Immigration through Descendancy .... information needed!

software606 · Post by **software606** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:03 am

Hello all

I have been studying in UK for the last 3 years for my Bachelors which i have just completed .... well thats about me

now about the case ...

My greatgrandfather served with the Royal Army in 1860s in the Indian Subcontinent ... He wasnt exactly in the Army because he was son of the ruler in one of the provinces in India ... so he helped the Army to free soldiers from some warlords in that era .... as recognition for his services he was given a certificate which allowed his descendants to take British Immigration upto 7 generations ... none of my family members took that path and now i wana take up this option as i have been in england for the last 3 years and am pretty much settled over here .... i do have the original document with me which is dated back to 1860s....

my question is would i be able to take up this option or not because its more than 140 years and I have searched alot on the internet but couldnt find anything related to my case .... help wud be really appreciated

cheers
sid

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:11 am

Sid,

I think you are trying to get information on Ancestral visa, via your Greatgrandfather.

Unfortunately, ancestral visa are only optained if one of your Grand parents where born in the UK, so Greatgrandfather is streching it a bit to far.

Sorry!

Why don't you try the Higher Skills program route?

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:26 am

Given the specialist nature of such an undertaking, you REALLY need professional (solicitor and probably barrister as well) advice on this.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:27 am

.... as recognition for his services he was given a certificate which allowed his descendants to take British Immigration upto 7 generations ...

Can you clarify that statement further and does it say so on the certificate? If so, this could well be an interesting case!

software606 · Post by **software606** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:31 am

HSMP is alrite but it does have its drawbacks as well as i wud have to be an MBA or atleast have a Masters degree to qualify for it. And honestly all the good universities require atleast 3 years of work experience (fulltime) to qualify for the programme. So the way i see it i can either go back work for 3 years or so and then come here for my Masters (which i really donot want

)
or i can work here for 3 years and then do my masters and i think the latter is the better option !

thanx for the reply and also should i talk to a lawyer before deciding against it or not ?

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:44 am

Docterror

Where have you ever seen a certificate, which allows descendants to take up British Immigration upto 7 generation's?

Please let the board know it may well help Sid!

software606 · Post by **software606** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:01 am

the english in the letter (which is authentic and pretty rusty because its so old) is quite hard to understand for me .... but all i could gather from it was that in regard for his special services in freeing 146 english prisoners from Afghanistan he asked that his descendents should be able to bear Law of Arms... which was granted .. hte letter is exactly dated 13th May 1846
and ther is another letter which tells abt his achievements during that period from various people (for example Sir Richmond Shakespere, Sir W. Macnaghten, etc)

software606 · Post by **software606** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:10 am

this the exact copy of the letter here:

To All and singular to whom these presents shall come Sir Charles Young Knight Garter Principal King of Arms and Francis Martin Esquire ( titles here) send Freeting. whereas (my gran dad) of Cashmere and Delhi in the East Indies and of George Street Manchester Square in the County of Middlesex, late Polictical Assistant at the Court at kabul hath represented unto The Most Noble Henry Hereditary Marshal of England That he is desirous of bearing Armorial Ensigns with Lawful authority and that same should be dult recorded in Her Majestys College of Arms. He therefore requested the favor of His Graces for Our Granting and assigning such as may be proper to be borne by him and his desvvesdants with due and proper differences according to the Law of Arms .... as the same are in the margin hereof more plainly depicted to be borne and used forever hereafter by him the said ..... and his descendants with due and proper differences........

i have got absolutely no clue what this means ^_^

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:26 am

software606, I have no clue to what the contents of the letter really mean as well, but nothing that I see makes be think that they will allow the taking up of a route to British Citizenship by later generations. I think that it may mean that had he taken up the citizenship, then the later generations will also be given the same. Whatever the letter may mean, IANAL, and it would be foolish not to look into what the certificate will entitle you to with the help of a barrister and a solicitor as mentioned by Amanda above.

Siggi, if I had indeed come across such a case before, I would have mentioned it. It is not everyday you hear about such scenarios but when it does present itself, I would be very interested in it and the outcome... and if the OP doesnot mind, even a copy of the certificate!

software606 · Post by **software606** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:37 am

thanx il probably check with a lawyer to confirm it .... and as there are several letters i cud only put here what i thought was relevent and lastly he was given the title of Knight o the Persian Order of the Lion and Sun by Queen Victoria at Buckingham Palace in 1850

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:43 am

This is a very interesting case indeed.

But I agree a Barrister and Solicitor will need to be consulted.

We will see if the HO are honourable or not and again personally I don't trust the HO.

Good luck Sid and I hope your certificate is honoured.

software606 · Post by **software606** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:51 am

thanx for the support i hope i can sort it out soon ... will get together with a lawyer soon lets c what happens (keeping fingers crossed) and once again thanx for the help

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:51 am

software606 wrote:this the exact copy of the letter here:

To All and singular to whom these presents shall come Sir Charles Young Knight Garter Principal King of Arms and Francis Martin Esquire ( titles here) send Freeting. whereas (my gran dad) of Cashmere and Delhi in the East Indies and of George Street Manchester Square in the County of Middlesex, late Polictical Assistant at the Court at kabul hath represented unto The Most Noble Henry Hereditary Marshal of England That he is desirous of bearing Armorial Ensigns with Lawful authority and that same should be dult recorded in Her Majestys College of Arms. He therefore requested the favor of His Graces for Our Granting and assigning such as may be proper to be borne by him and his desvvesdants with due and proper differences according to the Law of Arms .... as the same are in the margin hereof more plainly depicted to be borne and used forever hereafter by him the said ..... and his descendants with due and proper differences........

i have got absolutely no clue what this means ^_^

Where in this text do you see any reference to citizenship or seven generations?

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:01 am

Dawie, read the Sids first posting.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:21 pm

Hi - it's a very interesting case, no doubt about that. I've seen a couple of similar grants from Victorian times to Indians.

Be careful choosing your solicitor, though. It's a specialist area, and a general immigration solicitor might not be the best thing for you.

I do know of a firm (not me, I'm a barrister not a solicitor, so I'm not recommending myself!) who have dealt with legacy Indian nationality cases, if you want their details.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:36 pm

Siggi wrote:Dawie, read the Sids first posting.

I did. I still don't see any reference in the text to citizenship, immigration or seven generations.

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:55 pm

Dawie,

as recognition for his services he was given a certificate which allowed his descendants to take British Immigration upto 7 generations

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:14 pm

Siggi wrote:Dawie,

as recognition for his services he was given a certificate which allowed his descendants to take British Immigration upto 7 generations

That's all very well, but the text of the certificate, which he has kindly reproduced for us, does not mention this fact. So where is the proof?

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:22 pm

Dawie,
You are nit picking now, on something you can do nothing about.

Sid has a original certificate, which on the face of it sound like he may be entitled to some thing or other.
But that will be fight for a Barrister, we can help any further.

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:59 pm

Siggi wrote:Dawie,
You are nit picking now, on something you can do nothing about.

Sid has a original certificate, which on the face of it sound like he may be entitled to some thing or other.
But that will be fight for a Barrister, we can help any further.

Siggi, I think you are missing Dawie's point. The OP wrote what was on the letter to back up his claim that he is entitled to BC. But nowhere on the letter that he wrote out and posted does it mention anything to do with nationality. So that part of the text just doesn't seem to refer to anything related to his original question; thus it doesn't help him.

I personally don't see what the College of Arms or the Law of Arms has to do with nationality or BC....or generations! Obviusly the OP should seek legal advice, but if all he has it that which he reproduced for us, and nothing else, they might also be just as confused as we are in how it relates to the possibility of acquiring British Citizenship.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:02 pm

I'd say that Amanda is spot on. There is no one on this forum who can help with this, as we are not familiar with document nor specialists in this area of law.

Victoria

Post by **PaperPusher** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:30 pm

Hello

I can't resist but....

if I read that without knowing what software606 thought it meant, I would have taken it to mean that someone has asked for the right to have a coat of arms on a flag, they have have been allowed to get a flag with a coat of arms on, which will be then recorded in a book in a suitable design, which he can bear forever. and which his descendants can also bear!

Is this one of those interesting family stories that get jumbled up down the generations?

software606, which bit of the document do you think, or have you been told, relates to British nationality?

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:21 am

VictoriaS wrote:I'd say that Amanda is spot on. There is no one on this forum who can help with this, as we are not familiar with document nor specialists in this area of law.

Victoria

I didn't quite say that, but I did say he needed to be very careful to take specialist, not general immigration, advice.

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Immigration through Descendancy .... information needed!

Immigration through Descendancy .... information needed!