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ILR REFUSAL, COULD YOU PLEASE HELP URGENTLY!!?

General UK immigration & work permits; don't post job search or family related topics!

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Twin
Member of Standing
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:25 pm

Post by Twin » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:08 pm

tasha75 wrote:
Twin wrote: but right now, I just find it hard to hope. I am distraught!

It's understandable, Twin. My refusal came only a few weeks after my mum's death, and 1-2 weeks after we split with my partner. So as you can imagine I was also at my lowest. But keep faith, I have a good feeling about your appeal. Call it a women intuition :))
The judge might even have a heart whether the Home office is just like a credit card application - "computer said no" :)
...thank God your partner was considerate and compassionate! I can only imagine how you must have felt and i'm very sorry about your mother too.

Tasha, sorry to keep bothering you but did you appeal on article 8?

Thanks for your encouragement, I really, really appreciate it. Thank you very much.

OL7MAX
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:22 pm

Post by OL7MAX » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:01 pm

...it doesn't matter if you have or don't have a passport as the Home Office will arrange everything (travel documents) with the relevant embassy
Good point. So you shouldn't assume any single factor will cause sufficient delay. There's no harm in backup plans.
...seven year rule
Nothing is ever guaranteed but another bite at the cherry is a Good Thing.

tasha75
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Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:04 am

Post by tasha75 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:16 pm

Twin wrote: ...thank God your partner was considerate and compassionate!
Yes, he's always has been supportive. We went through a rough patch as most families occasionally do, but after mum's death I just didn't have any strength to work on my relationship. Although a (usually) quite strong person, at that time I needed a counsellor, and in the end we worked things out.
Tasha, sorry to keep bothering you but did you appeal on article 8?
Yes,we mainly appealed on on article 8, even tough, as in your case, the Home office has already considered it and any other compassionate circumstances.
I know a few "friends" who came to the UK and claimed a "fake" asylum. They are young people (30-35 y.o), lived off benefits and never worked a day in 5-8 years here, no families and some with prison sentences. And yet, they are all either British now, or have ILR. It makes my blood boil at such injustice. But life is shit.

Thanks for your encouragement, I really, really appreciate it. Thank you very much.
I know that you need a strength, when there is no hope left, you can't fight.
Do not live your life in fear.

tasha75
Member of Standing
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:04 am

Post by tasha75 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:19 pm

OL7MAX wrote: Good point. So you shouldn't assume any single factor will cause sufficient delay. There's no harm in backup plans.
Lets hope the postal strike continues till at least Christmas. :lol:
Nothing is ever guaranteed but another bite at the cherry is a Good Thing.
True. How does that advert say - Impossible is nothing?
Do not live your life in fear.

Twin
Member of Standing
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:25 pm

Post by Twin » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:28 pm

tasha75 wrote:
Twin wrote: ...thank God your partner was considerate and compassionate!
Yes, he's always has been supportive. We went through a rough patch as most families occasionally do, but after mum's death I just didn't have any strength to work on my relationship. Although a (usually) quite strong person, at that time I needed a counsellor, and in the end we worked things out.
Tasha, sorry to keep bothering you but did you appeal on article 8?
Yes,we mainly appealed on on article 8, even tough, as in your case, the Home office has already considered it and any other compassionate circumstances.
I know a few "friends" who came to the UK and claimed a "fake" asylum. They are young people (30-35 y.o), lived off benefits and never worked a day in 5-8 years here, no families and some with prison sentences. And yet, they are all either British now, or have ILR. It makes my blood boil at such injustice. But life is shit.

Thanks for your encouragement, I really, really appreciate it. Thank you very much.
I know that you need a strength, when there is no hope left, you can't fight.
Thanks Tasha. Another thing, please...: did you receive a removal notice?

tasha75
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Post by tasha75 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:29 pm

Twin wrote: Another thing, please...: did you receive a removal notice?
Do you mean IS151 form? At the bottom of my refusal letter it stated that IS151A,IS151B and 1041 (whatever that means) were enclosed but I didn't find them. Probably the forms were left with my solicitor and she only sent me the refusal letter.
The refusal letter also stated that my children were free to accompany me to my country and yet they were also served with the removal notice. Go work it out.
And the "best" part - even if your children are unable or unwilling to accompany you, it is not considered that your removal will amount to an unlawful interference with your family life. Removing mum from a 7 and 1 y.o. who was still breastfed is not interference? What is then?
Do not live your life in fear.

Twin
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Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:25 pm

Post by Twin » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:15 pm

tasha75 wrote:
Twin wrote: Another thing, please...: did you receive a removal notice?
Do you mean IS151 form? At the bottom of my refusal letter it stated that IS151A,IS151B and 1041 (whatever that means) were enclosed but I didn't find them. Probably the forms were left with my solicitor and she only sent me the refusal letter.
The refusal letter also stated that my children were free to accompany me to my country and yet they were also served with the removal notice. Go work it out.
And the "best" part - even if your children are unable or unwilling to accompany you, it is not considered that your removal will amount to an unlawful interference with your family life. Removing mum from a 7 and 1 y.o. who was still breastfed is not interference? What is then?
Hmmm...I really need to get a good solicitor. How long do you think it would take for me to get a hearing?

Twin
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Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:25 pm

Post by Twin » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:50 pm

Twin wrote:
tasha75 wrote:
Twin wrote: Another thing, please...: did you receive a removal notice?
Do you mean IS151 form? At the bottom of my refusal letter it stated that IS151A,IS151B and 1041 (whatever that means) were enclosed but I didn't find them. Probably the forms were left with my solicitor and she only sent me the refusal letter.
The refusal letter also stated that my children were free to accompany me to my country and yet they were also served with the removal notice. Go work it out.
And the "best" part - even if your children are unable or unwilling to accompany you, it is not considered that your removal will amount to an unlawful interference with your family life. Removing mum from a 7 and 1 y.o. who was still breastfed is not interference? What is then?
Tasha, can you please tell me how to contact your lawyer?
Hmmm...I really need to get a good solicitor. How long do you think it would take for me to get a hearing?

Twin
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Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:25 pm

Post by Twin » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:51 pm

tasha75 wrote:
Twin wrote: Another thing, please...: did you receive a removal notice?
Do you mean IS151 form? At the bottom of my refusal letter it stated that IS151A,IS151B and 1041 (whatever that means) were enclosed but I didn't find them. Probably the forms were left with my solicitor and she only sent me the refusal letter.
The refusal letter also stated that my children were free to accompany me to my country and yet they were also served with the removal notice. Go work it out.
And the "best" part - even if your children are unable or unwilling to accompany you, it is not considered that your removal will amount to an unlawful interference with your family life. Removing mum from a 7 and 1 y.o. who was still breastfed is not interference? What is then?
Tasha, can you please tell me how to contact your lawyer?

tasha75
Member of Standing
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:04 am

Post by tasha75 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:47 pm

Twin wrote: How long do you think it would take for me to get a hearing?
In my case it was just over 4 weeks from the day we sent an appeal letter.
Do not live your life in fear.

tasha75
Member of Standing
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:04 am

Post by tasha75 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:03 pm

Twin wrote: Tasha, can you please tell me how to contact your lawyer?
Twin, I am not sure you can directly access a particular solicitor with IAS. You are first seen by a general caseworker, who accesses your situation and refers you to another, more senior caseworker. And even then, they (IAS) only see people from their catchment area. You can check your nearest office here:
http://www.iasuk.org/C2B/document_tree/ ... egoryID=10

And if you don't qualify for free help, they offer a fee paying service which is not too expensive as they are non-profit organisation. You can check those fees here:
http://www.iasuk.org/C2B/document_tree/ ... egoryID=36

I've also heard/read good responses about this firms (but I have no personal experience):
http://www.plsimon.co.uk/
http://www.gherson.com/home

Also, there are some solicitors (?) on this forum, if they cannot do this type of application, may be they can advise you someone.
Do not live your life in fear.

Twin
Member of Standing
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:25 pm

Post by Twin » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:22 pm

tasha75 wrote:
Twin wrote: Tasha, can you please tell me how to contact your lawyer?
Twin, I am not sure you can directly access a particular solicitor with IAS. You are first seen by a general caseworker, who accesses your situation and refers you to another, more senior caseworker. And even then, they (IAS) only see people from their catchment area. You can check your nearest office here:
http://www.iasuk.org/C2B/document_tree/ ... egoryID=10

And if you don't qualify for free help, they offer a fee paying service which is not too expensive as they are non-profit organisation. You can check those fees here:
http://www.iasuk.org/C2B/document_tree/ ... egoryID=36

I've also heard/read good responses about this firms (but I have no personal experience):
http://www.plsimon.co.uk/
http://www.gherson.com/home

Also, there are some solicitors (?) on this forum, if they cannot do this type of application, may be they can advise you someone.
Thank you so much, Tasha. This site has been very helpful to me. I am very grateful.

Twin
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:25 pm

Post by Twin » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:08 pm

Hey guys, can you tell me what happens if I lose my appeal and asked to leave? I have no one to turn to in my country of origin as my father and siblings are here.

My daughter is British and I don't think I will be able to support us both if I should take her with me (I will have to find my feet too in a virtually new country). Would I be advised to put her in care or leave her with her father? Would I have an option of re-entry to join her?

Please help, guys. What do you think my alternatives are, please?

avjones
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Location: London
United Kingdom

Post by avjones » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:46 am

tasha75 wrote: They look at both, but as another poster has said they seems to be more human than the Home Office. I, like you, don't have anyone in my home country, I am the only child, my mum past away last year and my dad has been twice remarried since their divorce 15 years. It all didn't matter to the Home office, whereas the judge looked at this compassionately.
The trouble is, the Immigration Judge has to apply the law, whether that is the Immigration Rules, Article 8 (right to private and family life) etc. Compassion only gets you so far.
I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

Twin
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:25 pm

Post by Twin » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:31 am

avjones wrote:
tasha75 wrote: They look at both, but as another poster has said they seems to be more human than the Home Office. I, like you, don't have anyone in my home country, I am the only child, my mum past away last year and my dad has been twice remarried since their divorce 15 years. It all didn't matter to the Home office, whereas the judge looked at this compassionately.
The trouble is, the Immigration Judge has to apply the law, whether that is the Immigration Rules, Article 8 (right to private and family life) etc. Compassion only gets you so far.
avjones, thanks for your contribution. You are a barrister, I see. Please what advise would you give on my circumstance, please? Do you even think i'm eligible for the 7 year rule despite my child being British? Do you think article 8 can avail me? What grounds do you think I might have?

Please, your advise will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

avjones
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Location: London
United Kingdom

Post by avjones » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:50 pm

I can't advise you specifically on your circumstances - yours is a difficult case, and I couldn't give proper advice without looking at all the papers and circumstances. In addition, I'm a barrister, so I can't give direct legal advice anyway.

I would note that it is difficult to qualify under Article 8 at the best of times, and a "near miss" on a policy isn't enough to bring you withint A8.
I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

tasha75
Member of Standing
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:04 am

Post by tasha75 » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:52 pm

Hi Twin,

are you around? How are you getting on? Have you found yourself a lawyer to represent you at your appeal?

I was listening to the song from this thread and thought about you. :|
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=19444
Do not live your life in fear.

Twin
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Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:25 pm

Post by Twin » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:26 pm

tasha75 wrote:Hi Twin,

are you around? How are you getting on? Have you found yourself a lawyer to represent you at your appeal?

I was listening to the song from this thread and thought about you. :|
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=19444
Oh hello Tasha. Good to see you again and glad to know you have me in mind. Thank you.

As I didn't have much time, I decided to stick with my current lawyer and it's going to cost me a £1000 for this appeal alone. Can you believe that I received a date just 2 days after I appealed? My appeal is coming up at the end of this month and to be honest, i'm really not looking forward to it. I am dreading it each day but praying very hard. I have tried to find case laws that mirror mine to no avail ( just like you were able to use Baumbast and chen). Edore could have helped me but i found out that that was wrong in law. I hope the solicitor comes up with something good.

I was hoping that I could drag this till Jan when my daughter will be seven but well...

What are your advises for me? You've been through this. Please tell me something, anything...

Twin
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Post by Twin » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:42 am

Hello Tasha, you there?

Just a few questions for you please.

I need to prove my private life and I was wondering if you have advise on the type of documents of evidences to provide having being through a similar appeal yourself.

What evidences did you provide for family life as well?

Eagerly anticipating your response or anyone else's who can help too. Thanks all...

OL7MAX
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Post by OL7MAX » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:58 am

I was hoping that I could drag this till Jan
What does your solicitor say would be good grounds to ask for an adjournment?

Twin
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Post by Twin » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:40 pm

OL7MAX wrote:
I was hoping that I could drag this till Jan
What does your solicitor say would be good grounds to ask for an adjournment?
Hello Ol7max,

My solicitor didn't say anything about adjournment, he just wants us to go for this appeal and try our best first. If refused, we might get a chance to ask for a reconsideration and given the time it would take to receive the adjudicator's determination, we might be able to drag it into January given that the court goes on break sometime in mid December, I understand?

My appeal is on the 23rd of November and if determination arrives 10 days later, it will already be December and hopefully by the time we respond, it will be mid December and if we get a leave from court, the appeal might not happen until after 9th of Jan which then my daughter would have turned 7 and might enable us to bring new grounds to the court? But then again.......my daughter is British so no 100% guarantee of success in that.

If it drags out that long, it would cost me a lot of money also. Currently, this one appeal is costing me £1,500 including solicitors fees. I just want to put all my energy in this one first and see how it goes.

My husband has agreed to support the application but i don't know if ther's much he can do now as he has submitted an application with his girlfriend which basically proves that our marriage isn't subsisting.

It's now a case for the Judge to weigh the proportionality of my removal with regard to the right or well being of my child. If i'm removed, she loses contact with father. If I leave her with her father, she loses contact with me and there is no guarantee of my return.

The most difficult thing to prove now is the insurmountable obstacle. My country isn't a terrible place to return to at the moment so that doesn't help.

I can only pray and hope at this stage.

OL7MAX
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:22 pm

Post by OL7MAX » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:42 pm

My solicitor didn't say anything about adjournment
Was it because he consciously took a decision that it was in your best interests or ... because he didn't think of it?
he just wants us to go for this appeal and try our best first.
I don't care what my solicitor "wants". I care about what's in my best interest. And it's up to him to justify why he recommends a certain course of action.

Have you even considered that the judgement might "stop the clock" on your child's age? If so (and I don't know if it is) then you may have ruined your chances simply by taking this hearing instead of a later one. Even if it doesn't affect the age count the HO could argue at any future appeal that your child's age at time of judgement was what mattered.

Are these things you have grilled your solicitor on? I may be barking up the wrong tree but it pays to try all the trees in the park.
I can only pray and hope at this stage.
Sorry to be harsh but that's a defeatist attitude. You can do a lot more than praying. Start by not accepting everything professional advisers dish out and accept that they can sometimes be wrong or just not very thorough.

edited to correct a sentence that wasn't making sense.
Last edited by OL7MAX on Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Twin
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Post by Twin » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:16 pm

Ol7max, I totally see your point and after dishing out so much money on my case so far, I know better than just to take everything he advises lying down. I was going to change to another advisor but thought about the time limit.

Now, on the 7 year concession, one of the factors that could count against an appellant is by knowingly delaying representation...or something along that line. This could stand against one.

Actually, on the issue of adjournment, I don't think he thought of it, actually and I didn't bring it up.

As per my child's age, I think the home office would argue that anyway, whether now or in January (when my daughter actually turns 7). At the date of the decision, the dp5/96 policy didn't apply to my case but then again I have read case laws where the delay and near misses have been argued to the appellant's favour.

In my case, had the home office replied within a reasonable time after the application, I would have qualified for the dp3/96 which is the marriage policy but due to their delay, I have been disadvantaged (this does not necessarily carry a heavy weight when decision needs to be reached but it would be considered). Of course, in the period of waiting, my daughter's family life became stronger and so did mine. These are good grounds, I think but then again, the article8 is such a high threshold but I think I might just pass it.

What bothers me now of course is the fact that I currently don't fall under any policy to be considered on but article 8 but whether the dp3/96 can be argued is what I wait to see. My solicitor is confusing at the moment and i've thought if it wouldn't have been better to represent myself and save on that fees.

That aside, how could I have asked for an adjournment? I thought of your earlier suggestions but none seemed feasible. My daughter has no medical conditions I could capitalise on and neither do I. My chances might not be so bad on article 8 though.

What would you have suggested? It might not be too late for me to make a 'u-turn', that's why I come here for advise.


OL7MAX wrote:
My solicitor didn't say anything about adjournment
Was it because he consciously took a decision that it was in your best interests or ... because he didn't think of it?
he just wants us to go for this appeal and try our best first.
I don't care what my solicitor "wants". I care about what's in my best interest. And it's up to him to convince to justify why he recommends a certain course of action.

Have you even considered that the judgement might "stop the clock" on your child's age? If so (and I don't know if it is) then you may have ruined your chances simply by taking this hearing instead of a later one. Even if it doesn't affect the age count the HO could argue at any future appeal that your child's age at time of judgement was what mattered.

Are these things you have grilled your solicitor on? I may be barking up the wrong tree but it pays to try all the trees in the park.
I can only pray and hope at this stage.
Sorry to be harsh but that's a defeatist attitude. You can do a lot more than praying. Start by not accepting everything professional advisers dish out and accept that they can sometimes be wrong or just not very thorough.

OL7MAX
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:22 pm

Post by OL7MAX » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:54 pm

knowingly delaying representation...or something along that line.
If you have a row with your solicitor and he "sacks" you then you have to find a new one, don't you? And that takes time! It's not your fault if he writes you a letter to say he's going to stop acting for you. And if he dates it too close to the hearing then wouldn't the court feel you needed a few days to find one, familiarise him with your case, let him discuss it with a barrister etc?

(seeing that you considered changing solicitors anyway)

I've sent you a PM. No, it's not about solicitors - I don't know any good ones to recommend - it's about adjournment.

tasha75
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Post by tasha75 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:45 pm

Twin wrote:Hello Tasha, you there?
Hi Twin, I am sorry I didn't reply before. We were redecorating house, and with having a job, two kids (and the third on the way), I was too tired to get here at night.
I've noticed your appeal was supposed to be yesterday. How did it go?
Do not live your life in fear.

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