When naturalised, do they revoke your ILTR?

[ismangil]

When naturalised as British Citizen, 1 year after achieving ILTR, do they then revoke the ILR on your non-British passport?

[SYH]

well you don't need it anymore so it isn't revoked as it is one step up?
Why do you ask such a question

[maveli62]

Yes. It is clearly stated in one of the leaflet you get when you go for the ceremony. It also says if you want to use your old nationality passport for travel purpose then you should apply for Right to Abode as the PR is invalidated. This will cost you another £135.00. So better get the British passport.

[SYH]

Yes. It is clearly stated in one of the leaflet you get when you go for the ceremony. It also says if you want to use your old nationality passport for travel purpose then you should apply for Right to Abode as the PR is invalidated. This will cost you another £135.00. So better get the British passport.

Quite right, I was thinking he was getting a passport. But I see his brain train now. He wants to travel and how can he get back in if the ILR is nullified.

[maveli62]

And the guys in immigration are getting strict on this. a collegue of mine used his Indian passport to go to US from UK and came back on the Indian passport and was quizzed by the guys for an hour. He was warned not to repeat it and either get british passport or get roa.

[ismangil]

Thank you for the clear replies. It is still hypothetical at the moment because I am still a few years from having to make the decision anyway.

Thanks!

[Christophe]

In practice, they don't revoke it in the sense that there is no endorsement put in the passport to say that it no longer applies, but technically it is invalid since a British citizen can't have "leave to remain".

You shouldn't really use the ILR to re-enter the UK. However, again in practice, people do (usually because they want to travel after they have been naturalised but before they are able to get a British passport): not to be recommended - although it is unlikely that there would be problems at the point of entry (in the overall scheme of things, recently naturalised British citizens entering the country using their old ILR are not high on the list of priorities at passport control!). In any case, as a British citizen, the person could not be ultimately denied entry... Although, as noted in oneo of the posts above, there could be problems and if so there would be delays.

[Dawie]

Two points:

1) If you are in possession of a British passport and a foreign passport you can no longer have a certificate of entitlement for right of abode placed in your foreign passport. The rule is stated here:

#
From 21 December 2006 you will not qualify for a certificate of entitlement to be placed in your foreign passport or travel document if you already hold either
#

*
a United Kingdom passport which describes you as a British citizen or as a British subject with right of abode; or
*
a UK identity card which describes you as a British citizen or as a British subject with right of abode

2) After I became a naturalised British citizen, I had to urgently travel and did not have enough time to get my British passport. Consequently I used my South African passport together with the ILR sticker in it and managed to reenter the UK without any problems whatsoever. So I suspect that the immigration officer does not have any record of the fact that you have become a British citizen and that your ILR is no longer valid.

[ismangil]

In practice, they don't revoke it in the sense that there is no endorsement put in the passport to say that it no longer applies, but technically it is invalid since a British citizen can't have "leave to remain".

Ah, I see now. I thought they put like a big sticker or stamp over the ILR!

[Christophe]

If you are in possession of a British passport and a foreign passport you can no longer have a certificate of entitlement for right of abode placed in your foreign passport. The rule is stated here:

That is correct. As things stand now, though, I think you can still have a right of abode certificate placed in your non-British passport if you don't have a British passport, even if you are entitled to one. This may well change in the future, of course, and if (?when) identity cards become compulsory for everyone, then the issue won't arise anyway, I guess: if that happens, then the only people who will be entitled to right of abode certificates will be those non-British citizens who have the right of abode.

[Christophe]

Ah, I see now. I thought they put like a big sticker or stamp over the ILR!

No, some countries do that (or something like it), but the UK doesn't, not hitherto anyway.

[ismangil]

2) After I became a naturalised British citizen, I had to urgently travel and did not have enough time to get my British passport.

So to confirm Christophe, when you did apply for the British Passport, do they ask for your foreign passport as well and if they did, are there any new endorsements there?

Thanks!

[Christophe]

So to confirm Christophe, when you did apply for the British Passport, do they ask for your foreign passport as well and if they did, are there any new endorsements there?

Thanks!

Yes, they do ask to see any other passports you may hold (whether you're a naturalised British citizen or not makes no difference to that), but as far as I know they don't make any new endorsements in the non-British passport. In the future, of course, they might cancel a right of abode certificate, if there is one.

[Dawie]

So to confirm Christophe, when you did apply for the British Passport, do they ask for your foreign passport as well and if they did, are there any new endorsements there?

Thanks!

Yes, they do ask to see any other passports you may hold (whether you're a naturalised British citizen or not makes no difference to that), but as far as I know they don't make any new endorsements in the non-British passport.

When I applied for my British passport they did not endorse my South African passport in any way.

[Administrator]

.

2) After I became a naturalised British citizen, I had to urgently travel and did not have enough time to get my British passport. Consequently I used my South African passport together with the ILR sticker in it and managed to reenter the UK without any problems whatsoever. So I suspect that the immigration officer does not have any record of the fact that you have become a British citizen and that your ILR is no longer valid.

This may have worked in the past ... and, it seems, took a bit of luck.

I would not go making any plans on it today or into the future. International passport data exchange is becoming very sophisticated and at the speed of the internet.

Another consideration, since I get the impression ismangil might be of Indian origin:

India or not, countries that do not allow dual citizenships mean that when you naturalize, you are automatically a citizen of only one country. In this case, Britain.

Attempting to use the other passport is technically fraud, as you are claiming citizenship with a country that you are no longer a citizen of. In fact, you may be required by the law of the country issuing the passport to either turn it in or to have it formally annulled/canceled. Definitely read the fine print on your passport agreement & otherwise research that point.


Again, in the past folks might have been a bit more lax about it. It is not the sort of thing I would make plans around.

The other comment about the National Identity Card is also quite important. From 2008 and after, the UK Identity Card is going to start becoming a very important part of daily life for immigrants into Britain and then all British citizens.

People are not yet considering how this will impact many aspects of their lives and travel.


ismangil, while you have some answers today, very definitely keep watching for developments. The "game" will change radically over the next few years, and thus the "answers" will, also.

the Admin

[ismangil]

Another consideration, since I get the impression ismangil might be of Indian origin:

I am not, but I get your point.

ismangil, while you have some answers today, very definitely keep watching for developments. The "game" will change radically over the next few years, and thus the "answers" will, also.

the Admin

Agreed, it's such dizzying pace this last year. I got entangled on the 4-to-5 year thing, LITUK test for ILR, massive fee increase...

Finally able to sent off ILR last Monday, let's see how it goes.

[Marco 72]

And the guys in immigration are getting strict on this. a collegue of mine used his Indian passport to go to US from UK and came back on the Indian passport and was quizzed by the guys for an hour. He was warned not to repeat it and either get british passport or get roa.

This was most likely due to the fact that his Indian passport was no longer a valid document (since he was no longer an Indian citizen).

[SYH]

And the guys in immigration are getting strict on this. a collegue of mine used his Indian passport to go to US from UK and came back on the Indian passport and was quizzed by the guys for an hour. He was warned not to repeat it and either get british passport or get roa.

This was most likely due to the fact that his Indian passport was no longer a valid document (since he was no longer an Indian citizen).

They how did he travel on it if it wasn't valid?

[badmaash]

Reference: IPS627/7

3 August 2007

Dear Mr badmaash

Thank you for your e-mail of 23 July about the National Identity Scheme.

ID cards would be a means of proving an individual’s identity, not their immigration status. Indefinite Leave to Remain, as with any immigration status, would have to be recorded in an immigration document such as a passport.

In future, foreign nationals would be issued with a Biometric Identification Document (BID) in place of a stamp in their passport. It is intended that, when ID cards are introduced, they would also be issued with an ID card along with their BID.

Foreign nationals would not be eligible for an ID card that is valid as a travel document as they are only available to UK citizens. So they would still have to retain their original passport and immigration documents.

More information about ID cards is also available on http://www.ips.gov.uk.

I am grateful for the time you have taken to write in.

Yours faithfully,


On behalf of the Identity and Passport Service

[badmaash]

i dont think there is anyway they could find out to be honest as it is alloweed for you to show your IND which is in a old passport with your new one

unless they bring the same scheme which they have ROB that you have to transfer your your cert to the new passport this could be likely as we all know the british government is here to rob its own nationals and make things easier for europeans in their own land (these guys must be laughing at the brits)

a few tax credits cheques could sort out the fee

[maveli62]

And the guys in immigration are getting strict on this. a collegue of mine used his Indian passport to go to US from UK and came back on the Indian passport and was quizzed by the guys for an hour. He was warned not to repeat it and either get british passport or get roa.

This was most likely due to the fact that his Indian passport was no longer a valid document (since he was no longer an Indian citizen).

Nope. His Indian passport was valid and now the immigration officer can see in their system whether you are a citizen or not (according to the immigration officer in Manchester, looks like they can now see your tax details). The reason why my friend went with Indian passport was that he had to stay in US for more than 3 months and had a 10 yr B1 on his Indian passport.

[ismangil]

Nope. His Indian passport was valid and now the immigration officer can see in their system whether you are a citizen or not (according to the immigration officer in Manchester, looks like they can now see your tax details). The reason why my friend went with Indian passport was that he had to stay in US for more than 3 months and had a 10 yr B1 on his Indian passport.

Of course, having an RoA on the Indian passport is a dead giveaway to Indian Consulate...

[maveli62]

Of course, having an RoA on the Indian passport is a dead giveaway to Indian Consulate...

Good point. never thought about that.

[Christophe]

Nope. His Indian passport was valid and now the immigration officer can see in their system whether you are a citizen or not (according to the immigration officer in Manchester, looks like they can now see your tax details). The reason why my friend went with Indian passport was that he had to stay in US for more than 3 months and had a 10 yr B1 on his Indian passport.

Of course, having an RoA on the Indian passport is a dead giveaway to Indian Consulate...

Yes, if they bother to check either the holder's previous grounds for stay in the UK or the section of the Act under which the right of abode certificate was granted (which the certificate is annotated to show). They might well check these things.

There would be Indian citizens with the right of abode in the UK who are not British citizens. (all would have been born in 1982 or earlier.)

[Christophe]

Then how did he travel on it if it wasn't valid?

You're right: the passport probably would have become invalid when the holder gained Indian citizenship simply by operation of Indian law, since from that moment the person would no longer have been an Indian citizen and hence was no longer entitled to hold an Indian passport; the fact that the passport might not have been physically "cancelled" in some way doesn't alter that fact.

However, if its invalidity didn't show up on any of the systems that were consulted when he was travelling, then I guess it would be assumed by everyone to be valid. It seems as if it might have shown up on the IND/BIA system when he came to re-enter the UK, however.