Rejected for Spouse Visa! NatWest bank statements!

[nbe]

It isn't possible to use cat A as a director.

[nbe]

nmb's point is that under Category F it appears that bank statements need to cover the period of the Tax return with no requirement for the last statement to be within 28 days of submission. The reason I posted the link to the Immigration Rules is to enable a thorough reading in case anything has been missed when applying under category F as a company Director.

Yes and here is the 28 day rule wording:

"(l) Where this Appendix requires the applicant to provide specified evidence relating to a
period which ends with the date of application, that evidence, or the most recently dated
part of it, must be dated no earlier than 28 days before the date of application."

For Category F it explicitly states, as I previously quoted, that all documents line up with the 12 month company tax return. It does not ask for any evidence that lines up with the date of application.

So Category F does not need to adhere to the 28 day rule. It is purely assessed on the company tax return 12 month window.

[nbe]

On the matter of the bank statements, it would seem from the Immigration Rules (guidance for Case Workers on right to refuse) that you should have been given the opportunity to provide bank statements in the required format.
(f) Before making a decision under Appendix FM or this Appendix, the decision-maker may
contact the applicant or their representative in writing or otherwise to request further information
or documents. The material requested must be received at the address specified in the request
within a reasonable timescale specified in the request.


It might be useful to read through Section 9 on financial evidence required when applying as a Director of a limited company:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _final.pdf

Yup it appears they made an error by not offering us time to provide more evidence and secondly by misunderstanding our "additional comments" into thinking we had not included any NatWest statements.

I'm phoning Manila on Monday. My business partner's nephew used to be an ECM in Manila a couple years ago and he said if I am persistent enough to speak with the ECM there and then it is possible for an ECM to immediately overturn a decision. Even if he can bring it back into a Deferred state would be a massive win.

Meanwhile, some good news. My parents visited their local NatWest branch and the manager there is willing to print, coverletter, stamp the statements! Catch though, I had to change statement correspondence address to my parents address on the account which didn't show up on their system on Friday. But they assure me that it will by Monday. So on Monday my parents will go back to see the manager, and witness her do the work and put it in their postal outbox. It is frustrating that they insist it must be posted; they cannot just hand it to my parents despite having proof they live at that address. They will make sure she posts it First Class so that the next day my parents can take it to FedEx and send it on 2 day airmail priority service (£40!).

Once this is all over, NatWest is going to enjoy spending time with me and the financial ombudsman. Their call center is giving out woefully inaccurate advice on critical matters.

[michali]

I think there is no way round this. I have read of cases where online statements have been accepted but it is rare. Fortunately for us we did not need to use NatWest statements for our application abroad. My advice to be certain would be to return to UK and arrange for the bank to post the statements to you while you are there. It should only take a few days. For some reason, even though the statements may look the same, UKVI are able to distinguish the difference. As said, it may be the paper. Alternatively, print out the part of the rules that show statements must be stamped or accompanied by an official bank letter and take it into a few branches. NatWest and HSBC do not generally stamp statements but you might find a branch that will.

[nbe]

It's okay. My parents local branch is going to do it on Monday. They will post it to them since I've now changed the statements correspondence address (via telephone to their Direct Business Banking line) to my parents address. They won't just hand the documents over to my parents which I can sort of understand from a "computer says no" perspective.

[nbe]

Okay so the bank manager read her employee handbook over the weekend and come Monday she had changed her tune.

My heart sunk when speaking to her when she said she isn't allowed to certify any documents. But it transpired that her and NatWest's idea of "certifying" is different from UK Immigration. I read the paragraph to her about bank statements from the FM-SE and it became clear that her idea of what certification was is different.

It turns out she was more than happy to print off the statements. Use the NatWest "branch logo and address" stamp on all the pages. And even wrote a cover letter (on official bank stationary paper) explaining something to the effect of "[the customer has requested that I print all statements and stamp all pages with the branch stamp and these documents are attached to this cover note]". And attach her business card to the bundle of paper.

I advise all those people who have problems with NatWest or HSBC etc to use your words very carefully. Don't brandish around the word "certify" to them because it will just confuse them and they will just erect a wall against you on the rest of the conversation. Be very clear to your bank that all you want them to do is print your statements, use the branch logo ink stamp on all pages, and include a cover letter explaining what they have done and make sure that cover letter is on official stationary.

What they refuse to do is use any form of a "GENUINE" or "CERTIFIED" ink stamp. Nor will they use any words like that on a cover letter.

[nbe]

I searched the Ombudsman's public records and found a few cases like mine where NatWest lost cases over this matter.

So further the previous advice, if you have suffered a Visa refusal as a result of NatWest's inconsistent and inability to promptly offer the bank statements in the requested format then take them to the Ombudsman (like I will be doing).

I know in my case it will be very easy to prove wrongdoing and incompetence, and along with the history of Ombudsman judgements against them on this exact matter, your chances of winning are surely very high. But I will save my story on that for another thread once we have got past this immediate hurdle with UK Immigration.

[SoHopeful]

Glad you got it sorted. LLoyds back in 2013 were happy to print transactions on headed paper and the ECO was happy with just that... for my husband's FLR next year I will be requested paper statements from January just avoid any potential headache.

[nbe]

Well here's something you don't see everyday:

Dear Mr E____

Thank you for your email which has been referred to the Entry Clearance Manager.

For us to further assess the application, kindly re-submit the company bank statements by replying to this email.


Yours sincerely

Correspondence Team, Manila Visa Hub
UK Visas and Immigration

We made a somewhat informal "administration error" complaint to their deferrals e-mail address (which we only knew about because our application was deferred for a day pending IHS Surcharge payment). It more of a protest than anything as we knew the chances of getting a reply from them on that email address was very very low. And yet, several days later they respond with that (as quoted). Will discuss with my wife now on the best way to proceed because obviously if they are giving us the opportunity to re-submit evidence then this is a major turn of events (for the positive).

In other news, my £57.00 "UPS Express Saver" NatWest bank statements are on the UPS airplane. According to tracking, currently in Germany for a short stop-over. ETA is Thursday apparently.

[Casa]

That's terrific news! I believe you have a very strong chance of a overturn of the original decision. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Immigration Rules clearly show that the ECO was in error for not giving you the opportunity to submit new bank statements before making a decision on the application. Go for it!

[nbe]

We have replied to them asking how do we formally re-submit the bank statements. Since their email seemed to imply we would re-submit them via email. But we have asked if they would like them as paper hardcopy via postal mail.

I attached to the email all the PDF files of my online statements, just incase the ECM intends on looking up the bank account records via their computer systems (which I'm told they can do if they feel like it) and compare them to our PDFs.

It seems like we have fallen into an "edge case" scenario now, so anything is possible.

I really hope the ECM replies by end of Thursday though, else we will probably be forced to re-submit a new application due to time constraints.

[nbe]

Note I sent the PDFs on a separate email just in case their email servers block anything with attachments.

[nbe]

No reply from them as yet. I just sent a chaser email and a reminder that we paid for priority service.

[nbe]

I have some news but not going to share it until we have her passport back, hopefully middle to late next week.

[Casa]

Keeping us in suspense?

[nbe]

Dear Mr E____

Thank you for sending us your NatWest company statements. The application has been reviewed in light of the further information provided with these statements and the decision to refuse has been overturned. I apologise for the inconvenience this has caused. I would be grateful if you could please now submit _____ _____’s passport to the Visa Application Centre (VAC) in Singapore between 8am to 2pm Monday-Friday. Please present a copy of this email upon your arrival at the VAC.

The attached authorisation letter must be presented if an authorised representative will be submitting your documents on your behalf: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... sation.pdf.

With Best Wishes

Entry Clearance Manager

They asked for PDF bank statements to be sent via e-mail, then the next day just a couple hours ago we got that. Subsequently confirmed with them for a black & white "yes / no" whether its been granted or not and got a "yes".

[Casa]

"and the decision to refuse has been overturned. I apologise for the inconvenience this has caused."
This means you've got the visa. Well done

[nbe]

Yup

Mr E___

Yes the visa will be issued once we get her passport.


Entry Clearance Manager

[Casa]

Brilliant! They obviously knew they were at fault for not giving you the opportunity to submit statements before refusing. Really pleased for you both.

[nbe]

Thanks for all your help and support Casa and everyone else. The last week was incredibly stressful but it seems like less than a week later everything has worked out for us.

[nbe]

Picked up her passport today. All resolved. It is a 33 months visa, not a vignette. I guess our application was just a few days before they brought in the Biometric Residence Permit requirement.

I think we broke some sort of record.

1 week to go from outright refusal and contemplating the appeal process, to having it overturned and 1 more week to have the visa/passport in our hands.

[Mr Kirk]

Sorry Casa
not quite sure i got that. if i print the statements which is available in a PDF format online in my account, it looks exactly the same to statements which i used to receive in paper copies from bank direct. there is or will be no difference if i print it in colors and looks original. do i still need to get it stamped?

It is better to get them stamped on every page just to be safe.

[Casa]

Mr Kirk, if you read through the thread you will see that the problem arose as NatWest refused to stamp the statements. The OP's wife now has her visa.

[nbe]

Yes and to summarise I managed to get them to overturn the refusal by sending them the PDF files via e-mail. An ECM reviewed the case and overturned it on the spot.

Not saying it will work for everyone of course; I think it was an easy overturn for them to make based upon the overwhelming evidence that I clearly made more than the 18,600 financial requirement.

[HarryC]

Excellent news NBE.

Congratulations.

And i on the safer side, will pay £10 to HSBC and ask them send me a paper copy of statement as they too wont stamp and neither will do a covering letter. Dont need the hassle and will send paper copies.

Feels like i should send them the envelopes too in which my statement will come just to show that they are genuine original statements.