Uk citizen, resident in portugal, visiting with non-EU spous

[flackie]

Ok, here's my situation. I think I am good to enter the UK with my wife, so I am really just interested whether anyone can think of an angle the UK border people will contrive to refuse.

My wife (girlfriend at time) is non-EU national, previously overstayed in the UK. We moved out of the EU together and lived in mid east for 8 years. During that time, we'd tried to get her in to visit the UK several times but she was always refused.

At the beginning of Sept last year, we moved to Portugal together, where we intend to live permanently (wife is Brazilian so language suits us, we have two kids now and want them to speak Portuguese natively). We have an apartment on annual lease, a car we purchased and I am self-employed (my primary income is from a UK company, I work in IT and so work largely via the internet). We are all fully registered here, I have residency docs, so does my wife and both kids, we have social security registrations for health service, fiscal numbers, bank accounts, etc. My 3 year old is going to kindergarten daily. It's all legit and genuine. And we are here permanently, we're not primarily doing this to immigrate to the UK via the Singh route - we like it here, every intention of staying.

We would like to go to the UK next month for a visit. I am pretty sure that as a UK citizen living and working in Portugal for 8 months (which it will be at that time), my wife has freedom of movement. We have marriage certificate, and both our names are on the birth certificates of both our kids. So proving the relationship is genuine is not going to be a problem.

But considering the past history with the border agency, I know they'll try whatever dirty tricks they can. Our last entry clearance went to appeal, we sent all the evidence by Fedex to the tribunal in leicester. And they received it. Month or two later, we get notified our appeal failed because we supplied no evidence. Turns out, that although they received our docs (and signed for, I had the Fedex online tracking).. they 'lost' them. We got a 'sorry' and they refused to re-run our appeal or allow us another to the higher tribunal. They previously applied a 10 year auto ban to my wife when she was refused entry on our first attempt to go back to the UK, even though she did not meet the criteria in their own rules for that (they later rescinded this in our failed appeal).

I do not want to apply for an EEA family permit in advance because I don't see why I should pay and jump through more hoops that I am not obliged to by EU law, especially given their dubious losing of documents in the past, and because even if we got it, it does not guarantee entry either.

So I am looking to ensure I have everything covered. What angle can they come at to try to deny my wife entry? We just want to bring our kids to the UK to visit family. That's it. We'll bring all the docs we have. I am just curious what angle a border agent who is a complete b'stard (the only kind in my experience unfortunately) will go with to refuse her. Or will they just meekly let her in?

[Jambo]

Due to her history she/you are likely to be questioned at the border so be prepared for that. Having said that, under the EEA route, they should allow in-country appeal so even if refused they are required to allow her entry. I suggest that if things get out of control, you ask to speak to the Chief Immigration Officer or ask them to call the European team in Liverpool. Are you landing in a major airport in the UK? You might have a better chance of having EEA rules educated IO there.

[flackie]

Yes, I would be disappointed if they wave us through without some questions. I'd like the satisfaction of them trying it on again and seeing the palpable disappointment as I ruin their day by producing our EU residence docs.

Our circumstances are genuine, and we have more than enough documents to prove anything they are reasonably entitled to ask. My wife overstayed, that's all - no criminal record, no deportation so certainly no chance for them to pull 'not conducive to public good' or similar.

What I was really wondering is what tricks they might pull, like losing our documents (accidentally of course), refusing to recognize me as a legit EU citizen and so denying any appeal, etc. In such cases, what should I do? There does not appear to be any EU hotline you can call for help if you're having problems at the border. If they did refuse my wife and we got an appeal, could they decide to hold her until that was heard?

[Obie]

What exactly did she receive the 10 years ban for. Just out of interest.

A ten years ban is not issued like that. Did they give reasons.
I dont think it may have an effect.
Remember regulation 9(3). In my view it is clearly unlawful so no need to debate on it.

An ECO could invoke that to cause you some trouble.

Your wife has a pretty decent prospect of success, I believe.

Your economic activity, if any , in Portugal will be put under the spot light.

[dalebutt]

Please also remember to translate all of the documents you wish to tender, you will save money if your wife translated them and have somone who has the authority to authenticate them stamp it to confirm that the translation is correct, it will be even better if you can have them notorised as well.

[flackie]

What exactly did she receive the 10 years ban for. Just out of interest.

She got the ban applied in 2006 when we turned up at Heathrow a couple of years after she'd left the UK. In fact, we weren't told of the ban then, it was only at a later application that they claimed she was banned for 10 years from that day, and turned it down on that basis.

Part of my last appeal dealt with the 10 year ban. They had zero grounds for this. My wife had left the UK at her own expense, voluntarily. She had never used forged documents or committed any crimes, or done anything else. The rules clearly state that being refused entry does not qualify as deportation, neither should it attract a ban. At the appeal, they accepted this was a mistake and subsequently dropped the ban. So the 10 year ban was wrong, and they already accepted this. Finally.

Remember regulation 9(3). In my view it is clearly unlawful so no need to debate on it.

An ECO could invoke that to cause you some trouble.

Your wife has a pretty decent prospect of success, I believe.

Your economic activity, if any , in Portugal will be put under the spot light.

We will have lived here for 8 months. Both my wife and our two kids are here. While my portuguese is rudimentary, my wife is fluent because she's Brazilian. This was a major reason we chose portugal. I spent a lot of time here as a kid on holiday as my grandparents had a place in the Algarve. My uncle now has an apartment down there.

My work is genuine, we're fully signed up to the tax system etc. here. One of my kids is enrolled at kindergarten here since we arrived, and we have tax declaration from them to prove this.

Also I note that the recent O v The Netherlands case seemed to establish that freedom of movement is not just open to those who are self-employed or working, but to all EU citizens.

In the end, we are genuinely living in portugal on a permanent basis, we have a car, apartment, kid in kindergarten, my job is largely working via the internet and phone (IT) so I rarely go back to the UK. We don't have any property in the UK, we've been living for the 8 years before coming here in the UAE (and married and living there for 3 years prior to leaving), so it's not like I've been in the UK and just skipping over here to trigger some immigration rules. In the end, if they want to say we're not genuine, they could say anyone isn't. I don't believe they could make that stick.

[flackie]

Please also remember to translate all of the documents you wish to tender, you will save money if your wife translated them and have somone who has the authority to authenticate them stamp it to confirm that the translation is correct, it will be even better if you can have them notorised as well.

There is absolutely no requirement for us to do this, Portuguese is a language of the EU.

Our marriage certificate is in Portuguese, as we were married in Brazil. We had to get a more recently re-issued one (within last 6 months) with a stamp from portuguese embassy in Brazil on it, to get my wife's residency confirmed in Portugal. So that's the marriage cert I have, as well as the original from back in 2009 when we got married. I have an english and arabic translation from the UAE if they really want fancy stamps, it has Brazil embassy and UAE ministry of foreign affairs stamps on it.

Our kids birth certificates are from Dubai, but we have both arabic and english versions (they issue both there). Both kids have British passports issued based on these birth certificates... so it's going to be funny if they claim those are not genuine, because then they're going to start questioning the passports my kids will be coming in with. Both birth certificates show both myself and my wife as the parents, and in Dubai they lock you up if you have kids out of wedlock.

These are genuine documents, there is absolutely no requirement for us to have English translations of our portuguese government issued documents. They could ask for translations if we were applying under UK law if they want, but they MUST accept documents in the language of EU countries. My wife's residency card is in portuguese - it states on it 'family member of EU national' or whatever, they have no right to ask that we get this translated to English. None at all. Such documents would be pointless for travel around the EU if the receiving country can refuse it because it is not in their own language.

[dalebutt]

It is for your own good and convenience that you should have any documents which are not in English or Welsh translated when dealing with the UKBA, the UKBA are entitled to refuse an application for this purpose, contrary to your belief, member states are not obliged to accept documents which is foreign to them, it does not matter if it is an EU language or not, there is no law that compels them to do so.

You might like to play safe, of course it's up to you what you choose to do eventually.

[flackie]

Wanted to update this thread with how we got on. Bit late, since we travelled last year, but stumbled back upon it and hopefully it might help someone else.

We travelled to the UK without a family permit. I took all the docs we had that we could think of with us. In particular (a) proof that I am resident in Portugal (registration docs from PT authorities) (b) marriage certificate from Brazil (c) my wife's Portuguese residence card, which says 'Family member of an EU national'.

We got stopped at immigration. The guy on the desk, an immigrant himself, was quite rude when I insisted that my wife should not have to provide a landing card and should be treated as an EU citizen would because we were resident in Portugal. He was clearly ignorant of EU laws, and insisted I was British, I and my family would be dealt with accordingly. I kept telling him to call 'EU casework' but he was having none of it. He held up my passport, and pointed to it sarcastically, as well as the British immigration sign behind him. He said that I was not in the Schengen area, that British immigration could do what they want 'because of security' and various other claptrap.

Eventually, a supervisor came over as the exasperated guy on the desk was losing his rag with me. I explained the situation, and he said 'noboby has been refused yet' and proceeded to run our passports. Of course, eventually he gets to my wife, and then finds out she was refused entry in the past. At this point, I explain again that I am resident in Portugal, and that me and my family are to be treated under EU law. I mention EU casework again, and suggest that he really should call EU casework now. He says he needs to make some calls because of my wife's prior refusal, to find the circumstances. At this point, I said to my wife I reckoned he was finally calling EU casework.

He came back after about minutes, and asked if I had a marriage certificate. At this point, I'm feeling pretty good, because this is what he should have asked from the beginning treating us under EU law - to prove my wife's status. I produced two marriage certs and explained we had to get the latter one as a reissue because PT immigration required one (re)issued within the last 6 months. He asked if I had any translations (I got the impression this was a request to help them out, rather than a requirement), and I voluntered two, one from the UAE and one from Brazil - both in English. He went straight off and came back and said he would stamp my wife in. Best of all, he made the original guy on the desk who'd given me all the crap do it.

While not certain, I still believe that you do not need a marriage certificate translated into English if it is in a language of an EU country and was accepted there. If you read the rules, it is clear that at immigration you have to be given every opportunity to prove your relationship. Providing a Brazilian marriage certificate, if married in Brazil, especially when one partner is from Brazil, is perfectly reasonable proof because Portuguese is a language of the EU, and because that same certificate was accepted for residency in Portugal. Freedom of movement would be a farce if the freedom was dependent on you having documents translated into the language of whatever country you visit. Imagine travelling with your partner to Denmark, and being refused entry because you had documents in English, and not translated into Danish. Then you need them in Slovakian, German, Finnish, etc. etc.