English M loves Brazilian F in Holland

[christov]

Hello,

Sorry if this is in the wrong place, ive never posted on a forum before.

Im Chris, 31 and English, I moved to Utrecht, Netherlands 18 months ago and 9 months go I met a beautiful women 31 who is Brazilian.
After a few dates I found out she was living in Amsterdam illegally for 3 years (well 2.5 years as her visa expired).

I wasnt obviously considering long term stuff when we first met or what now we can and cant do. Nearly a year on, I really want to plan my future with her. I have a good job, savings and want to buy a house in Holland, yet she can only get cash in hand cleaning or babysitting jobs and lives with the worry she will be deported. Im even worried that someone coud rob or attack her and she would have no rights?
She doesnt want to go back to Brazil to live, although she is fine to go back to visit her family.

My question is - what are our options? are there any lol? - shes well educated and used to be a journalist in Brazil, her biggest dream is to live in the Netherlands with me, work legally, pay taxes and buy a house with me.

My mum died a few weeks ago and it was really tough as i went back to the UK alone to sort everything out and she couldnt come. Its strange I could drive with her to Budapest, or even take a flight to Portugal, but yet we cant hop on the 30minute Eurotunnel back to my homeland.

Any help, advise would be so appreicated, I havent a clue where to start. Marriage, going with her to Brazil, all valid options? or are they? im open to suggestions, but I would like to know what (if any) options we have.

If you have got this far, thanks so much for reading and we really look forward to your replies.

Have a great weekend all the same.
Chris

[Casa]

The simplest way (if you're committed long-term to the relationship) would be to marry in Brazil and apply for an EU family permit for her to join you in the Netherlands. If you later decided to settle in the UK, you could re-locate under the Surinder Singh route.
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/surinder-singh

[noajthan]

...

My question is - what are our options? are there any lol? - shes well educated and used to be a journalist in Brazil, her biggest dream is to live in the Netherlands with me, work legally, pay taxes and buy a house with me.

My mum died a few weeks ago and it was really tough as i went back to the UK alone to sort everything out and she couldnt come. Its strange I could drive with her to Budapest, or even take a flight to Portugal, but yet we cant hop on the 30minute Eurotunnel back to my homeland.

Any help, advise would be so appreicated, I havent a clue where to start. Marriage, going with her to Brazil, all valid options? or are they? im open to suggestions, but I would like to know what (if any) options we have.

If you have got this far, thanks so much for reading and we really look forward to your replies.

Have a great weekend all the same.
Chris

Chris,
To start with I have no idea quite how to regularise the lady's stay in Holland but bear with me.
I am sure other members can & will contribute on that matter.

That aside, as a BC you have 2 routes (especially if you somehow wish to end up back in UK in the long-run):
a) work within UK Immigration Regulations
or
b) operate under EU Rules, with free movement & exercising treaty rights.

Note as a BC you can normally only exercise treaty rights as you are doing now, outside UK.

If your ultimate aim is to return to UK then exercising your treaty rights abroad in EU can really help you.
And if that is not your aim then working abroad is obviously worthwhile - you're doing it already after all.

So you are potentially on the 'Surinder Singh' path (a variation of EU rules) already having already moved your 'centre of life' to another EU country.
This is all to the good; for example it will (probably) let you bring your wife/partner with you to UK under EU rules (not UK immigration regs) at some point in the future.

In comparison, essentially all you can do under UK laws is to move back to UK with the lady on a fiancee, spouse or marriage visa.
(UK laws obviously do not help you living the dream out in mainland EU).

fyi:
Fiancee visa - grants entry to UK for fiancee; you need to be married within 6 months (in UK) then apply for a further spouse visa.
Spouse visa grants entry to spouse to UK if you marry abroad;
Marriage visa grants fiancee entry into UK just to marry - then she has to leave UK again.

Note: There is no 'girlfriend/dating'-type visa in the UK system.
btw - forget about UK visit visas, they won't help you in a relationship.

Under the UK immigration framework the only other options are if lady comes into UK independently;
eg on a work visa (Tier 2 - needs employer sponsorship) or on a study visa (Tier 4).

So back to you in Holland, sorry Netherlands.
If lady's stay was regularised you'd be good to carry on as you are., either building up an unmarried relationship or working towards getting married.

Thought experiment - Married
For a moment let's imagine you are married (to each other).
Lady leaves Netherlands, applies for a short-term Schengen visa & re-enters Netherlands with you.
If that is enough to regularise her stay (& I don't know so you need more input &/or need to check) she will now be a dependent family member of EEA national (ie you) exercising treaty rights in NL.

Job done!

- in NL
You would be set up because once lady has entered the country on a proper (even short-term) visa she can remain with you as you are an EEA national exercising treaty rights.

As a dependent family member she can then apply for a Dutch residence card & be able to work/study, etc legally.

Remember this is primarily if you are marrried & can regularise her stay in Netherlands.

- BUT maybe not in NL
If the irregularity is so bad she/you need to leave you could relocate to another EU country of choice.
Then possibly continue as you are but in a new country; (especially if she can enter another country on her own basis - eg what about Portugal??).

So, if for some Dutch legal reason you cannot regularise the stay in Netherlands, I think you would have to contemplate marrying & building 'centre of life' in another EU country (Belgium, Germany, Portugal??)

fyi - a lot of Brits choose Ireland too.

Thought experiment - Unmarried
Now if unmarried & no plans to marry in short-term then, as I understand EU rules, you would need to be together for 2 years, living as man & wife, to be recognised as being in a durable, unmarried relationship.

Someone in a durable relationship can then also be the dependent family member of an EEA national exercising rights in an EU country.

- where?
But the challenge is, if you don't plan to marry almost immediately: where can you both go to do that bit?
I.e. to have an unmarried relationship for 2 years before it's recognised as durable, in order to then continue in EU under EU rules.
Maybe Brazil??

Summary
1) If lady's stay in NL can be regularised then it (obviously) helps, especially if regularised on her own basis.

2) If regularised & you marry then she doesn't need to have a long-term visa on her own basis, she can readily become a dependent family member (on you) - in NL.

3) If marriage is not on cards right now but long-term you want to be in EU, you need to go somewhere for 2 years to buld the durable realationship.
It's not clear where to go.

Note Any life built in EU will help you return to UK at a later date under (beneficial) EU rules, via Surinder Singh.

4) If you want to relocate to UK 'soon' then consider fiancee or spouse route.
Be aware (at least IMHO), the UK route is somewhat discriminatory & financially-draining for Brits with a non-EEA partner - I've done it myself.

So, lots to think about.
It's tricky (for me) to explain so hope some at least makes sense - hope it helps.
Good luck.

[liksah]

Great information in both posts above. I'd just like to add that prior overstays do not count against the residence of the spouse of an EU national. So in the case that you both get married in Brazil, she moves to Holland with you on a short term visa and applies for a residence card - she cannot be denied residence on any basis except as a threat to public safety and public health (previous overstays do not fall into this category).

Since Brazilians can enter the Schengen space without a visa, she would not even have a problem in arriving to the Dutch border with you from Brazil (as no visa needs to be applied for before flying).

So perhaps the best course of action is to:
1. Get married in Brazil.
2. Come back to the EU armed with marriage certificate, etc. If denied entry at border posts due to the prior overstay she should be able to still enter based on being a documented spouse of an EU national.
3. Start exercising treaty rights in the Netherlands and your wife applies for a residence card - again, this cannot be denied on the basis of a prior overstay.

The UK route (without Surinder Singh) is perhaps harder as mentioned because unfortunately the UK is practicing a policy of harassing family members of EU nationals, and they seem to have a lot more power through UK legislation and thus it is worse for families of UK nationals =/

[chukwudi]

Hello Chris

According to the Dutch law, you can document an existential relationship either by marriage,having a child together, registered partnership or by cohabitation. A feasible route is for her to apply as your cohabiting partner but in this case, both of you will have to prove that you have been living together in the same address for at least six months (and registered there with the cityhall). Of course such requirements pressumes that your partner is legal in NL, but there is a way around it.

You should gather any kind of evidence that shows a relationship between the both of you and/or a cohabitation agreement drawn up and signed by the both of you. Then submit this to the IND (Dutch immigration) as evidence of your relationship. The application will be accepted and a six month sticker issued to her on her passport immediately. With this sticker, she can register at the same address with you pending when a decision is made on her application. There are high chances that your application will be rejected, but the advantage is that within the interim, she will be accumulating the six months requirement to be eligible as your cohabiting partner when she register at the same address with you.

If the application is successful, fine. But if unsucceesful, you may appeal in an attempt to keep extending her registration at the same address with you. All this process is just to accumulate the six months time needed to qualify as your partner. After the six months qualifying period has been accumulated, you can make a fresh application and her 5 years residence card will be issued in no time.

Goodluck.