UK Citizenship, both Referees live abroad?

[hoping1]

Hello all,

My wife is eligible for UK Citizenship soon and lives in the UK.
When applying for UK Citizenship, I am aware that the professional person can live aboard but the 2nd Referee must be the holder of a British citizen passport, well is it ok if that person also resides abroad currently?
So both referees live abroad?

[noajthan]

Hello all,

My wife is eligible for UK Citizenship soon and lives in the UK.
When applying for UK Citizenship, I am aware that the professional person can live aboard but the 2nd Referee must be the holder of a British citizen passport, well is it ok if that person also resides abroad currently?
So both referees live abroad?

That may be permissible if you live abroad and so have difficulty reaching out to persons located in UK.

Otherwise my understanding is HO prefers referees to be UK-based.
After all they may wish to contact them.

Wife must have lived in UK for 5 years or more to be ready to naturalise.
The second referee can be anyone (over age of 25, they don't have to be a professional too) - surely your wife has known some friend or acquaintance in UK for 3 of those 5 years?

[hoping1]

Could the professional referee be retired?

Wife must have lived in UK for 5 years or more to be ready to naturalise.

Sorry but thats not right, its actually 3 years of living in the UK for the spouse of a UK national before they can apply for Naturalization not 5. She got ILR in July last year and will have been living in the UK for 3 years in July 2016.

I am a British Citizen.

Spouses of British citizens do NOT need to wait for 12 months after receiving an Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). They (spouses of Brits) do need to have 3 years of residency in the UK, and need an ILR (whenver it was issued)

https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-c ... sh-citizen

[noajthan]

Could the professional referee be retired?

Wife must have lived in UK for 5 years or more to be ready to naturalise.

Sorry but thats not right, its actually 3 years of living in the UK for the spouse of a UK national before they can apply for Naturalization not 5. She got ILR in July last year and will have been living in the UK for 3 years in July 2016.

I am a British Citizen.

Spouses of British citizens do NOT need to wait for 12 months after receiving an Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). They (spouses of Brits) do need to have 3 years of residency in the UK, and need an ILR (whenver it was issued)

https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-c ... sh-citizen

You have misunderstood.
And having done all this on behalf of my wife I know all about it.

Yes, to naturalise one needs 3 years of residency. But that alone is not enough.

That period of residency will be wrapped up within the 5 or more years it nowadays takes to get settled status.
That is what I was referring to in PRACTICAL terms of spending 5 years (at least) living in UK. You can't get ILR in 2 or 3 years anymore.

Was wife not living in UK to acquire ILR?
Was she not out and about meeting people and otherwise preparing for citizenship during those previous years?

As for referees, have you checked the official acceptable professions list?

[hoping1]

Im sorry but I think you have misunderstood.

My wife got her ILR in July last year. In July this year she will have been in the UK for 3 years which means she can apply for citizenship in July this year. She applied for her original Fiancée visa before 9 July 2012, (but due to appeal etc) it took until the summer of 2013 before she got her FLR.

For those issued a first Spouse/Partner/Fiancee visa after 9 July 2012 waiting time will be 5 years because spouses/partners will be getting ILR only after 5 years in the UK (not after 2 years as it used to be).

If you’re married to, or the civil partner of, a British citizen, you can apply for citizenship if:

lived in the UK for at least the 3 years before your application is received

you’ve been granted indefinite leave to stay in the UK

Obviously there are more requirements but not relevant to this discussion.

[noajthan]

Im sorry but I think you have misunderstood.

My wife got her ILR in July last year. In July this year she will have been in the UK for 3 years which means she can apply for citizenship in July this year.

For those issued a first Spouse/Partner/Fiancee visa after 9 July 2012 waiting time will be 5 years because spouses/partners will be getting ILR only after 5 years in the UK (not after 2 years as it used to be).

If you’re married to, or the civil partner of, a British citizen, you can apply for citizenship if:

lived in the UK for at least the 3 years before your application is received

you’ve been granted indefinite leave to stay in the UK

Obviously there are more requirements but not relevant to this discussion.

Without knowing the timelines I had assumed wife was here after the 2012 change.
Glad that is cleared up.

However long your wife has happened to spend in UK it would have been prudent to cultivate some acquaintances ahead of time, bearing in mind the clear need for referees when naturalising.

Have you checked the professions list as advised?

[hoping1]

OK timeline explained so now glad cleared up. So she can apply for UK Citizenship in Summer 2016 right?

Have you checked the professions list as advised?

Yes it should be fine thanks.

[noajthan]

OK timeline explained so now glad cleared up. So she can apply for UK Citizenship in Summer 2016 right?

Have you checked the professions list as advised?

Yes it should be fine thanks.

Still slightly puzzled by the timeline.
If wife first arrived in UK sometime in mid-2013 that's after the 2012 rule changes.
When was first UK visa actually issued? Was that before the rule change?

Anyway be that as it may;
as per rules for an applicant with ILR who is married to a BC spouse, apply on a date that ensures the applicant was physically present in UK 3 years (to the day) before the date of application (& for which you have proof, eg stamped passport).

[hoping1]

OK timeline explained so now glad cleared up. So she can apply for UK Citizenship in Summer 2016 right?

Have you checked the professions list as advised?

Yes it should be fine thanks.

Still slightly puzzled by the timeline.
If wife first arrived in UK sometime in mid-2013 that's after the 2012 rule changes.
When was first UK visa actually issued? Was that before the rule change?

Anyway be that as it may;
as per rules for an applicant with ILR who is married to a BC spouse, apply on a date that ensures the applicant was physically present in UK 3 years (to the day) before the date of application (& for which you have proof, eg stamped passport).

Fiancee Visa Applied for shortly before 9 July 2012
Visa Refused
Appeal
Appeal won 2013
Got FLR Aug 2013
Got ILR summer 2015

she was and is under old rules because she applied before 9 July 2012

So she can apply for UK Citizenship in Summer 2016 right?

[noajthan]

Fiancee Visa Applied for shortly before 9 July 2012
...

she was and is under old rules because she applied before 9 July 2012

So she can apply for UK Citizenship in Summer 2016 right?

Yep go for it, ensuring the proof of physical presence test will pass.

[hoping1]

Fiancee Visa Applied for shortly before 9 July 2012
...

she was and is under old rules because she applied before 9 July 2012

So she can apply for UK Citizenship in Summer 2016 right?

Yep go for it, ensuring the proof of physical presence test will pass.

Thanks, what is proof of Physical Presence?

She passes all of the below

She will have lived in the UK for at least the 3 years before she submits the application
spent no more than 270 days outside the UK in those 3 years
spent no more than 90 days outside the UK in the last 12 months

you’re 18 or over
you’re of sound mind, eg you’re able to think and make decisions for yourself
you’re of good character, eg you don’t have a serious or recent criminal record
you’ve met the knowledge of English and life in the UK requirements
you’ve been granted indefinite leave to stay in the UK (this means there’s no specific date that you have to leave) or permanent residence if you’re an EEA national (and you have a permanent residence card or document that shows you have permanent residence)
you meet the residency requirement

[secret.simon]

Thanks, what is proof of Physical Presence?

as per rules for an applicant with ILR who is married to a BC spouse, apply on a date that ensures the applicant was physically present in UK 3 years (to the day) before the date of application (& for which you have proof, eg stamped passport).

This is one requirement that the Home Office does not have discretion over and the application must be denied if this requirement is not met.

So, if, hypothetically, your wife applies on 1st July 2016, she must be able to prove (typically by passport stamps) that she was physically there in the UK on 1st July 2013.