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Getting Married to a Belgian Citizen

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picosam
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Getting Married to a Belgian Citizen

Post by picosam » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:21 pm

I've asked this before but I've never got a satisfying answer; I hope I will this time. I'm an Egyptian getting married to my Belgian girlfriend in Egypt. We have no problems in getting married in Egypt and we got the list of required documents from the Belgian Embassy in Egypt. We will be staying (and living) together in Cairo until September of 2008. At that point, she has to travel to Syria to finish her PhD for a year. I would like to go to Europe then, work, setup a decent home until she returns back a year later.

1. Would they allow me to reside in Europe even though my wife is in Syria?
2. What kind of proof of relationship should I be preparing that would be useful later? For example, the contract of the flat we're renting currently, is only in my name. Should she, for instance, register the same address in the consulate?
3. How about if I want to go to Europe (alone) for a couple of weeks at some point before she leaves Egypt (and before I apply for residency), would I get that VISA easily? Or would she still have to be traveling with me?

Thank you,
Sammy

sakura
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Location: UK

Re: Getting Married to a Belgian Citizen

Post by sakura » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:10 pm

picosam wrote:I've asked this before but I've never got a satisfying answer; I hope I will this time. I'm an Egyptian getting married to my Belgian girlfriend in Egypt. We have no problems in getting married in Egypt and we got the list of required documents from the Belgian Embassy in Egypt. We will be staying (and living) together in Cairo until September of 2008. At that point, she has to travel to Syria to finish her PhD for a year. I would like to go to Europe then, work, setup a decent home until she returns back a year later.

1. Would they allow me to reside in Europe even though my wife is in Syria?
2. What kind of proof of relationship should I be preparing that would be useful later? For example, the contract of the flat we're renting currently, is only in my name. Should she, for instance, register the same address in the consulate?
3. How about if I want to go to Europe (alone) for a couple of weeks at some point before she leaves Egypt (and before I apply for residency), would I get that VISA easily? Or would she still have to be traveling with me?

Thank you,
Sammy
I'm not 100% sure about this, so others are free to chip in and offer clarification, but I'll give it a shot!

Using your numbers;
1. Which part of Europe are you referring to (i.e. which country)? And exactly how long (in months or years) will she be out of the EU? Is she planning on returning home in-between Egypt and Syria?

Generally, you need to enter (the EU country) with your wife if you wish to reside here, or enter to join her in the country. You normally cannot live in the country without her being present with you, especially if she is going to be away for a long time. Now, it depends on what country you're referring to - Belgium or any other EU/EEA state?

If it is Belgium, you need to read up about Belgian immigration rules re spouses from non-EEA countries. If it is any other EEA country, then you need to read about the EEA family permits, but I don't think you can live in any EU country without your wife, especially if she's going to be out of the EU for a good year or two.

2. Not sure - maybe the marriage certificate, and then some, but it depends on the country in which you wish to reside.

3. If you're going alone, you certainly won't be granted a spouse visa or EEA family permit if you're not going to join your wife in the EU. If she's still abroad - you have to stay with her, I think. You can apply for a visit visa, but that's on your own accord.

AFAIK, it would be difficult to secure a long-term settlement visa if she isn't going to be in the EU/country with you for so long. It's hard in the UK (only short absences or absences for work are possible, I'm not sure about 12+ months), so maybe the same elsewhere.

picosam
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Post by picosam » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:55 pm

1. Well I'm referring to Italy or France actually. That's where we're planning to finally reside. We're not planning on her returning home (to Belgium or anywhere in Europe for that matter) in between Egypt and Syria, no. But if that's the requirement to get this done, that's easy! We can go there together for a week or something. For that matter actually, I don't understand how they would verify. What happens if we tell the consulate that she's going back with me, they give me the visa then she goes to Syria! Are they actually going to check that she's returned to Europe with me?!

3. I can apply to a visit visa "on my own accord"? What does that mean? I thought visit visas were automatic (as in, given easily) if I merely present proof that we're married. Does she also need to travel with me in that case?!

Thank you,
Sammy

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:27 am

I do not know of any country that will automatically issue a visa to somebody who just presents a marriage certificate indicating they are married to a citizen.

Typically you must show that you have a solid and ongoing relationship with the person, and you must be travelling with or joining your partner. This is certainly true in the EU.

On the other hand, if you qualify for your own visa because of your professional qualifications or legal situation, without relying on the fact that you are married, then you could obviously move ahead without your future husband.

picosam
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Post by picosam » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:52 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:I do not know of any country that will automatically issue a visa to somebody who just presents a marriage certificate indicating they are married to a citizen.
Sorry, I didn't mean to signify that it's that automatic :D
What I meant was, she doesn't have to travel to Europe and get me an invitation like usual now no? The marriage certificate just exempts some papers that I normally had to present... at least I hope so! I also get the visa for free?
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Typically you must show that you have a solid and ongoing relationship with the person, and you must be travelling with or joining your partner. This is certainly true in the EU.
Even if I'm just going there for a visit (less than 90 days)? She absolutely has to come with me?!

Thanks,
Sammy

sakura
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Post by sakura » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:22 am

picosam wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:I do not know of any country that will automatically issue a visa to somebody who just presents a marriage certificate indicating they are married to a citizen.
Sorry, I didn't mean to signify that it's that automatic :D
What I meant was, she doesn't have to travel to Europe and get me an invitation like usual now no? The marriage certificate just exempts some papers that I normally had to present... at least I hope so! I also get the visa for free?
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Typically you must show that you have a solid and ongoing relationship with the person, and you must be travelling with or joining your partner. This is certainly true in the EU.
Even if I'm just going there for a visit (less than 90 days)? She absolutely has to come with me?!

Thanks,
Sammy
Basically, if you wish to reside long-term/permanently in Italy or France, you need either to enter to join her, or to accompany her (and she must also intend to reside there long-term). If she isn't going to be exercising treaty rights (that is, being a student, in employment or self-sufficient) and she isn't at all there, then you cannot reside there at all.

As for visiting, I don't think a marriage certificate would work, because she isn't even in the country you wish to enter! So, if she isn't in the country, you'd probably have to apply using your own supporting documents. That way, the visa is issued for you to travel without her.

picosam
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Post by picosam » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:26 am

sakura wrote:If she isn't going to be exercising treaty rights (that is, being a student, in employment or self-sufficient) and she isn't at all there, then you cannot reside there at all.
Wait, but she has to go to Syria for a year only because of her employment contract. Does this help?

The thing is, I really believe with my profession I can setup our house in Europe faster than if I continue working outside. Isn't there a way at all?

Regards,
Sammy

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:03 pm

If you have the professional qualifications, you may be able to get a visa on your own. If that is not possible, you will need to wait and move WITH your wife. Your right of free movement is only when you are travelling with her, or after you have moved and you get a Residence Card.

picosam
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Post by picosam » Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:03 pm

Well I guess that answers it then. One more thing though, does our staying together in foreign countries work towards years required before applying for citizenship; in both cases of Belgium and Italy? She has both passports, so after getting married we're going to register the marriage in the Italian consulate as well as the Belgian.

Thanks,
Sammy

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