Discrestionary Leave to Remain for my Wife ...Please help!

[Casa]

Obie has mentioned something that's been on my mind too. Visitor visas for a spouse or family members have become increasingly difficult to obtain, due to the high number of overstayers.

[Obie]

It is important to state and stress that i am not seeking to throw any aspersions on the OP for her wife entering with a visitors visa notwithstanding any views that may be taken as to any possible motives. In OP's case, he could not have know that his wife will be pregnant before the end of her holiday, although he is clearly a sexually active person, and her wife is clearly of a reproductive age, and therefore these things can be expected in the majority of cases.

I am associated with matters involving spouses of British Citizens being refused visa, and i am not prepared to fold my hand and see UKVI do this. SO it will be helpful to get an idea of how she succeeded.

[Rayman2010]

@Obie as I said it has always been the intension for my wife to return back to her country, and this is evident in the fact return flights are already booked....

Originally we asked for one month visa ....instead they issued a 6 month multiple entry visa ...her return was based on her caring for her mother ...but upon receiving a 6 month visa, we decided to make arrangements for her mother to be looked after by her aunt ....so as to enable us to spend quality family time together ...

We had no intention of having another baby as we realise the complications this is likely to cause ....our initial change of circumstances was identified at the time of acknowledging the pregnancy, with that view we considered the implications on our British child ...and we came to the conclusion that it would be in the best interest of both our daughter and our unborn baby to remain in the UK....at not before that situation was we intending on my wife overtaking her welcome.....

[Rayman2010]

Yes we have been married for over 3 years ....

The presence of my daughter's mother in the UK will help my daughter develop intellectually, organize her perceptions, and enable our daughtrr to think logically, and other positive factors such as develop a conscience, become self-reliant, and also develop coping mechanisms (for stress, frustration, fear, and worry), and form healthy and intimate relationships for later life.

On the assumption that my wife does return to her home country to give birth to our child, it is inevitable that an application for our child to be made with regards to British citizenship through descent. The timescale for processing such application is at stated to be ‘undetermined’ due to the nature of all the relevant checks that are to be made by the home office, with that in mind, the secretary of state needs to consider the time and cost wasted on such checks and as such these can be avoided if our child is born in the UK.

[noajthan]

@Obie as I said it has always been the intension for my wife to return back to her country, and this is evident in the fact return flights are already booked....

Originally we asked for one month visa ....instead they issued a 6 month multiple entry visa ...her return was based on her caring for her mother ...but upon receiving a 6 month visa, we decided to make arrangements for her mother to be looked after by her aunt ....so as to enable us to spend quality family time together ...

...

Stating intention to stay for a visit of one month (for one purpose) then staying longer (and for another purpose) may have consequences for future visa applications;
certainly consequences for future visit visas (should the need arise) as past statements and behaviour are taken into consideration.

The caseworker will be taking a view on the best interests of all parties too, within the framework of the legislation.

[noajthan]

Yes we have been married for over 3 years ....

...

On the assumption that my wife does return to her home country to give birth to our child, it is inevitable that an application for our child to be made with regards to British citizenship through descent. The timescale for processing such application is at stated to be ‘undetermined’ due to the nature of all the relevant checks that are to be made by the home office, with that in mind, the secretary of state needs to consider the time and cost wasted on such checks and as such these can be avoided if our child is born in the UK.

Time and cost is not 'wasted'; it is constructive effort to crosscheck and verify an application that you pay for via the fee.
And the privilege of citizenship is not a 'visa' so different regulations and requirements have to be fulfilled - and thus checked.

[Obie]

Thanks for the information RE: How she was able to convince them to issue the visa.

In regards to the other matters your mentioned, suffice to say that life will be very easy for me if UKVI thinks in the manner in which you do.

When it come to immigration, there is never any logical reasoning or compassion or basic family values and the need that it is the right of a child to have both parents in their upbringing.

The only thing they think of is numbers.

[Wanderer]

The presence of my daughter's mother in the UK will help my daughter develop intellectually, organize her perceptions, and enable our daughtrr to think logically, and other positive factors such as develop a conscience, become self-reliant, and also develop coping mechanisms (for stress, frustration, fear, and worry), and form healthy and intimate relationships for later life.

With the utmost respect, I feel you are using this as an excuse to justify the initally expedient but ultimately disastarious path you seem hell bent of undertaking. Kids don't need all that, sure, it's nice and it's very responsible of you to consdier it, but taking this stance you may well be ultimatley creating an unstable environment as the child gets older and more receptive, not only that, your wifes status in limbo for the forseeable bringing stress on the relationship.

However, this is not a relationships board, but even just considering the immigration perspective what you plan makes no sense mid-long term for everyone caught up in it.

[Rayman2010]

Acknowledged but why issue a 6 month visa if we only requested 1 months stay ? And question us on our freedom to stay longer when that visa clearly state we can ? The fact that we did is our choosing because of the length of visa ... but the fact of the changes in circumstance was not our choosing ....

[Wanderer]

When it come to immigration, there is never any logical reasoning or compassion or basic family values and the need that it is the right of a child to have both parents in their upbringing.

So you think that what the OP is planning should be overlooked? I grant you re: what you say wrt upbringing but to be fair the OP has initially engaged in foul play so is it not fair the referee steps in and awards the penalty?

I've got all Eric Cantona.....

[Obie]

And the privilege of citizenship

In the case of OP's child it will not be a privilege, it will be an entitlement. The Statute provides that he or she will be a citizen.

Parliament does not confer any discretion on the Secretary of State in that regards.

In theory and as a matter of international, that child should not have any hindrance placed in the way of their arrival in the United Kingdom.

A period of 12 months, will in my view be wholly disproportionate.

[Obie]

Acknowledged but why issue a 6 month visa if we only requested 1 months stay ? And question us on our freedom to stay longer when that visa clearly state we can ? The fact that we did is our choosing because of the length of visa ... but the fact of the changes in circumstance was not our choosing ....

As a matter of law, the Secretary of State will issue a 6 months Entry Clearance to a Successful visitors visa applicant.

[noajthan]

And the privilege of citizenship

In the case of OP's child it will not be a privilege, it will be an entitlement. The Statute provides that he or she will be a citizen.

Parliament does not confer any discretion on the Secretary of State in that regards.

...

A privilege in the wider sense; one which still needs checking and validating even to confirm an entitlement is justified.
So OP's concern to save money for the SoS and British taxpayer is misplaced.

[Rayman2010]

Rayman2010 wrote:
The presence of my daughter's mother in the UK will help my daughter develop intellectually, organize her perceptions, and enable our daughtrr to think logically, and other positive factors such as develop a conscience, become self-reliant, and also develop coping mechanisms (for stress, frustration, fear, and worry), and form healthy and intimate relationships for later life

The above is an extraction from the government website which discusses the welfare of children. And on how the need for both parents are to be together or the need of the mother in a child's life and the positive impact ....

It's no excuse but child welfare specialist are much more acknowledging of the requirements of children then we all are....

[Wanderer]

Rayman2010 wrote:
The presence of my daughter's mother in the UK will help my daughter develop intellectually, organize her perceptions, and enable our daughtrr to think logically, and other positive factors such as develop a conscience, become self-reliant, and also develop coping mechanisms (for stress, frustration, fear, and worry), and form healthy and intimate relationships for later life

The above is an extraction from the government website which discusses the welfare of children. And on how the need for both parents are to be together or the need of the mother in a child's life and the positive impact ....

It's no excuse but child welfare specialist are much more acknowledging of the requirements of children then we all are....

Tree hugging claptrap I'm afraid, you're just waiting for the answer you want, and you'll most likely get it after 30 posts.....

I'm outta here.....

[Casa]

Has she not been prevented from instilling those values & character building in the home country?

[Obie]

And the privilege of citizenship

In the case of OP's child it will not be a privilege, it will be an entitlement. The Statute provides that he or she will be a citizen.

Parliament does not confer any discretion on the Secretary of State in that regards.

...

A privilege in the wider sense; one which still needs checking and validating even to confirm an entitlement is justified.
So OP's concern to save money for the SoS and British taxpayer is misplaced.

Yes i agree with the fact that the State has an obligation to protect the integrity of the system, and ensure that passport is only issued to people that the state is confident are citizen. That contention is unimpeachable.

However the state cannot take forever, and they must ensure that citizens are not treated differently because of their geographical location or the fact that they fall under Section 2. This will be wrong, as a matter of law, and it will create an hierarchy of citizenship, which is wrong.

In nearly all respect, citizens by descent and those that are otherwise by decent have similar rights.

The purpose of stopping the second generation born overseas from acquiring citizenship, is to ensure that citizenship are not issued to many generations of people with no links to the UK.

The UK government must ensure they deal with them in the most expeditious of manner having regards to the risk of fraud, which can be minimized by seeking a DNA test in cases of suspicion of fraud.

[Rayman2010]

Ok thanks for your support ...on a final note ...I am a british citizen and so is my daughter ...and we as family stand United and we will get through this ....

[Rayman2010]

Sorry obie ...that wasn't meant for you but rather the one that claimed "tree hugging claptrap" and that I'm Lilley to get the response I want after 30 posts.

Obie I see your someone who knows very much what your talking about but I would really like to know whether there is a valid case here. And I respect your opinion very much

[Rayman2010]

Has she not been prevented from instilling those values & character building in the home country?

No not at 23 months old ...she still a lot of development to do but until then she will develop to the criteria in the uk.

[Obie]

I have made no secret of the fact that i believe in post entry English language test, rather than pre-entry ones, and that family life should not be put on hold because of a person's linguistics capabilities.

There are places in Scandinavia, that provides integration and language courses, for immigrants and refugee, I see the model in Sweden and FInland, they are working very well. Whiles those nations are increasing funding, the UK government seems to be reducing funding for English language classes.

I was almost reduced to tears when the case of Bibi came up. But it is the law and one has to try and find adaptation techniques to it.

I felt the law was too harsh on Mr Bibi, who has been in a very long term relationship with his wife, and now she is prevented from returning home, because her husband could not pass an English language test.

Even a person with a heart of stone will sympathise with them.

I have expressed a view on this matter. I have told you what the law permits and prohibits. What can and cannot be done.

I am not sure I can say a great deal more than what i have already said. The decision is yours and yours to make.

Only you know about your family situation, I am just a forum moderator.

[Wanderer]

There are places in Scandinavia, that provides integration and language courses, for immigrants and refugee, I see the model in Sweden and FInland, they are working very well. Whiles those nations are increasing funding, the UK government seems to be reducing funding for English language classes.

I'm relocating to København week after next and you should see the language school test, very onerous, one is entitled to 250 hours of Danish language tuition to be completed with 18 months, free.

I'm doing it even though I don't have to.

250 hours is a shitload of work though!

[Obie]

With Brexit you may well need to in future.

The point is, there are provision for taking it in Denmark when you enter. It is readily available and free.

The position is very different in the United Kingdom. The government has withdrawn funding from institutions that provide these services.

So the example you gave is good.

I remember dealing with a woman a few years back, who had to travel 60 miles from where she resides for the nearest UK approved English language provider and exam council.

I found it most outrageous, the immense barrier that was placed on the family.

Then the woman gave birth to the couples child, and the very nice gentle man had to start over again as the financial requirement went up.

Then she finally passed it, applied for Entry clearance, was refused and had to go for an appeal, by the time of the appeal decision, there was a 3rd child. No joke, and a further application for that child was refused as the person has not earned the requirement.

The guys naturalisation was issued 2 days after his child was born.

Such a sad situation.

These Pre-Entry English Language test has had immense negative effect on people's lives.

One can perfectly understand the OP's anguish, and fear that he may not be able to maintain the unity of his family and give his daughter and expected child the best in life.

Why should the OP's ability to have his children live with him depends on his wife's ability to learn English.

Especially in the case of British Children. Something about that does not bode well with me. I find it most disturbing.

[Rayman2010]

With Brexit you may well need to in future.

The point is, there are provision for taking it in Denmark when you enter. It is readily available and free.

The position is very different in the United Kingdom. The government has withdrawn funding from institutions that provide these services.

So the example you gave is good.

I remember dealing with a woman a few years back, who had to travel 60 miles from where she resides for the nearest UK approved English language provider and exam council.

I found it most outrageous, the immense barrier that was placed on the family.

Then the woman gave birth to the couples child, and the very nice gentle man had to start over again as the financial requirement went up.

Then she finally passed it, applied for Entry clearance, was refused and had to go for an appeal, by the time of the appeal decision, there was a 3rd child. No joke, and a further application for that child was refused as the person has not earned the requirement.

The guys naturalisation was issued 2 days after his child was born.

Such a sad situation.

These Pre-Entry English Language test has had immense negative effect on people's lives.

One can perfectly understand the OP's anguish, and fear that he may not be able to maintain the unity of his family and give his daughter and expected child the best in life.

Why should the OP's ability to have his children live with him depends on his wife's ability to learn English.

Especially in the case of British Children. Something about that does not bode well with me. I find it most disturbing.

I would to thank you dearly for your much valued advise ...and although you gave the pros and cons ....I'm confident to say that there is a case that I can stand a chance against in order to keep my family together ....once again thank you sir.

[Obie]

As my colleague correctly pointed out. The use of the NHS can merit an automatic refusal under S-LTRP 2.3. Especially if the fee exceed £1000.

For maternity care it may well exceed that, so you must bear that in mind.

Furthermore, if things don't work out, your wife may never be able to obtain a visitors visa again.