UK entry clearance visa confusion.

[steveandnaomi]

My wife has a visa in her passport. When we aplied for it initially we were expecting a marraige visa with restrictions.

However this is the visa we recieved.

The wording on the visa is:

Type: VISA SETTLEMENT TO JOIN/ACC PARTNER - ********

Obsrv: Indefinite leave to enter the UK.

Valid from 05/04/07 Valid until 05/10/07

Everywhere we have shown the visa ( to register at GP etc ) have told us the visa expires in October.

Because of this, we made an appointment with the home office to get the visa extended only to be told we do not need an extension.

We are worried because the guy at the home office, who must see visa's everyday was not to sure about this. If he was not sure what will the immagration officers at any port of entry think and maybe not let my wife back in the country after a family visit.

I hope someone can put our minds to rest and offer some experience or thoughts on this matter.

Thanks in advance.

[jazbaati99]

I will let some senior members comment further but can you please let me know

1) How long have you been married?
2) What is the expiry date of your wife's passport?

My guess is that you have been married for more than four years and are issued with an ILE visa. The expiry date of the visa most probably is the expiry date of your passport. If I am not mistaken, you are suppose to enter UK within these dates. Once you enter UK this visa in effect becomes and ILR i.e. an indefinite leave with no expiry date. In my opinion you are fine, this visa will not expire.

Hope it helps

[mads]

Check the expiry date on your wife's passport, the ILE is most probably dated till the end of the current passport life. As far as I know, ILE has no limits on it.

[steveandnaomi]

Thanks for showing an interest,

We've been married for 2 months.

The passport expires May 2011.

The reason we are concerned is because we dont think our situation really qualified us for an ILR. We previously had a 6 month multi entry visit visa, after our 4th application. We were following the guidance from the home office for newly married couples and found the guidance conflicted with the visa we already had. ie to gain an FLR now you have to take a test ( which she hase'nt done )

Anyway, we have just been searching in vain on the home office web site for a meaning of the fraises used on the visa.

'Visa settlement to join/acc....' - does this mean this is a settlement visa.

'Indefinate leave to enter.....' - is this the same as an ILR.

'Valid from 05/04/07 Valid until : 05/10/07' - is this the validity/expiry time of the visa.

I think after the last 2 years of trawling through the immagration system in the UK and after we have put our own minds to rest on this subject we should be able help others and share our experience on this forum.

[mads]

I really do not know what to advise but to speak to the home office. ILE (when applying from outside the UK) is the same as ILR (when applying within UK).

If you have been married for less than 4 years, YOu get LLR (limited leave to remain) which is valid for two years. After that you would have to do apply for the ILR.

By the sound of it the issueing department have made a mistake with the date. My advise is to get some advise on this before the visa runs out. Rather be safe than sorry.

Maybe one of the senior members will be along to give you some guidance on this.

[Dawie]

It's quite simple, the expiry date is the latest date at which the initial entry to the UK can be made.

[yankeegirl]

It's quite simple, the expiry date is the latest date at which the initial entry to the UK can be made.

I don't think that there is a date in which you must enter the UK by on ILE; if there was I would certainly expect it to be longer than six months.

It looks to me that it's an error made by whoever issued the visa. As others have said, if the spousal visa was applied for, LLRwould have been issued for two years with an expiry date of 05/04/09. If the OP's spouse was eligible for ILE (which she wasn't as they have been married for less than 4 years and the wife has not taken the Life in the UK test) I think the expiry date would be the same as the passport expiration date.

Where was your wife's visa issued? It seems as though they have made a mistake, and you should try to get it sorted as soon as you can.

[SYH]

It's quite simple, the expiry date is the latest date at which the initial entry to the UK can be made.

Actually that's what I thought. I think its about time they put a date on when something needs to be used by to claim the status. Too many times people keep asking when do I have to enter. Well there it is.
Not saying that that is what it is but that was my thoughts when I saw it.

[steveandnaomi]

It is the weekend at the moment and we do intend to contact the home office on Monday. We do appreciate the comments as they all give us a better understanding of our situation.

The visa was issued in Nigeria after a 2 year long relationship ( as mentioned previously we had many applications refused ) with the UK High Comission there. At the visa issue, the representative that interviewed us actually recognised my wifes passport from previous applications and also remembered seeing a few emails I sent the High Comission in the past. I dont know if any mistake was made but the representative was happy that our request for my wifes relocation to the UK was genuine.

We are just not happy that we have been put in this position because there is nothing worse than uncertainty in knowing where you stand when you walk up to any port of entry with an ambiguous passport. At least you know where you stand when you extend your stay with a spouse visa.

Anyway we'll post as soon as we find anything out directly from the Home Office.

[Christophe]

The wording is confusing but the situation ought not to be. As others have said above, indefinite leave to enter is the term used when the leave is granted outside the UK, and it means the same thing as indefinite leave to remain. The "valid until" date is the last date on which it would have been possible to enter the UK for the first time using this visa (i.e. six months after the "valid from" date, which is standard for pre-entry clearances of this type). The "valid until" date is now irrelevant, since the visa holder has made her entry to the UK using this visa. The next time she enters the UK she will be admitted as a returning resident, assuming she fulfils the criteria for that (which she will after a short family visit).

The GP's surgery is incorrect in assuming that the leave to remain in the UK expires in October.

Now, whether your situation entitled your wife to indefinite leave is a different matter. However, GP surgeries and the like are not going to be in a position to know about that.

Obviously, it makes sense for you to try to get clarification generally from the Home Office.

[JAJ]

Now, whether your situation entitled your wife to indefinite leave is a different matter. However, GP surgeries and the like are not going to be in a position to know about that.

Obviously, it makes sense for you to try to get clarification generally from the Home Office.

I would point out that if ILE was granted based on an good-faith application, then it is valid even if the statutory requirements were not met at the time.

This is the case for naturalisation and I doubt the courts would take a different view with respect to ILE/ILR.

[Christophe]

Now, whether your situation entitled your wife to indefinite leave is a different matter. However, GP surgeries and the like are not going to be in a position to know about that.

Obviously, it makes sense for you to try to get clarification generally from the Home Office.

I would point out that if ILE was granted based on an good-faith application, then it is valid even if the statutory requirements were not met at the time.

This is the case for naturalisation and I doubt the courts would take a different view with respect to ILE/ILR.

I expect that's right. By "clarification", I really meant a simple explanation of the terms of the entry that would be readily understood by people such as GPs' receptionists (no offence meant to them as a group - but they are an example of people who are unlikely to be au fait with immigration law and regulation). Would the Home Office provide such a thing in a letter? Or is there anywhere on the BIA website that would make it clearer that the holder of such a visa who has entered the UK under it can stay here without time limit?

[steveandnaomi]

I would point out that if ILE was granted based on an good-faith application, then it is valid even if the statutory requirements were not met at the time.

Jaj: We are being drawn to the same conclusion. ie we have the visa, a document that is required to be produced to prove identity and standing. There is no-one that would want to take that away. And I dont think any High Commission can make a mistake. They know what their doing, they are beaurocrats and they follow the rules.

Christophe: This is something we would dearly like to find out. 'An explanation of terms' is something we really need to find. Discussing this with friends, a letter of explanation is something that did come up. And is something that we will look into this week.

On a side note, we really appretiate people taking an active interest in this. It helps us to understand and your elequence in actually describing what we are thinking will help us describe our situation to the officials.

[Christophe]

Well, here is a glossary that was produced by the IND (Immigration and Nationality Directorate - the predecessor of the BIA (Border and Immigration Agency)) of the Home Office. It appears to be part of a section of their website relating to asylum seekers or refugees, but that doesn't affect its validity. It explains "ILE" very clearly as "Indefinite leave to enter (settlement granted upon arrival)".

The "Scotland is the place" website, which one would think is some sort of commercial or tourist website but which is actually put out by the Scottish excecutive (see this page, under the heading "Use of this site") has a glossary of terms that similarly describes "Leave to enter or remain" as "permission to enter the UK or to remain here ... [it] can be granted for a limited period ('limited leave') or permanently ('indefinite leave')."

There are numerous websites of immigration agencies and the like with similar glossaries, but I can't find a simple description of "indefinite leave to enter" on the BIA website (by "simple" I mean one that could be used to explain the meaning to people like the doctor's receptionist!). The abbreviation is described but not explained in the BIA list of abbreviations. If someone could locate an explanation on the BIA pages, that might be helpful.

But when the visa was granted, did you get any accompanying bumph from the High Commission explaining it?

[SYH]

Well, here is a glossary that was produced by the IND (Immigration and Nationality Directorate - the predecessor of the BIA (Border and Immigration Agency)) of the Home Office. It appears to be part of a section of their website relating to asylum seekers or refugees, but that doesn't affect its validity. It explains "ILE" very clearly as "Indefinite leave to enter (settlement granted upon arrival)".

The "Scotland is the place" website, which one would think is some sort of commercial or tourist website but which is actually put out by the Scottish excecutive (see this page, under the heading "Use of this site") has a glossary of terms that similarly describes "Leave to enter or remain" as "permission to enter the UK or to remain here ... [it] can be granted for a limited period ('limited leave') or permanently ('indefinite leave')."

There are numerous websites of immigration agencies and the like with similar glossaries, but I can't find a simple description of "indefinite leave to enter" on the BIA website (by "simple" I mean one that could be used to explain the meaning to people like the doctor's receptionist!). The abbreviation is described but not explained in the BIA list of abbreviations. If someone could locate an explanation on the BIA pages, that might be helpful.

But when the visa was granted, did you get any accompanying bumph from the High Commission explaining it?

Umm I think that is simple enough.
settlement granted upon arrival
so the dates indicated are those upon which you must arrive to be granted settlement
I really don't see the GP's giving you a hard time on it, if they want to call the HO, invite them to do so. I mean when I went into an office where I wasn't registered the woman asked me how are you taking care of this visit and I simply stated I have a valid resident permit so I am covered and this is the end of the matter. You register and that's that. They have no business determining its validity thats for the IO at the airport to do.

[steveandnaomi]

Well, talking to the home office this morning they did confirm over the phone all the assumptions and details you have discussed above.

We do have a settlement visa.

An ILE is the same thing as an ILR. An ILE is applied for outside the UK. An ILR is applied for within the UK.

The valid from / until date is the time period by which you must leave your home country and arrive in the UK. Which then effectively turns your ILE into an ILR.

The lady at the Home Office was very informative and also mentioned that they get many calls ref the actual meaning of our visa.

A phone number was given for an Evidence and Enquiry office, for officials to ring for confirmation of meaning.

Also an email contact was given to request a written note from the Home Office to put with the passport as a confirmation of meaning.

As for the GP's practice they contacted their Primary Care Counter Fraud office in London and were told (incorectly) by this office that the visa was about to expire and only temporary emergency care could be given. We got in touch with this Primary Care Counter Fraud office and spoke to the person dealing with our case and were told they had never seen a visa like ours before and presumed it was a fraud. Anyway, I managed to 'invite them' to contact the Home Office to correct their assumption.

We are not bitter or offensive at all. We understand that these offices must see alot of fraudulant attempts. It is a process that we are just going to have to live with.

[SYH]

As for the GP's practice they contacted their Primary Care Counter Fraud office in London and were told (incorectly) by this office that the visa was about to expire and only temporary emergency care could be given. We got in touch with this Primary Care Counter Fraud office and spoke to the person dealing with our case and were told they had never seen a visa like ours before and presumed it was a fraud. Anyway, I managed to 'invite them' to contact the Home Office to correct their assumption.

They what? Contacted the Fraud Unit. Incredible. Did they tell you they were going to contact the Fraud Unit?

And why would they presume such a thing because they are so ignorant. Then they should inform themselves and contact the appropriate agency if they are so concerned about fraud. Very sloppy behaviour on their part. Not professional whatsoever.

[mads]

That's really good news on the visa. I have a settlement visa and I mine was just a beginning and an end date (end date being end of my passport). YOu Very lucky to have got the ILE/ILR!! You have saved some money there

[harmony]

Well, talking to the home office this morning they did confirm over the phone all the assumptions and details you have discussed above.

We do have a settlement visa.

An ILE is the same thing as an ILR. An ILE is applied for outside the UK. An ILR is applied for within the UK.

The valid from / until date is the time period by which you must leave your home country and arrive in the UK. Which then effectively turns your ILE into an ILR.

The lady at the Home Office was very informative and also mentioned that they get many calls ref the actual meaning of our visa.

A phone number was given for an Evidence and Enquiry office, for officials to ring for confirmation of meaning.

Also an email contact was given to request a written note from the Home Office to put with the passport as a confirmation of meaning.

hang on fellas wots going on ive just got my spouse visa and it says as i am married to a british national and applied 2.5 yrs after marriage.

Type: VISA SPOUSE/CP-SPOUSE /CP OF X. XXXXXX
VALID FROM X/XX/07- VALID UNTIL X/XX/09
Obsrv: No recourese to public funds

COMPARED TO

Type: VISA SETTLEMENT TO JOIN/ACC PARTNER - ********
Valid from 05/04/07 Valid until 05/10/07
Obsrv: Indefinite leave to enter the UK.

i thought all spouse visa was for 2 yrs and it is a uniformed visa for applicant married to UK citizen even if less than 4 yrs of marriage or partnership outside the UK territoty

was i given the wrong visa

thank you in advance for putting me through

[Dawie]

Since when are GP's surgeries checking people's passports and visas? I've never been asked by any hospital or GP to see my visa or passport (before I became a naturalised British citizen). Is this something new?

[avjones]

Since when are GP's surgeries checking people's passports and visas? I've never been asked by any hospital or GP to see my visa or passport (before I became a naturalised British citizen). Is this something new?

It's increasingly common.

[VictoriaS]

And it is those on fiance visas or spouses of EEA nationals who are the main victims of idiot doctors (and receptionists and practice managers) not knowing what they are doing, as when they see a visa valid for only 6 months they assume it is a visit visa and refuse to register them.

Victoria

[mym]

And it is those on fiance visas or spouses of EEA nationals who are the main victims of idiot doctors (and receptionists and practice managers) not knowing what they are doing, as when they see a visa valid for only 6 months they assume it is a visit visa and refuse to register them.

Victoria

Thanks for that tip Victoria. Useful for when Slava gets back from Moscow!

[Jeff Albright]

Steve, sorry for the confusion you have been put through.

I have noticed over many years living in this country that the knowledge of the immigration law among general public in the UK is very very limited. Even the officials of other government agencies cannot interpret it correctly. From there, we can explain many problems coming out of it, including the employment of illegal workers and other forms of abuse of the system. Despite numerous efforts made by the Home Office, leaflets and booklets sent, lectures, presentations and consultations given, there is still a major misunderstanding of many aspects of the immigration system. Many people find it too complex (the old 1971 Act) and this is why Byrne is currently trying to propose plans for making it more transparent and straightforward.

For example, the HR of my current employer only know that foreign nationals need Work Permits. They had no idea about HSMP until I explained it to them myself and the HSMP visa or FLR(IED) gives the same employment rights as the WP visa. They have no idea that they cannot employ people until the FLR(IED) was granted on the WP basis. There are currently visa nationals working with me who have not received even their WPs after completing their studies on student visas. They do not know anything about Discretionary Leave conditions, which I have, etcetera...

My only advice would be to read the rules by yourself, as the Internet is the best source of information. BIA's website is now very well organised and all the rules and policies are given there in every detail. Just print the relevant section out and take it to your GP Surgery to show them...

All the best for the future.

[judy7007]

I know that when my husband entered on ILE he had to enter the UK within 6 months of the issue of the visa and that the visa was stamped as valid for the life of the passport. We certainly had to show it to obtain NHS care in the first year we were here.