Effect of speed points by court on Naturalization Applicatio

[praveenkota]

Hi,

I got letter from police saying that camera caught me while speeding @41 at 30 limit. In the letter it's mentioned if i was driving & if i accept it then pay the fine and send the counterpart for points. I immediately accepted that I was driving and paid the penalty of 100£. Also, sent my counterpart on which they wrote these things :

Convicting Court Code:2775
Offense Code : SP30
Date of Offense : 15/04/2014
Points : 3

Only these things are mentioned and nothing else under Date of Conviction or under Fine.

As per the guidance of Naturalization Guide I didn't declare it on my Application Form as it mentioned that Speeding offenses won't be considered as convictions. But this morning when I went to NCS Hounslow to submit my application they said that my counterpart shows " Convicting Court Code:2775" and that means my case went to Court (even though I didn't get notice or got informed about it) .

They said I need to declare it because it went to court. Also, they said if i decide to apply it may be rejected if I don't wait for 3yrs and gave me few mins to decide whether i want to apply in next few mins.

So, finally in that short span I couldn't think much. I just declared it on my application and submitted it thinking that it shouldn't effect me as i didn't challenge those points or went to court.

My doubt :
Why is the court details mentioned in my counterpart?
Will it effect my application ?

Your answer would be much appreciated. Can't wait for another 6months to hear their decision and can't wait another 3-5yrs to apply again

[Amber]

Isn't 2775 Banbury Magistrates' Court?

Going over 50 is usually the cut off for a FPN as per ACPO guidance.

Ring Banbury and confirm.

if it is a conviction, I.e. You pleaded guilty, your application will be refused.

[praveenkota]

Hi Amber,

When you say Conviction, what do you mean ?

I got FPN from Thames Valley Fixed Penalty Unit..I paid the penalty fee right away and send my DL Counterpart for points endorsement.

Does it mean conviction and pleading guilty ?

As per NCS lady, the endorsement doesn't say Fixed Penalty and that means it went to court and got convicted etc. Is that true ?

[fwd079]

Correct me if I am wrong but FPN does not put points as far as I understand, I had a speeding FPN and paid fine and took course back in 2012, no points on my license whatsoever. However if you have points then you have to clear them before you can apply for Naturalisation.

[IraMil357]

Now I am confused guys...... I had a speeding offence in 2009, also on mobile camera, 37m/h on 30miles road.... Got a letter first asking to confirm that I was the driver, which I did , sent my licence off and explained that I had just turned off from a 40m road and did not notice the sign... Then, from what I remember, the letter came asking to pay £60, which I paid straight away... And received back my licence with 3 points and a convicting court code: 2568, date of conviction: conditional offer, offence code sp30, date of offence 17/05/2009 and points: 03. This came together with the court receipt of my payment and case number reference. What is this? Fpn? Or a sentence?..... I put it as an fpn on my application... What if I was wrong?..... Thanks...

[Petaltop]

Now I am confused guys...... I had a speeding offence in 2009, ...

And received back my licence with 3 points and a convicting court code: 2568, date of conviction: conditional offer, offence code sp30, date of offence 17/05/2009 and points: 03. This came together with the court receipt of my payment and case number reference. What is this? Fpn? Or a sentence?..... I put it as an fpn on my application... What if I was wrong?..... Thanks...

You had a Court Conviction, as indicated by your convicting court code.

[IraMil357]

But I have never been even invited to attend in the court?.... I have put it in the 3.7, but in sentence given I pit fpn - paid in full...? So was I wrong? And will my application be refused? What should I do now???.....

[IraMil357]

image.jpg (444.54 KiB) Viewed 5846 times

It clearly states on my licence: conditional offer, and the aa describes fpn as conditional offer... I have never disputed it, never went to court...

[wmazhar]

image.jpg

It clearly states on my licence: conditional offer, and the aa describes fpn as conditional offer... I have never disputed it, never went to court...

on your counter part does it says "FIXED PENALTY"?, and date of conviction?

I have counter part with convicting court code and I recently applied through NCS.

the lady ask did I went to court, and I said "NO" she says then its fine.

I think convincing court code is mentioned on all the counter parts if somebody has any road conviction.

[wmazhar]

A constable in uniform who has reason to believe that a person he finds is committing or has on that occasion committed a fixed penalty offence may give that person a fixed penalty notice (section 54(1) and (2) RTOA). If the offence is endorseable and the person is the holder of a licence, the constable can normally only give a fixed penalty notice to a person if:

a) he produces his licence and its counterpart;
b) the constable is satisfied that he would not be liable for disqualification if convicted of the offence (under the totting up procedure); and
c) he surrenders his licence and its counterpart for the penalty points to be added (section 54(3)).

If the offence is endorseable and the offender does not have his licence with him, the constable may give him a notice to produce it within 7 days together with a provisional fixed penalty. The offender must attend a police station with the provisional ticket and his licence. If he meets the requirements of section 54(3) in respect of the number of penalty points accrued, the provisional fixed penalty is confirmed as a full fixed penalty by the receiving officer.

Payment of the penalty before the end of the suspended enforcement period means that no proceedings may then be brought against any person in respect of the offence. In the case of an endorseable fixed penalty, the relevant person will endorse the licence and return it to the owner.

If the offender fails to produce his licence at the police station, he only commits the offence of failing to produce a licence under section 54(4) RTOA, if the officer gave the requirement to produce it under section 164 Road Traffic Act 1988.

If, before the expiry of the suspended enforcement period, the recipient of the notice requests a hearing, the case may be tried at court. However, if by the end of the suspended enforcement period he has not requested a hearing, and the fixed penalty charge has not been paid, a sum equal to the fixed penalty plus one-half of the amount of that penalty may be registered (section 71) for enforcement against the recipient as a fine (section 55(3)).

The registration certificate must be sent to the designated officer of the court for the relevant local justice area in which the defaulter appears to reside, who must then send a notice to the defaulter, who may respond within 21 days with a statutory declaration that he was not the person issued with the fixed penalty or that he has given the correct notice for a court hearing, or to offer payment.

[IraMil357]

image.jpg

It clearly states on my licence: conditional offer, and the aa describes fpn as conditional offer... I have never disputed it, never went to court...

on your counter part does it says "FIXED PENALTY"?, and date of conviction?

I have counter part with convicting court code and I recently applied through NCS.

the lady ask did I went to court, and I said "NO" she says then its fine.

I think convincing court code is mentioned on all the counter parts if somebody has any road conviction.

No, it does not say fixed penalty. It says conditional offer. As in the attached in my previous reply photo...

[wmazhar]

image.jpg

It clearly states on my licence: conditional offer, and the aa describes fpn as conditional offer... I have never disputed it, never went to court...

on your counter part does it says "FIXED PENALTY"?, and date of conviction?

I have counter part with convicting court code and I recently applied through NCS.

the lady ask did I went to court, and I said "NO" she says then its fine.

I think convincing court code is mentioned on all the counter parts if somebody has any road conviction.

No, it does not say fixed penalty. It says conditional offer. As in the attached in my previous reply photo...

To me you are safe, Court code I believe is the reference number of the court deals in that area, its not the conviction code or something.

But other senior members can contribute to this.

[fwd079]

You have conviction code SP30 which means points on your licence. I'd request waiting till points are cleared off your licence. Because with points approval is highly unlikely.

[omaral]

sp30 is not a ban and so far to my knowledge does not affect the application

[fwd079]

sp30 is not a ban and so far to my knowledge does not affect the application

I beg to differ.

[wmazhar]

Yea I believe omaral is right

many applications has been approved with points on licence. in simple words unless you go against the decision of Police, matter goes to court and judge decides that police was right and you are wrong and they penalized you and give you points. in that case you have to wait 3 years.

[fwd079]

Yea I believe fwd079 and omaral are right

We differ.

many applications has been approved with points on licence.

I beg to differ. See link in previous post please.

[wmazhar]

Yea I believe fwd079 and omaral are right

We differ.

many applications has been approved with points on licence.

I beg to differ. See link in previous post please.

Thats guy got the points from the court, and IraMil357 didn't go to court.

[fqvision]

Hi Mate,

need to wait at-least 12 months then apply

other wise ,read this

Dear Home Office,
I made an application for Naturalisation on 30/08/2013, which
appeared to have been received at Home Office on 02/09/2013. The
day my application was made/received, published policy criteria of
Home Office for naturalisation requirements was contained and
explained in Booklet AN of December 2012.

I had an isolated single conviction for minor offence of speeding
(S81&89 of Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984). I did not hide this
isolated single conviction in my application. To my horror, today I
received refusal letter from Home Office for said isolated single
conviction for minor offence of speeding.

Please have a look at ACTUAL wording of refusal letter of Home
Office against relevant portion of published policy criteria,
Booklet AN of December 2012, based on which I made my application
and Home Office was bound to decide my application:-

A. Home Office caseworker refusal wording:-
“You were convicted on 21 March 2011 at Sheriff Court Kilmarnock.
As your conviction is not one that we would normally disregard, nor
can we find grounds to disregard it exceptionally outside our
published policy, we cannot be satisfied that the good character
requirement is met. The application is refused.”

B. Below is Home Office Published Policy Criteria(page 15 of
Booklet AN, December 2012):-
“We will normally disregard a single conviction for a minor offence
resulting in a bind over, conditional discharge or relatively small
fine or compensation order, if a person is suitable for citizenship
in all other respects. By ‘minor offence’ we mean minor speeding
offence or other regulatory offences. Offences involving dishonesty
(e.g. theft), violence or sexual offences or drugs are not classed
as minor offences. Drink driving offences, driving while uninsured
or disqualified or driving while using a mobile phone are not minor
offences either.”

It is pertinent to point out that Home Office Caseworker did not
make mention of my offence.It may be appreciated that I was not
convicted for dishonesty (e.g. theft), violence or sexual offences
or drugs or Drink driving offences, driving while uninsured or
disqualified or driving while using a mobile phone.

It may also be appreciated that I had only single (one) conviction
(non-custodial) and it occurred within the first 2 years of the 3
(i.e. I have had no conviction within the last 12 months), there
are strong countervailing factors which suggest that I am of good
character in all other regards and the decision to refuse is
disproportionate and it was deemed to be an exceptional case and my
application should have been granted (exceptional grant under
section 10 subsection "b" of Chapter 18, Annex D of Nationality
Instructions) despite 3 years not lapsing since the date of
conviction.

Foregoing in view, is it not true that my application was refused
contrary to above quoted Home Office Published Policy
Criteria/instructions for Good Character Requirement ?

It is requested that Home Office, shall re-visit my application and
grant me naturalisation.

Yours faithfully,

Tariq Mehmood

hope this is best answer for you.

[wmazhar]

Hi fqvision

Please check this post from summer08

http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 68727.html

he has speeding offence, penalty and points.

and here his approval

http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... l#p1149468

since you received conviction from the court thats why you got refusal, if its FPN and dealt directly with police by paying the fine
than its fine, unless we have more than two FPNs in 12 months.

[fwd079]

Thats guy got the points from the court, and IraMil357 didn't go to court.

I beg to differ. You dont have to physically go to court, the scanned image also gave us a convicting court code, i.e. 2568.

But at the same time, there is a case here (click) a few years ago, which got approved. But do you want to risk it in 2015? I'd wait 12 months personally but then I am always "be on safe side" kind of guy.

[solospy]

I don't know what is the problem here. If you accepted that you were driving and you got penalty points and fine then there will be no rejection but if you challenged it and went to court and then you were proven guilty then definitely a rejection.

Simple!!!

[wmazhar]

Hi solospy

fwd079 is right we don't need to be physically present in the court to get court conviction.

however I disagree that convicting court code means you got conviction from the court, its difficult to differentiate if penalty is from court or just police just by looking at the counter part.

there might be some rules to find out

people will definitely get summons from the court if they convicting by court.
and also there are speeding rules to know when somebody will be convicted by court or not

Also attached is the fixed penalty issued by the police (not by court) but it also has convicting court code

[fwd079]

I don't know what is the problem here. If you accepted that you were driving and you got penalty points and fine then there will be no rejection but if you challenged it and went to court and then you were proven guilty then definitely a rejection.

Simple!!!

Not a problem, like I said personally I'd wait 12 months, to be on safe side today, but I also gave link to a post in 2012 where someone got approval having similar situation.

[wmazhar]

I think that guy in the link got approval because 3 years were passed

Summons by court FPN : wait 3 years before apply
By Police, 2 or more FPNs: wait 1 year before apply
By Police 1 FPN: No issue