is this a light at the end of the tunnel

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:00 am

surfing through Romania's embassy's website and found this

http://london.mae.ro/index.php?lang=en&id=19161

would this mean Family members of EU and EEA nationals wont need to apply for a visa (Although we all know we dont need one when travelling with our partners)

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:32 am

It has been so with Romania for some time and I had already pointed it out here and it still has not changed the perception by other EU countries. I think we still have a bit of a fight before it gets homogenized.

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:54 am

sorry i did not know u had. it take nothing for the remaining eu states to do the same.

i'll be waiting to see wot happens when switzerland joind schengen as passport holders with over six months' UK visa are allowed into their country with no visa

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:43 pm

In such cases, as seen with other countries that have joined the Schengen agreement, I am afraid that the Swiss will bring their entry requirements in line with the other Schengen Member states, which effectively should spell end of visa free travel to Switzerland by UK residents.

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:39 pm

a friend of a friend of mine who is from seychelles and has a UK spouse visa applied for a visa tourist visa for bulgaria and was refused a free visa because he did not have ILR and was told a fee had to be paid. he then thought bulls**t to that and got on a plane to Bulagria armed with a copy of DIRECTIVE 2004/58/EC in bugarian language and was not allowed to enter the country. he said he was threatened that he will be locked up if he did not put the DIRECTIVE away and leave the country onn their terms when he lost his patience. he claims he was not allowed to ring the British embassy when he asked for a phone although his wife and kids are brithish citizens. he said he was put on the next plane to UK and his family had no alternative but to join him.

this guy says he thinks it had a combination of beloved and ignorance

wot do u think guys, as i am open minded on this one

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:55 pm

Did he travel with his wife?

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:35 pm

yes he did. ive asked him to contact solvit but he sayd solvit is useless he will be trying to contace the office of the Vice President of the European Commission Franco Frattini

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:11 am

I would hazard a guess that in light of the UK and other major EU countries denying access to their labour markets to Bulgarian and Romanian citizens, the Bulgarians are not in too much of a hurry to implement Directive 2004/58/EC.

You should not underestimate how pissed off the Romanians and Bulgarians were about this.

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:34 am

Dawie wrote:I would hazard a guess that in light of the UK and other major EU countries denying access to their labour markets to Bulgarian and Romanian citizens, the Bulgarians are not in too much of a hurry to implement Directive 2004/58/EC.

You should not underestimate how pissed off the Romanians and Bulgarians were about this.

In fact, I think they found it particularly irksome with respect to the UK in the light of the fact that the UK, unlike most other "old" EU countries (and all the other large EU countries), allowed pretty much free access to the countries that joined the EU in May 2004

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:56 am

But that is how you learn, from your "mistakes". I am guessing that there was a huge influx from the new EU countries, much more than they really had expected, and inspite of several protests from high ranking HO officials to the contrary, coupled with the perdominant paranoia about the Poles et al "stealing" the British jobs, they decided to play it safe this time.

That said, Bulgaria has absolutely no right to deny free visa and entry for the EU family member and the non-EEA national. A petition to the European Court will surely yield a hefty fine and reimbursement of the expenses legal and otherwise by the Bulgarian authorities.

geoffsinclair · Post by **geoffsinclair** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:17 pm

We may be going over the same ground here but the Directive is not worth the recycled, low-carbon footprint paper it is written on. Frattini can talk until he is blue in the face (with 25 stars) the practical application of the Directive is not yet settled.

I know for a fact that the Romanian Embassy in London will tell non-EEA nationals, married to EU citizens, that they still need a visa to enter Romania - despite what it says on the Ro Emb website.

Yes this is a contradiction, but if UK Solvit can contradict themselves, then who are the Romanians and Bulgarians.

They are in fact very pissed off that the UK did not open its doors to them but there are official avenues for reciprocal restrictions which those governments have not (yet) adopted. This Directive just isnt that important in Europe at the moment.

The Directive 2004/38/EU is not yet settled law, rely on it at your own discretion, peril or success.

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:22 pm

out of couriosity, ive had a look at the Bulgarian website

http://www.bulgarianembassy-london.org/ ... Itemid=167

http://www.bulgarianembassy-london.org/ ... Itemid=158

and ive also noticed there is a separate fee 4 Nigerian passport holders this p**sed me off and made me call them to enquire about it as i am also on a spouse visa and a nigerian.

i was told i needed to have ilr to qualify for free visa if i am to travel with my wife, and also Nigerian passport holder's fee

i then called solvit to report this to them and i was told that Bulgaria can charge nigerians extra fee if travelling from nigeria to bulgaria under bulgarian immigrarion rule. but nigerians on spouse visa are to be classed as non-eu spouse of an eu national. the lady @ solvit asked for my consent in order to put the case forward to the EU.

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:48 pm

SMOOTH OPERATOR wrote:the lady @ solvit asked for my consent in order to put the case forward to the EU.

And did you give your consent to this? If so, what happens next?

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:25 pm

sorry i did give her my consent 20 minutes ago and told her i did not think she needed it as this matter was about telling bulgaria to shape up and adapt to the directive

Prawo · Post by **Prawo** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:19 pm

I brought up the case of visa free travel about 25 years ago to the European Commission. They thoroughly investigated the case and one year later all then member states admitted they were wrong charging fees.
Since then there shouldn't be any problem with the old member states to get a free visa, if the proper application is made (the do not give this info spontaneously).
However, the new member states apparently have to be educated.

Solvit and the EC legal service are no good. You have to write an official complaint to the European Commission.

Act fast as now they are evaluating directive 2004/38/EC and the report is expected March 2008.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:48 pm

I know for a fact that the Romanian Embassy in London will tell non-EEA nationals, married to EU citizens, that they still need a visa to enter Romania - despite what it says on the Ro Emb website.

I don't know how much of that is true. I will be attempting entry into Romania tomorrow with a Residence Card holder and his EEA wife but with no visa, but the Directive and the printout from the embassy website to help me.

Will verify practically whether it will work out or not firsthand.

Prawo · Post by **Prawo** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:10 pm

I suggest you arrive and try to enter during office hours and keep the phone number of the Romanian Solvit at hand for assistance.

See: http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/site/centres ... /index.htm

Good luck!

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:15 pm

Docterror wrote:I don't know how much of that is true. I will be attempting entry into Romania tomorrow with a Residence Card holder and his EEA wife but with no visa, but the Directive and the printout from the embassy website to help me.

Will verify practically whether it will work out or not firsthand.

Be sure you take the consular services phone number for the embassy of the EEA wife.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:43 am

I suggest you arrive and try to enter during office hours and keep the phone number of the Romanian Solvit at hand for assistance

Prawo, I do not think that is an option. Our flight arrives at 2.30 am (local time) and so office hours are out of the question. Will be taking the Solvit numebrs with us though.

Be sure you take the consular services phone number for the embassy of the EEA wife.

Directive/2004/38/EC, great idea... but I am stretching it a bit thin here. The wife is Romanian! Theoretically speaking, he may not be protected by EU laws, but it sure is going to be fun to try!

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:31 pm

Most EU countries, with the exception of the UK, it seems, grant GREATER rights to their own citizens than they do to other EU citizens. The chances are your friends are covered.

Prawo · Post by **Prawo** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:04 pm

The Netherlands also treat their own citizens now as third rate citizens.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:42 pm

Guys, made it through with absolutely ZERO trouble at all. Will tell all when back.

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:35 pm

u r joking? tell us wot happened at passsport control and was ur passport stamped?

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:59 pm

Docterror wrote:Guys, made it through with absolutely ZERO trouble at all. Will tell all when back.

Wot, u got out of Stoke-on-Trent without a visa?

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:18 pm

Bravo!

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is this a light at the end of the tunnel

is this a light at the end of the tunnel