Born in the West Indies when it was a British Colony???

[abynoe]

Hello I was wondering if someone can help me to understand a certain situation. I was once told that if you had a parent that was born in a West Indian country (Jamaica or Barbados) while it was a British colony that they were born as a British citizen. So I was wondering if they still have that status and if I am eligible for British citizenship by descent. I just want to know if there is any way of becoming a citizen of the Uk and how far down the family tree I have to go.


Thanks

[ppron747]

I fear that you were told that by an incurable optimist. If it were correct, it would mean that everyone in Jamaica over the age of 44 - or over 39 in Barbados - would still be holding a British passport...

It is absolutely true that people born in British colonies were British. But it is equally true that the vast majority of them lost British nationality, automatically, on the day their colony became independent and they - also automatically - acquired the citizenship of the newly-independent state.

The only way that someone born in Jamaica or Barbados could have retained British nationality on independence would have been he/she had a father or paternal grandfather born, registered or naturalised in the UK itself, or in a place that remained a British colony.

Sorry....

[abynoe]

Sure a second opinion would help. Any kind of info to me is good info.



Thanks

[JAJ]

Sure a second opinion would help. Any kind of info to me is good info.

Even if it's wrong?

Paul's post is correct and there is nothing significant that can be added to it.

[Rogerio]

Sure a second opinion would help. Any kind of info to me is good info.



Thanks

Paul is one of the most knowlegeable guys here - his post is correct. That's a 3rd opinion !

[Aloevera2]

yeah paul knows whats he talking abut and he is very helpful

. That's a 4th opion !

[jwood1185]

I know this is an old one, but I did a search and this one is perfect for my question, as the first poster has much in common with my situation.

My father was born in Jamaica in 1929, and emigrated to America in 1945. I was born in the US in 1985, and am an American citizen. Moving into the realm of hypothetical...

If my grandfather WAS born in the UK (I don't know if he was or not)- am I entitled to any sort of citizenship by descent, and what did the earlier poster mean by tie (i.e. what would I need?)

[JAJ]

I know this is an old one, but I did a search and this one is perfect for my question, as the first poster has much in common with my situation.

My father was born in Jamaica in 1929, and emigrated to America in 1945. I was born in the US in 1985, and am an American citizen. Moving into the realm of hypothetical...

If my grandfather WAS born in the UK (I don't know if he was or not)- am I entitled to any sort of citizenship by descent, and what did the earlier poster mean by tie (i.e. what would I need?)

Have you checked to see if you are a Jamaican citizen by descent, or at least eligible to apply for Jamaican citizenship?

http://www.constitution-and-rights.com/ ... nship.html

With a Jamaican passport (Commonwealth country) you would be entitled to an Ancestry Visa if you have a U.K. born grandparent. This allows you to move to Britain to work and become a permanent resident and British citizen at a later date.

The other benefit a Jamaican passport would give you is that you could go to the U.K. for a 2 year working holiday.

All information at http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk

One more thing. If you were to find out that your grandfather was born in Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland, you would be eligible for Irish citizenship which allows permanent residence in the United Kingdom.

[jwood1185]

Have you checked to see if you are a Jamaican citizen by descent, or at least eligible to apply for Jamaican citizenship?

http://www.constitution-and-rights.com/ ... nship.html

With a Jamaican passport (Commonwealth country) you would be entitled to an Ancestry Visa if you have a U.K. born grandparent. This allows you to move to Britain to work and become a permanent resident and British citizen at a later date.

The other benefit a Jamaican passport would give you is that you could go to the U.K. for a 2 year working holiday.

All information at http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk

One more thing. If you were to find out that your grandfather was born in Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland, you would be eligible for Irish citizenship which allows permanent residence in the United Kingdom.

Regarding Jamaican by descent: Almost certainly. My father died in 1993, but I still have his old British passport (in it, it is written "otherwise than by descent" but this was in 1945- thus obsolete). I've come to the conclusion that Jamaican is pretty direct, and British would be a stretch (you didn't mention my potential eligibility for that, unless I missed it).

I don't know where my grandfather was born, but the Ireland comment you made is very helpful. It was almost certainly in that region, and I think it was Britain, but I need to make sure through records that are currently in the possession of other relatives. You seem to think Ireland contains an easier track, should it be relevant- could you tell me how easy? How far is the limit before ancestry no longer becomes useful? Thank you very much, JAJ.

Britain is still on the table, as well, barring evidence to the contrary. I'm now a bit anxious to trace my ancestry- apparently more possibilities exist than I was previously aware of.

[JAJ]

Regarding Jamaican by descent: Almost certainly. My father died in 1993, but I still have his old British passport (in it, it is written "otherwise than by descent" but this was in 1945- thus obsolete). I've come to the conclusion that Jamaican is pretty direct, and British would be a stretch (you didn't mention my potential eligibility for that, unless I missed it).

A British grandparent does not usually give a direct claim to British citizenship, sorry. Best you can normally hope for is an Ancestry Visa if you have a Commonwealth country passport => Jamaican passport + British born grandparent is enough, American passport does not qualify.

But do bear in mind that for the Ancestry Visa does require a grandparent born in the United Kingdom.

I don't know where my grandfather was born, but the Ireland comment you made is very helpful. It was almost certainly in that region, and I think it was Britain, but I need to make sure through records that are currently in the possession of other relatives. You seem to think Ireland contains an easier track, should it be relevant- could you tell me how easy? How far is the limit before ancestry no longer becomes useful?

The Republic of Ireland has a different set of nationality laws to the United Kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_nationality_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law

Once again. If you can register as an Irish citizen and get an Irish passport, you can enter Britain as a permanent resident. And after 5 years, (or 3 if you marry a British citizen in the meantime) you could become a naturalised British citizen.

[JAJ]

Incidentally, if your paternal grandfather was born in the U.K. and your grandparents were married, your own Jamaica born father would have retained his British nationality at independence.

However, and this is where you would be out of luck, is that on 1 January 1983 your father would have become a British citizen by descent and hence you would not have acquired British citizenship when you were born in 1985.

But do you have any older siblings born in 1982 or earlier? If so, and presuming your own parents were married, then if you can show that your grandfather was born in :

- the United Kingdom,
- Isle of Man,
- Channel Islands,
- the Republic of Ireland before 1 April 1922,
- or a place that is still a British territory today,

then they might well have a claim to British citizenship themselves.

[jwood1185]

Incidentally, if your paternal grandfather was born in the U.K. and your grandparents were married, your own Jamaica born father would have retained his British nationality at independence.

However, and this is where you would be out of luck, is that on 1 January 1983 your father would have become a British citizen by descent and hence you would not have acquired British citizenship when you were born in 1985.

But do you have any older siblings born in 1982 or earlier? If so, and presuming your own parents were married, then if you can show that your grandfather was born in :

- the United Kingdom,
- Isle of Man,
- Channel Islands,
- the Republic of Ireland before 1 April 1922,
- or a place that is still a British territory today,

then they might well have a claim to British citizenship themselves.

Ah. I was wondering how the many British nationality laws came together. That response answers my question well. I have one half-brother, from my father's previous marriage, who would fall under that stipulation.

Everyone was married (and I believe the certificates are in the possession of the aforementioned relatives, so that shouldn't be an issue).

So, in closing, it seems I definitely have a shot at Jamaican citizenship. Pending the birth locations of my paternal grandparents, we'll see about Irish or anything else. I've gotten more information here in the last hour than I got from going all over the web for three months. JAJ, I owe you my thanks.

[JAJ]

One point about Jamaican citizenship to be aware of. If you do become a Jamaican citizen then you will not be entitled to American consular protection while in that country, if you were to get into trouble there.

In particular, you would need to investigate if Jamaica would oblige you to enter and leave Jamaica on a valid Jamaican passport.

[jwood1185]

One point about Jamaican citizenship to be aware of. If you do become a Jamaican citizen then you will not be entitled to American consular protection while in that country, if you were to get into trouble there.

In particular, you would need to investigate if Jamaica would oblige you to enter and leave Jamaica on a valid Jamaican passport.

That particular point (consular protection) I was aware of- I believe it applies to every Western nation (or at least most). With regard to the passport, I will check that out, but it is of secondary importance at the moment- I'm especially interested in a possible EU citizenship first. If that were to fail (i.e. my grandfather/grandmother were both Jamaican, or for that matter British, apparently), I would at that point focus my efforts on the Commonwealth citizenship possibility (the possibilities are way too expensive to attack simultaneously, unfortunately).

I'm very lucky, I should note, to carry an American passport. I'm able to move around relatively freely, and it's a great asset in traveling to many places. An EU citizenship, I feel, would do two things- first, allow me to travel almost completely unrestricted throughout the majority of Europe, which I hope to visit soon after I obtain my MA in 2009. Second, it would allow me to live there, should I so choose later in life. Obviously, a Commonwealth citizenship such as that offered by Jamaica would offer options almost as good.

It would also allow for a nice escape route should the world come to an end (just kidding on that one, of course).

Edit- Realization just struck me- That could mean a possible triple citizenship, theoretically in the EU, US, and the Commonwealth. Wow.

[JAJ]

That particular point (consular protection) I was aware of- I believe it applies to every Western nation (or at least most).

As a principle of international law, it's been around since 1930:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Nationality_Rule

With regard to the passport, I will check that out, but it is of secondary importance at the moment- I'm especially interested in a possible EU citizenship first. If that were to fail (i.e. my grandfather/grandmother were both Jamaican, or for that matter British, apparently), I would at that point focus my efforts on the Commonwealth citizenship possibility (the possibilities are way too expensive to attack simultaneously, unfortunately).

Not clear where you get the view that it's "expensive" from.

I'm very lucky, I should note, to carry an American passport. I'm able to move around relatively freely, and it's a great asset in traveling to many places. An EU citizenship, I feel, would do two things- first, allow me to travel almost completely unrestricted throughout the majority of Europe, which I hope to visit soon after I obtain my MA in 2009. Second, it would allow me to live there, should I so choose later in life.

You can travel pretty much freely through Europe on your American passport. Obviously, living there is another question.

If you do find you have a claim to citizenship in Ireland, for example, make sure to pursue it actively as the law could always be changed to close it down to new applicants.

Obviously, a Commonwealth citizenship such as that offered by Jamaica would offer options almost as good.

Not really. Jamaica citizenship just opens up the option of the U.K. Ancestry Visa and Working Holiday Visa. Other than that it doesn't really open doors in Commonwealth countries, and obviously isn't all that easy to travel on without visas.

Jamaica is a member of CARICOM so maybe the Jamaica passport gives some rights in other member states:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CARICOM


A further thought on your grandfather. You should find out what the circumstances of his presence in Jamaica were. If by some chance he was a U.K. recruited Crown Servant or some similar service, your father might have become a British citizen "otherwise than by descent" in 1983, which would help you get British citizenship.

A further possibility for you to investigate. Do let us know how you get on.

[jwood1185]

Not clear where you get the view that it's "expensive" from.

I mean with getting the appropriate documents (not sure what it will take to get relevant birth certificates, anything I'm missing, etc). Upon applying, the passport itself, if successful, would be a few hundred dollars (at least, that's what it was to get a British passport in America, which is now no longer a primary goal). I suppose, however, that I didn't think it through fully- I know exact dates for my father's birth, emigration, marriage, and death, and have the relevant documents for all of them. Jamaica wouldn't be too hard, really. It would be the EU possibility, probably, where I'd be spending several hundred (if successful). Anyway, perhaps it's cheaper than I anticipate.

You can travel pretty much freely through Europe on your American passport. Obviously, living there is another question.

If you do find you have a claim to citizenship in Ireland, for example, make sure to pursue it actively as the law could always be changed to close it down to new applicants.

If I find I have a claim to citizenship in Ireland, I will get the relevant info immediately. I went to France and Greece on school study abroad trips in undergrad, and that was pretty simple, but staying there for any extended time would, as you say, be a little easier as an EU national. Being able to do this is rapidly becoming a pet project of mine, which unfortunately is going to cause me to do more thinking than action. The records are in Tampa, and I am in Delaware. Further, they're in storage, pending completion of a renovation to my aunt and uncle's house. My father did a lot of geneological work, though, and I don't expect it will be too much of a tracing issue once I actually get my hands on it. If it is, I'll be contacting authorities in Jamaica first, I assume...

Not really. Jamaica citizenship just opens up the option of the U.K. Ancestry Visa and Working Holiday Visa. Other than that it doesn't really open doors in Commonwealth countries, and obviously isn't all that easy to travel on without visas.

Jamaica is a member of CARICOM so maybe the Jamaica passport gives some rights in other member states:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CARICOM

Again, enlightening. It seems that my American passport is just as good for travel anywhere in CARICOM, without the accompanying nationality red tape. That is definitely something to take into consideration. Ancestry visas may be an issue, but it appears any Jamaican citizenship may have to be tied to any future undetermined avenues I might have in Britain, assuming I don't get any EU citizenship. Thanks for that one.

A further thought on your grandfather. You should find out what the circumstances of his presence in Jamaica were. If by some chance he was a U.K. recruited Crown Servant or some similar service, your father might have become a British citizen "otherwise than by descent" in 1983, which would help you get British citizenship.

A further possibility for you to investigate. Do let us know how you get on.

My aunt, who is from a similar area of Jamaica but unrelated, mentioned that she knew of a "Justice of the Peace" with my father's last name around the time my grandfather should have been alive. Do you think that might be "Crown Service", or is that just a minor magistrate (or is a minor magistrate "Crown Service"?)

Corollary thought- if this unknown JoP was recruited in Jamaica, would that count at all?

It seems every answer engenders further questions. However, the research is definitely becoming more worth it with each passing post. Thanks again

[JAJ]

My aunt, who is from a similar area of Jamaica but unrelated, mentioned that she knew of a "Justice of the Peace" with my father's last name around the time my grandfather should have been alive. Do you think that might be "Crown Service", or is that just a minor magistrate (or is a minor magistrate "Crown Service"?)

No chance - Crown Service applies to service in the U.K. military or government and being sent from there to Jamaica, eg as part of the colonial administration.