Renouncing the British Citizen, but want to stay in UK

[takfly]

Subject:
Intending to stay permanently in the UK after renouncing the "Registration of British Citizen"

Dear Sir/Madam,

When I was an infant, my parents changed my immigration status
from the "Indifinite Leave to Remain in the UK (ILR)" with my
original nationality to the "Rregistration of British Citizen".
It was done without my consent because I was too young
to understand what the nationality is at that time.

Furthermore, as my original country does not allow the dual
nationalities, I need to chose either the original nationality
or the British Citizen.

I am over 18 years old now and intend to stay permanently
in the UK with "My original nationality".

Therefore, I have the following questions, please give me good advice.
(Note:I have already confirmed that my original country allow me
to back to its nationality.)

Questions:

1. Do I need to declare that "I chose the original nationality
and intend to stay in the UK" ?

2. How to prove that I have the right of avode in the UK
if I chose the original nationality?

3. If I need to re-regulate the right of avode in the UK
with the original nationality, what application form should I use?
(I have already read the Homeoffice web site "Apply to settle in the UK
(https://www.gov.uk/settle-in-the-uk/y)", but none of
"What's your situation" seems to meet my situation.)

Yours faithfully,

Tak

[secret.simon]

If you renounce your British citizenship, you will no longer have right of abode in the UK. Right of abode is something only a British citizen has (apart from some Commonwealth citizens who have held it continuously since before 1983).

Assuming that your original nationality is not based in the EU, you will of course also be renouncing EU citizenship and will lose the right to travel, live and work in the EEA.

If you are at university, you will pay overseas rates, which are 2-3 times that of a British citizen and would not be eligible for student loans to do your studies.

I am not sure if you can apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain after you renounce your British citizenship. It MAY be possible, but is likely to be highly improbable. And even if you have ILR, all of the above limitations will still apply to you (i.e.; no right of abode, no EU travel rights, overseas fees, no student fees)

I would therefore suggest that you think very carefully before taking this extreme step. If you feel that if you have a stronger loyalty to the country of your ancestry to the UK, it would be the right move for you. Just be aware of the implications.

[milan69]

Interesting topic..just want to follow this thread.

[stokbrig]

Why you would like to stay permanently in the UK with "your original nationality"?
What's the idea behind living in a country and hold another country's passport?
Just asking for curiosity!

[akhurshid]

Subject:

When I was an infant, my parents changed my immigration status
from the "Indifinite Leave to Remain in the UK (ILR)" with my
original nationality to the "Rregistration of British Citizen".

If you had ILR before you were registered as British citizen and still can prove that you held ILR then yes you can renounce your nationality and still stay in UK.
I have seem some ILR stamps with expiry date(even the sticker on passport) and if that is the case, you will have to renew that.
How you go about doing that is not something I can help though. But technically, if you had ILR before you became British means that ILR is still valid.

[secret.simon]

Not true.

ILR is incompatible with being a British citizen. Getting British citizenship extinguishes any ILR granted before becoming British. The ILR ceased with the completion of the registration/naturalisation ceremony.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... l#p1141242

Besides, is the OP absolutely certain that s/he had ILR before getting registered as an infant? That need not be the case with children getting registered.

[takfly]

Dear members,

Thank you for comments so far.

I'm absolutely certain that I had the ILR without the time limitation ( ILR means "indifinete leave", doesn't it?).
As I wrote in the first posting, my dad did the all process for becomeing the British Citizen without my consent.
( I was 10 or 11 years old then.)

The document I have shows " Certificate of registration" rather than " Cerfiticate of naturalization",
which may mean that the whole process was done without my consent.

I'm now feeling that I have a strong loyalty to my (our) native nationality which does not allow the dual nationality,
so how can I get back to the original status before getting the British citizen?

Best regards,

Tak

[secret.simon]

Registration is done for minors, naturalisation is done for adults. As you were a minor at the time, you would get a certificate of registration.

I believe, as this is the first time that I have come across such a request, that you need to apply for and get your original nationality. After that, you can submit a request for renunciation of nationality to the Home Office.

https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality/apply

Remember that once that is done, you will have no legal right to live in the UK and will need to leave the UK as soon as possible.

[takfly]

Thanks, Simon.

The point I'd like to know is, somehow, to get the ILR again with my native passport.
(If only, my dad did not do such a mistake..... I want to stay in th UK with my native nationalty.)

Regards

[secret.simon]

You can not reclaim ILR. It was lost when you were registered.

On renouncing your British citizenship, you will have no right of abode or leave to remain. You will need to apply for a Tier 4 study visa (at overseas rates), or a Tier 2 sponsored work visa or marry a British citizen and get a spousal visa. All of them will require atleast 5 years before you can get ILR again.

[akhurshid]

52. Ms Naik, in oral submissions, said that a British citizen who is also a citizen of
another country would, in practice, retain his or her indefinite leave to remain
“stamp” in the passport of that other country. Whilst that may be so (we express
no view), the continued physical presence of a stamp in a foreign passport cannot
be taken to govern the interpretation of the 1971 Act. We reiterate that it is
incoherent with the legislation to assume indefinite leave to remain can remain
extant, in the case of a person who is a British citizen, or that, without express
statutory provision, such leave automatically reappears on deprivation of that
citizenship.

As I understand that case, ILR didn't exist because of deception used to obtain it.
I would advise OP to contact HO to get it clarified.

[secret.simon]

52. Ms Naik, in oral submissions, said that a British citizen who is also a citizen of
another country would, in practice, retain his or her indefinite leave to remain
“stamp” in the passport of that other country. Whilst that may be so (we express
no view), the continued physical presence of a stamp in a foreign passport cannot
be taken to govern the interpretation of the 1971 Act. We reiterate that it is
incoherent with the legislation to assume indefinite leave to remain can remain
extant, in the case of a person who is a British citizen, or that, without express
statutory provision, such leave automatically reappears on deprivation of that
citizenship.

As I understand that case, ILR didn't exist because of deception used to obtain it.
I would advise OP to contact HO to get it clarified.

I have highlighted the judge's point of view in that paragraph, as opposed to counsel's. I think in this case, the law is uncertain/unclear. I doubt the HO would be compenent to advise, though they should certainly be more qualified than this forum. I have a feeling that the OP is going to generate an interesting test case.

[ban.s]

As Vinny pointed out in the earlier thread, refer to 46

46. As can be seen, the general provisions in the 1971 Act regarding leave to enter and remain are expressly stated not to apply where a person is a British citizen. We do not consider that it is compatible with the scheme of that Act to regard indefinite leave to remain (or any other sort of leave) as having some sort of vestigial existence, whilst the person concerned remains a British citizen. A person cannot be both a British citizen and concurrently subject to indefinite leave to remain. Upon becoming such a citizen, the appellant became a person to whom section 1(1) applied. As Mr Deller put it, the appellant’s indefinite leave to remain simply ceased to exist.

See below section 1(1) that has been quoted above:

Immigration Act 1971 - 1 General principles.

(1)All those who are in this Act expressed to have the right of abode in the United Kingdom shall be free to live in, and to come and go into and from, the United Kingdom without let or hindrance except such as may be required under and in accordance with this Act to enable their right to be established or as may be otherwise lawfully imposed on any person.

(2)Those not having that right may live, work and settle in the United Kingdom by permission and subject to such regulation and control of their entry into, stay in and departure from the United Kingdom as is imposed by this Act; and indefinite leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom shall, by virtue of this provision, be treated as having been given under this Act to those in the United Kingdom at its coming into force, if they are then settled there (and not exempt under this Act from the provisions relating to leave to enter or remain).

[secret.simon]

@Ban.s

The point is, Section 1(1) does not state whether ILR ceases to exist on the acquisition of British citizenship or whether it merely lies dormant and can be resumed.

The case referred to by Vinny atleast gives us some guidance, but there is no certainty, as this thread demonstrates. I doubt the Home Office can give any certainty. Only a change to the law, either by a test case (case law) or amendment (statute law), would resolve this specific question.

[takfly]

Dear All,

Thank you for your interesting conversations.
I originally did not think the topic I posted is so rare case.

Anyway, Mr. Simon wrote:
>On renouncing your British citizenship, you will have no right of abode or leave to remain. You will need to apply for a Tier 4 >study visa (at overseas rates), or a Tier 2 sponsored work visa or marry a British citizen and get a spousal visa. All of them will >require atleast 5 years before you can get ILR again.

On the Home Office web site, there are several routes to apply the ILR.
One of them is the application based on "Long residence".
As a British citizen, I have certainly lived here.
Does this application work if I renounce British citizenship?

Best regards,
Takfly

[secret.simon]

@takfly
Your question is not only rare, it is unheard of. You are the first person that I have come across on this forum to want to give up British citizenship. The only other person I know of who asked the question was going to get naturalised, but wanted to know if he could back out of UK citizenship at a later date (i.e. a theoretical future oriented question).

To the best of my knowledge, the specific question you have raised (giving up British citizenship and staying in the UK) has never been raised on these forums and I doubt anybody here would be able to give you a definitive response. The only thing you can do is to go ahead with it and let us know how it works out.

I suspect that the request that you have raised is so exceptional that even the Home Office may not have a procedure for it and, in extremis, may need to resort to an extra-ordinary grant of LOTR (Leave Outside The Rules). Your question is that rare, in my opinion.

What I do not doubt is that you will give up your EEA rights and your tuition fees, were you to continue your studies in the UK, will treble overnight. They are only available to British and EEA citizens and even ILR holders do not have access to them.

I have worked very hard to get my British citizenship and so can understand why your parents chose to register you as a minor (to save you the burden of the hard work in acquiring UK citizenship - see all the other threads in this forum). However, it is your decision to reverse that and I wish you the very best of luck in your endevours.

Please keep us posted about how your application goes. As the first person to attempt this, at the very least, we can learn from you.

[milan69]

Very good point Simon, but in that respect doesn't "takfly" has a point if he expects to be allowed to have ILR since he has has lived for most of his life in UK?

[secret.simon]

@Milan69,
I honestly can't say. That was the point of my post. The question is so unprecedented that I'm not aware of whether Long Residence or even private life procedures would apply. They are typically used by people who have lived here long enough to have a vested interest to work up to naturalisation. This is the reverse situation and so I would not want to comment on whether they are applicable or not.

The Secretary of State has significant discretion in granting leave (the leave outside the rules) and if they were so minded, such leave could be granted. But for a person to renounce allegiance to the country and yet want to stay in it!!! I think the Secretary of State would not only have many questions, s/he would also have concerns. I can imagine a case like this would need to be decided at very senior levels of the Home Office.

Disclaimer: I do not work for the Home Office or any other branch of the Civil Service. This is just my common sense logical approach to the question.

[takfly]

Dear all,

Thank you for replies.

My posting seems to have raised a lot of eyebrows.
It's still very helpful to give me your comments.

Regards,

Takfly

[Wanderer]

Wonder if it would be prudent to consider what would happen to a British-born British Citizen if they gave up their citizenship?

[takfly]

To the best of my knowledge, when renoucing British citizenship, you need to prove that you have any other nationality(ies).

Anyway, Mr./Ms. wanderer's reply reminds me of another case.

Another case I can imagine of:
She/he was born in the UK from foreign national parents.
Some countries allow dual nationalities (UK and her/his parents' native nationality) for those babies
upto the certain age (18 yers or 20 yers old, I guess), even if they basically do not allow dual nationality.

When those baies get to the designated age, they are ordered to give up one of the nationalities.

If they chose the foreign national when they feel strong loyalty to their parents' nationalty,
but want to stay in the UK for certain reasons, like education, job, whatever, can she/he get
the ILR on her/his foreign national passport?

[ouflak1]

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't British law require that an individual have permanent residence and/or citizenship of another country extant before they will allow someone to renounce? I believe they do that to prevent statelessness. The UK is a signatory to the Reduction of Statelessness convention. I'm pretty sure that in the spirit of that, they are going to atleast require that the OP, and even any native-born citizen to have that all settled before they allow renunciation.

So I guess one question for the OP is: do you already have a path setup for acquiring citizenship/PR to whatever country you feel more associated with? Or were you thinking you would be stateless? Because I don't think the UK will allow you to become stateless. And the UK can refuse to accept or acknowledge a renunciation, or even allow the procedure to go forward.

Also, what are your reasons for wanting to renounce? The UK will ask. They have a right to know. If it's tax purposes or legal reasons, you can probably forget about it happening. But if it because you have lived outside of the country most your life anyway, or will be doing so shortly and have no need, then they will likely let you do it. Is it something else altogether? Is is religious?

Another case I can imagine of:
She/he was born in the UK from foreign national parents.
Some countries allow dual nationalities (UK and her/his parents' native nationality) for those babies
upto the certain age (18 yers or 20 yers old, I guess), even if they basically do not allow dual nationality.

When those baies get to the designated age, they are ordered to give up one of the nationalities.

If they chose the foreign national when they feel strong loyalty to their parents' nationalty,
but want to stay in the UK for certain reasons, like education, job, whatever, can she/he get
the ILR on her/his foreign national passport?

The part that is missing from your example here is the renunciation. She must actually go through that process. And I don't know if the UK would allow it in this case. Simple loyalty to their parent's nationality, even if she has perhaps never even been to that country? Maybe. I wouldn't count on it, but let's assume they would, especially as there are young people realistically in this situation. There is still a fundamental difference here from your situation. That person was born in the UK. As long as that is the case, and they have never had any other kind of visa since relinquishing citizenship, that person is allowed to remain in the UK indefinitely. If they did have some kind of visa previous to becoming British and subsequently want to go on to get ILR, I'm not completely sure, but I don't see any technical reason why not. As long as they are sincerely making the UK their permanent home, I think it would be reasonable.

For your scenario, I just don't know that the UK would allow renunciation until that other citizenship is concretely sorted out. And perhaps even more so, that that is where you are going to be living for the rest of your days.

[fwd079]

Also, what are your reasons for wanting to renounce? The UK will ask. They have a right to know. If it's tax purposes or legal reasons, you can probably forget about it happening. But if it because you have lived outside of the country most your life anyway, or will be doing so shortly and have no need, then they will likely let you do it. Is it something else altogether? Is is religious?

Fair questions, but given such hue and cry about immigrants "taking over" they might be happy to "kick one out" without much hassle lol But I believe however, that takfly can show business activities in the country of their choice to just say sorry no UK cultural/economic life for me?

To takfly:

Question of gaining ILR after renunciation? That will be a great uphill task. Since ILR means you want to make UK your home country, since you do not want that, which will be bright as day with your renunciation, it is unlikely you will be granted one, unless you come back from the other country, live here again as per any Tiered/long resident lawfully and prove that you will not be leaving again.

ILR as far as I feel, is not a joke visa, its a promise you make UK your home country, just one step below Citizenship. Also, you cannot stay abroad for more than two years during whole of ILR period (no, there is no "reset" clock for that). So please think carefully before you decide, instead of giving into emotions. <-- Just my request.

[ouflak1]

... but given such hue and cry about immigrants "taking over" they might be happy to "kick one out" without much hassle lol

Well that's the thing though isn't it? He doesn't want to be kicked out. He wants to stay! I think the discussion must initially focus on whether the UK would even allow renunciation in the first place. I don't think they would.

But I believe however, that takfly can show business activities in the country of their choice to just say sorry no UK cultural/economic life for me?

I don't think this will be accepted as a valid reason to renunciate, and in any case, they will require more than just business ties. They want foreign citizenship.

[fwd079]

Exactly, but in this case the foreign citizenship isn't possible for the questioner without renunciation of British one (sorry dont know gender) so best they can do is OIC (in case of India) or OPC (In case of Pakistan) or whatever the "overseas-card" format the other country allows. The questioner must have their childhood passport which perhaps they could show and get that card?