Self employment - where can I get *facts*?

[gotquestions]

There are so many contradictory statements about what kind of business activities a Tier 2 visa holder can engage in.

I've seen some people say outright that self employment or business activity is not allowed, for example, with no references -- but this contradicts my reading of the immigration rules: https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... tion-rules . The relevant rules:

"employment" unless the contrary intention appears, includes paid and unpaid employment,
paid and unpaid work placements undertaken as part of a course or period of study, self
employment and engaging in business or any professional activity.

But this is merely a definition, which must be taken in the context of the actual conditions of the Tier 2 visa, where section 245HC(d)(iii) states:

no employment except:
(1) working for the sponsor...
(2) supplementary employment,
(3) voluntary work

And supplementary employment is defined as:

Under Part 6A of these Rules, "supplementary employment" means other employment in a
job which appears on the Shortage Occupation List in Appendix K, or in the same profession
and at the same professional level as that which the migrant is being sponsored to do provided
that:

(a) the migrant remains working for the Sponsor in the employment that the Certificate of
Sponsorship Checking Service records that the migrant is being sponsored to do,

(b) the other employment does not exceed 20 hours per week and takes place outside of
the hours when the migrant is contracted to work for the Sponsor in the employment
the migrant is being sponsored to do.

Nowhere in the definition of supplementary employment does it say you may not be self employed. It uses the phrase "employment in a job" -- and employment was previously defined as including "self employment". In effect, my reading of 245HC(d)(iii) is saying "you may not be [self employed] unless you are [self employed for less than 20 hours per week in the same profession and same professional level as your sponsored job]". The only thing left open to interpretation is what "same professional level" means - does anybody have a more concrete reference to this?

What I'm specifically interested in:

1. As a professional software developer, can I build a website with free information on it in my spare time?

2. Can I place advertising or affiliate links on the website and derive an income from those links? Is this a business activity or self employment? Is this allowed under the conditions of the visa? [Please refer to actual case data or rules.]

3. If not -- if I have created such a website prior to obtaining my tier 2 visa am I expected to remove the advertising or affiliate links, or stop maintaining the site, etc.? Similarly, if I am a director of a company that makes a profit and I have to answer a few emails from time to time, am I expected to step down as director before applying for a tier 2 visa?

4. If so -- surely this is absurd? Under these rules Facebook and Google could never have been created by migrants in their part time (and please don't suggest that the Tier 1 visas are suitable -- many very successful startups and part-time lifestyle businesses were bootstrapped with a few pennies, you don't need 200K GBP to start a business!)

5. If it really is this nuts - does anybody know of a legal way (I am not trying to break the law or avoid tax) to make it possible for me to do something constructive in my spare time using my skills that may generate an income, or does the government expect me to sit in front of the telly doing nothing useful and not contributing to the economy except through the sponsored job for 5 years while I wait for ILR? Don't they understand that the way I got to be a highly skilled software developer was by using my skills?! I didn't learn them on the job!

Can anybody recommend a qualified expert (happy to pay) who can answer these questions definitively? (Please don't bother answering if you're just going to write an opinion with no concrete case references or data to back it up.)

[dialectic]

I found this question. I think it would be interesting to know an answer for this... if someone has any info/experience

[CGIguy]

I know this is an old thread, but I'm currently dealing with the same thing, I still can't believe how this can be a thing. If you're required to step remove any penny-generating online entities, step down as a director, etc, that's absolutely insane.

How can this massive issue not yield more input or experience from other people?

Regardless of how the HO wants to define it, self-employment IS employment. They're one and the same. If the HO wants to define employment as only a PAYE situation, then they're the only ones in the world that would define the term "employment" that way.

The policy guidance simply says:

226. You do not need to inform us of any supplementary employment, as long as it is:
 in either a job which is included on the Shortage Occupation List in Appendix K of the Immigration Rules or a job in the same profession and at the same professional level as the work for which your Certificate of Sponsorship was assigned; and
 no more than 20 hours per week; and
 outside of the normal working hours for which your Certificate of Sponsorship was assigned.
In addition, you must continue to work for your sponsor in the job recorded on your Certificate of Sponsorship.

No person would EVER understand that to exclude self-employment, and to find the specs that outlaw self employment you have to dig for more obscure sources. Not a realistic expectation, when the the "Supplementary Employment" section only outlines the above.

Any more info or experiences with regards to this?

[vinny]

See also discussion in Extra Income thread.

[CGIguy]

I've read that a few times, and it still doesn't make sense. Lots of people insist that self-employment is strictly forbidden, but nowhere in the official policy guidance does it prohibit it.

In fact, the term "self-employment" does not exist anywhere in the entire 75 page document.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 1_2016.pdf

[noajthan]

...

Regardless of how the HO wants to define it, self-employment IS employment. They're one and the same. If the HO wants to define employment as only a PAYE situation, then they're the only ones in the world that would define the term "employment" that way.

The policy guidance simply says:

226. You do not need to inform us of any supplementary employment, as long as it is:
 in either a job which is included on the Shortage Occupation List in Appendix K of the Immigration Rules or a job in the same profession and at the same professional level as the work for which your Certificate of Sponsorship was assigned;
...

No person would EVER understand that to exclude self-employment, and to find the specs that outlaw self employment you have to dig for more obscure sources. Not a realistic expectation, when the the "Supplementary Employment" section only outlines the above.

Any more info or experiences with regards to this?

In many areas of UK immigration law, what one may consider common sense, self-evident facts or normal business practice does not apply.
Simply assuming it does or demanding that it does or should apply will not fly.

If a visa has certain requirements they have to be met, especially if its a requirement with no discretion applicable.

My understanding of "job" in this context means a paid job as a hired employee with tax paid on the PAYE basis.
So I would understand it to exclude self-employment. Perhaps its a cultural and/or linguistic nuance.

Anyone is ofcourse free to proceed as they see fit, to submit associated evidence for any further visa application and to take the outcome that results.
That is the ultimate acid test.

Alternately, if you want to try your hand at self-employment in UK perhaps one of the T1 family of visas would be appropriate.

[CGIguy]

In many areas of UK immigration law, what one may consider common sense, self-evident facts or normal business practice does not apply.
Simply assuming it does or demanding that it does or should apply will not fly.

If a visa has certain requirements they have to be met, especially if its a requirement with no discretion applicable.

My understanding of "job" in this context means a paid job as a hired employee with tax paid on the PAYE basis.
So I would understand it to exclude self-employment. Perhaps its a cultural and/or linguistic nuance.

Anyone is ofcourse free to proceed as they see fit, to submit associated evidence for any further visa application and to take the outcome that results.
That is the ultimate acid test.

Alternately, if you want to try your hand at self-employment in UK perhaps one of the T1 family of visas would be appropriate.

job noun (EMPLOYMENT): the regular work that a person does to earn money:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/job

It doesn't matter if you're a plumber paid in cash, a standard employee of a company and on the PAYE system, or a contract-based consultant. A job is a job is a job. If the Home Office wants to define it more specifically, they need to do so SOMEWHERE in that 75 page Tier 2 Policy Guidance document. Especially if it's the sort of thing that can result in termination of your visa, or denial of your ILR. It's insane that they can sabotage your family's lives based on rules that aren't mentioned anywhere in the Policy Guidance.

[Frontier Mole]

By all means go ahead and buck the system, just a couple of pointers you might want to consider:
Tier 2 General is designed to bring skilled workers to the UK. As a skilled worker you are Sponsored to undertake that roll and are given certain other concessions to work for other organisations either under either the secondary or supplementary guidance.
At no point does it confer the right to undertake self employment. You are also right that it does not specifically state self employment is forbidden BUT legislation does not need to list allowed and not allowed. It does specifically state in this case what is allowed.

Remember the word WORKER - not freelancing, not contacting, not business owner, not self employed.

The case worker guidance is a bit clearer

This page tells caseworkers about the conditions that an applicant must meet if they are granted leave in a Tier 2 category of the points-based system.
Applicants granted entry clearance in a Tier 2 category are subject to the following conditions:
 they cannot take employment except:
o working for the sponsor in the job recorded on their certificate of sponsorship (CoS) o supplementary employment
o voluntary work
o playing for their national side when they are in the UK, playing in British University
and College Sport (BUCS) competitions, or doing temporary additional work as a
sports broadcaster – for the Tier 2 (Sportsperson) category
 they cannot use public funds

So the question is do you take a chance and carry on down a path that once discovered will lead to your main source of income being denied to you and potentially being removed from the UK. Your call.