will be accepted.

dayja · Post by **dayja** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:13 am

I have a question. Since my friend has a US passport, though it has marks from the time she was denied, yet let in for three days and a denial for the student visa. Could she still come over say to just vist for few days. Since it is my understanding for US citizens staying less than 6 months do not need a visitor visa.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:14 pm

I think that she will have a hard time, and that it is likely that immigration will not believe her intention to return home.

Victoria

dayja · Post by **dayja** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:08 pm

Hi Victoria,

Even if some time has passed. It's going on a year since the last time she was there. But then again, she just went through the whole appeal and reconsideration whirlwind. So I guess it would be best for her to go back on some sort of visa, maybe visitor? What do you think?

Thanks Vicky, much appreciated

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:40 pm

If she has evidence that she will definitely return home, then maybe.

Victoria

dayja · Post by **dayja** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:14 pm

Victoria,

Could that evidence be like a letter from her job, statements of bills or even showing registation for a class that she would attend once back in the States? Just a thought.

Again, thanks

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:12 pm

I'd say all of the above, and still no guarantees.

Victoria

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:53 am

Sorry for the delay in replying, we were on holiday for a week in Cornwall.

The High Court option isn't another appeal. It's an application for Statutory Review, saying that the AIT was wrong in law not to allow reconsideration.

dayja · Post by **dayja** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:46 pm

Thanks avjones:

What I think is amazing is there is no UK law that states one can not rent a flat. Yet as the SIJ stated, if the judge wants to use that as a reason for intention of not returing to the US, HE CAN. IMO it's subjective opinion and has nothing to do with law. And it is being use everyday in people's cases. The immigration judge acknowledged, in the appeal, that my friend satisfied all the requirements for a student visa. The only problem was intention. Even though she has an execellent immigration history and stated on her application she would return to the US and repeated the same to the ECO at the British Consulate, NY, that still did not matter. It all boils down to whether they believe you or not.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:28 pm

There is nothing in law to stop someone renting a flat, no.

But your friend didn't, in the opinion of the ECO and the Immigration Judge, meet *all* the criteria for the student visa. Specifically, she didn't meet the requirement that she intended to return, in their opinion.

In all areas of law, decision-makers decide matters of both fact and law. In the Crown Courts, for more serious criminal trials, the judge decides on the law and the jury decide the facts.

In the Asylum & Immigration Tribunal, the Immigration Judge decides both. And he decided, unfortunately for your friend, that he didn't think she intended to return. There was no issue of the rental being illegal, rather it went towards determining her intention.

dayja · Post by **dayja** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:17 pm

Can anyone, who has a US passport, be willing to share your experiance, if you were denied a student visa or a visa in another catagory for the UK, yet you went back to England using your passport to visit. Did you have any problems with immigrations at the airport?

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RE-Applying for Student Visa

RE-Applying for Student Visa