Visa required for my non-EU widowed mother for Ireland

[Ramayan]

Like many of you out there I regularly spend many hours at stretch reading through the posts learning about the EU Free Movement Directive 2004/38/EC and being immensely happy seeing other families coming together

My situation is:
1. I am a British Citizen (originally from India) working in the UK, who is married to a British Citizen and we have two young children
2. My widowed mother is an Indian citizen with 5 year UK family visitor visa expiring in 2016 who is presently here in UK (she comes once a year and spends a few months with us)
3. My mother is financially and emotionally dependent on us (we send her money regularly to support her in India) but my mother would not qualify for settlement in the UK under the present UK immigration rules
4. And as there are many jobs in Dublin in the domain I work in I am planning to take my wife and two children to Ireland with my mother and work there for six months, fulfill all the requirements like apply for my mother's Ireland residence card in Ireland and EEA family permit to enter UK from Ireland and hopefully return to the UK with the EEA Family permit

Me and my family will be eternally grateful if we could get some advise on the below queries please:
1. Since my mother has a 5 year UK family visitor visa can she travel to Dublin on her UK visitor visa as Ireland is part of Common Travel Area? Or she needs to apply for a visa from India under Directive 2004/38/EC as per this link http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Sh ... ber_States

2. If she can travel to Dublin on her UK visitor visa and within three months if I apply for her residence card in Ireland will there be any issues please?

3. When we come to the stage of applying for UK family permit for my mother from Ireland - if the family permit is refused then does someone know what is the time length for appeal process please?

If anyone has gone through a similar situation or is going through a similar situation then please please spend some of your valuable time and share your experience with me.

[Obie]

There is currently a test in the UK called "Centre of Life" test. Therefore you may be expected to uproot your whole family including children and integrate them in Ireland.

It is an unlawful test, but it is still in place.

[Ramayan]

Thank you Obie for the super quick response - I am aware of the Centre of life test and planning to take everyone with me to Ireland. Do you have any feedback to the three questions please?

[Wanderer]

Cannot travel to Eire on a UK visit visa.

[Ramayan]

Thank you Wanderer. If you know could you please kindly let me know what visa will be required for my mother and where do we need to apply the visa please?

[Wanderer]

Thank you Wanderer. If you know could you please kindly let me know what visa will be required for my mother and where do we need to apply the visa please?

Think it would be an Irish Tourist Visa and she'd apply from where she resides.

[Ramayan]

Lovely - thank you very much.

[el patron]

Thank you Wanderer. If you know could you please kindly let me know what visa will be required for my mother and where do we need to apply the visa please?

Think it would be an Irish Tourist Visa and she'd apply from where she resides.

If she has a UK visa she can travel with the UK citizen to Ireland without a visa for up to 3 months, after which to remain in Ireland the UK citizen must be exercising treaty rights in Ireland. The normal mode of travel is by ferry from GB or via the Irish land border as this normally avoids contact with either airline check-in procedures or Irish immigration at arrival airport.

Likewise the EEA family permit upon return to the UK is non-obligatory so a refusal is not the end of the world and return to the UK can be via the same method as arrival in Ireland

[ruthie]

As your mom is an Indian national, she can benefit from the visa waiver program which will be valid untill 2016, but I would suggest you don't run the risk of going through the customs and explain her purpose of travelling at border control. Just go from Northern Ireland, it is legal in every way. Once you start working, you can apply EU1 for her.

[Ramayan]

Thank you both el patron and ruthie.

Ruthie - do you know if my mother applies from India to Irish embassy in India to accompany myself in Ireland under the Directive 2004/38/EC then would there be any issues please?

The reason for asking is I would like to find work first in Ireland and also her six months stay in UK is coming close in this visit.

[Ramayan]

Also by the way the the Visa Waiver Programme is being replaced by a new British Irish Visa Scheme from autumn 2014 which is even better for people who have visitor visa for UK as under the old Programme one had to go to UK first and only then they can go to Ireland but with the new scheme one who holds a UK visitor visa or Irish visitor visa can go directly to Ireland.

"""""Visa Waiver Programme: A new holiday and other short-stay Visa Waiver Programme has been set up for countries whose nationals currently require a visa to visit Ireland. This Programme which started on 1 July 2011 allows nationals of countries such as India, China and the Russian Federation, who have a short-term UK visa to come to Ireland without the need for a separate Irish visa. The Programme will end on 31 October 2016.

From autumn 2014, under a new British Irish Visa Scheme, visitors from China and India will be able to travel freely within the Common Travel Area, (that is, Ireland and the UK, including Northern Ireland), using either an Irish or UK visa. The Scheme will operate through a reciprocal visa arrangement, whereby Ireland and the UK recognise short-stay visas issued by the other for travel to their jurisdiction. The British Irish Visa Scheme will replace the Irish Visa Waiver Programme."""""

[ruthie]

Thank you both el patron and ruthie.

Ruthie - do you know if my mother applies from India to Irish embassy in India to accompany myself in Ireland under the Directive 2004/38/EC then would there be any issues please?

The reason for asking is I would like to find work first in Ireland and also her six months stay in UK is coming close in this visit.

Hi Ramayan,

I would say not to try apply for an EEA visa from India for your mom, the chance of getting refused could be much higher than applying for an EU1 within Ireland. Plus I don't really see why you need this, just come from northern ireland or through visa waiver program once you are settled with a job, that's perfectly legal. You can even come together with her at the beginning if you are confident with getting a job offer within 3 months.

Good luck.

[Ramayan]

Got your point ruthie. Have a couple of further important questions if you could please kindly help if you know or anyone else knows.

Presently my mother is in UK and her six months stay in this visitor visit will be up around Jan 2015. Lets say I go to Ireland with her in Oct 2014 via Northern Ireland and will find work and will apply for EU1 with all the necessary documents.

(Question 1) My fear is then at that point could Irish Immigration refuse stating that my mother applied for EU1 while entering Ireland on UK Visitor visa (which is allowed under the waiver programme I know) and she should have instead applied for entry into Ireland from India under Directive 2004/38/EC?

(Question 2) Lets say Irish Immigration grant her EU1 around April 2015. And after that when I apply for EEA Family Permit to return back to UK - could the UK Immigration refuse stating that she should have returned back to India in Jan 2015 as on a visitor visa maximum period allowed is 180 days per visit?

Please let me know if I have not explained my questions clearly and I will have a coffee and have another go : )

[ruthie]

(Question 1) My fear is then at that point could Irish Immigration refuse stating that my mother applied for EU1 while entering Ireland on UK Visitor visa (which is allowed under the waiver programme I know) and she should have instead applied for entry into Ireland from India under Directive 2004/38/EC?

This won't be an issue. An EEA entry visa is not a condition for EU1. Please refer to Metock case. It doesn't matter which visa she uses to enter Ireland. Just to prove she is your mom, she is financially dependent on you, you get a job in Ireland. That's all that matters.

(Question 2) Lets say Irish Immigration grant her EU1 around April 2015. And after that when I apply for EEA Family Permit to return back to UK - could the UK Immigration refuse stating that she should have returned back to India in Jan 2015 as on a visitor visa maximum period allowed is 180 days per visit?

I don't get this question Ramayan. She won't stay in UK for more than 180 days in this case right? Basically they can't refuse the EEA family permit only because your mom still has a visit visa. But if she applied for this visit visa without your sponsorship at that time, you might want to show why she becomes dependent on you now.

[Ramayan]

Many thanks ruthie for the answers. Please let me explain my second question with more details.

She arrived on the uk visitor visa in UK in July this year and if I go to Ireland in Oct this year and then stay there with her till we get the residence card which I imagine might be around April 2015 at the earliest. Now as per the UK immigration system she should have returned back to India in Jan 2015 as that is when the 6 months are up for this visit but on the UK immigration it will still show that she is in the UK.

So my worry is when we apply for EEA family permit to the UK embassy in Ireland could the UK embassy refuse on the basis that now she is illegal to enter UK as she has overstayed on her trip to UK in July 2014.

Please let me know if still unclear.

[ruthie]

Ok I see what you mean now. After you apply for EU1 visa for her in Ireland, she will receive letter from Ireland authority, i.e.INIS any way, and potentially can have her a 6 months stamp 4 after 4 weeks or so. That should be sufficient to show she is resident in Ireland at that time, not UK. Also, she can have tenancy agreement, PRTB letter, bank statements etc to show her residency outside UK. Above all, the UK immigration history, either positive or negative, in theory, should not impact the result of her EEA application, unless it poses a risk for public health or security of the host nation, which I assume is unlikely in your case. So you don't really need to worry about that.

[Ramayan]

Lovely thank you ruthie.

[sanky_001]

Dear Ramayan,

I hope you got my message.

Cheers!

[amisintier1]

Dear Ramayan,

I am in the same boat as you and need your your kind advice. is it possible to have a call with you. my number is

Regards,