Anyone on a spouse settlement visa from India?

[parvez]

My wife is applying from India and needs some advice please.

We had a religous marriage ceremony first and obtained a 'Nikah' certificate. Then we registered the marriage in my wife's town as required by Indian Laws and were issued with 2 stamped, true copies of the "Memorandum of Marriage" document. These two documents together, prove the validity of our marriage in India. So we submitted the original Nikah certificate and one stamped, true copy of the Memorandum of Marriage document as evidence of our relationship with the application.

However, the British Deputy High Commision's officers have invited my wife for an interview and asked her to bring the original "Memorandum of Marriage" document with her to the interview. We were not issued with this, and upon querything this with the issuing authority in India and solicitors, we have been advised that the original is always retained by the registrar and cannot be given to anyone.

We have submitted other evidence of our relationship too (eg: photographs from our wedding ceremonies, wedding invitation cards, receipts of venues booked for wedding ceremonies, receipts of hotels we stayed at together in India after our wedding, engagement photos from 3 years ago, greeting cards/letters we exchanged before our marriage, email correspondence etc)

Is there anyone out there who has come to the UK on a spouse settlement visa recently? Does anyone know if there is a way obtaining access to the original Memorandum of Marriage document in India, even if it is just for the purposes of the interview and could be returned afterwards? I would have thought that as the copy we submitted with the application was a stamped, (certified?) true copy, that would have been sufficient to prove the validity of our marriage?

Thanks in advance

[fizz]

Hi Parvez

Not sure about the original, when i got married abroad we got the nikkah certificate then got registered and were given a certificate which looked like the original. also when we applied my wife wasnt called for an interview, she just got the visa. Hope this helps.

[thsths]

However, the British Deputy High Commision's officers have invited my wife for an interview and asked her to bring the original "Memorandum of Marriage" document with her to the interview. We were not issued with this, and upon querything this with the issuing authority in India and solicitors, we have been advised that the original is always retained by the registrar and cannot be given to anyone.

I cannot comment about the situation in India, but in Germany the procedure is the same. The original marriage license always remains with the registrar. Only certified copies and international marriage licenses (which are essentially translated copies) are issued.

I was afraid this would clash with the British desire to see "originals", but it was never an issue. I think as long as the copy is certified by the issuing registrar, it is considered equivalent to the original.

The letter is most likely a form letter not completely suitable for the occasion. Our letter ask us to bring a long list of documents, some of which they already had, and some of which were not applicable. Incompetency in this regard is quite common, I am afraid.

[desperado]

my suggestion would be is to get a letter from issuing authority that they hold the original and the government do not give out the original and that they give out only the certified copy.

Get a letter from issuing autority in india like that. Also ask them to make that letter like a reference letter. ie. If you have any further question then please contact us and get the contact details of issuing authority and the person who signed it.

To get the letter, you need to tell the issuing authority in india that UK consulate is not giving the visa because of this and get a letter from issuing authority addressed to UK consulate.

That should help resolve your problem. Provide this letter and certified copies of marriage certificate to UK consulate and they will accept it.

All the best!

[parvez]

Thanks for all the responses people!

The issuing authority are adamant that the certified copies that they have issued are sufficient for visa purposes and that these have always been accepted by the British High Commission in the past. I guess only time will tell in my wife's case - her interview is next Friday. My wife intends to take the 2nd true copy with her to the interview and explain the situation to them. Hopefully it will work out...

I have even attemped to clarify the situation to the Deputy British High Commission's Visa section in Mumbai by email, but they still wish to see the original.

Thanks for the suggestion desperado - I have already tried asking the issuing the authority to give me in writing what they are trying to tell me, but they say that overrides the rules and they're not willing to do that.

[desperado]

oh man! you are complicating things. The visa officers blindly stick with the word 'original', 'original' and 'original'. They will never listen or never back down from it.

Don't take your marriage certificate to consulate saying "certified copy". They won't even see it and they will blindly say we need "original". Even if you build up the case and explain everything they would still say, I understand all that but we need original.

According to indian issuing authority, the "certified copy" is the "original" copy.

So don't even mention to the consulate here is a certified copy or anything else. What you have is the original. Just give the documents saying here are the originals.

How did this whole thing about "certified copy" come about?

The UK consulate wouldn't have known it is a "certified copy" unless you tell them. The marriage certificate issued to you is the original.

Its all a communication gap. Indians call it "certified copy" because it is as good as original according to them. British won't consider it that way. So the "certified copy" is the "original".

So don't mess about. Ask your wife to go with confidence and hand documents over by saying here are the original docs. Don't say here are the "certified copy" of our marriage certificate.

You cannot reason with them. Never I tell you!

Most of the people working for these government office are so ignorant (both Indian and British). Indian issuing authority with a lock down saying "certified copy". We do not provide original. British authority saying we accept only "original". Don't get caught up in that by trying to make someone understand.

You have got all the documents you need. So I'm surprised how this whole thing about "certified copy" even came up.

Good luck! I'm sure she will get through and get her visa.

[parvez]

I hear what you're saying depserado. Thanks for the advice again. I agree with you 100% with regards to the relative mentalities of the parties concerned. I shall follow your advice and tell my wife the same.

I think the whole issue came about as follows. In the covering letter my wife submitted with the application, we submitted a list of all the evidence and supporting documents we enclosed. One of the items of the list read:

Our civil marriage and ‘Nikah’ certificates issued in December 2007 after our wedding which took place in India

At the time we thought that the "Memorandum of Marriage" document is the civil marriage certificate.

Upon enquiring about the status of my wife's application by emailing the Deputy British High Commission in Mumbai, I received the following response:

Dear Sir

This is with regards to your email below.

We have received your wife's application for a UK visa at our office, however your wife is required to attend our office for an interview, an appointment for this interview has to be taken from the VFS office.

Please note the officer has requested your wife to bring in the civil marriage certificate along with her at the time of her interview.

Kindly contact the Visa Facilitation Centre in Mumbai on 6633 1700 or 6636 7066.
Yours faithfully

Casework Unit

This was very confusing as we thought we had already submitted our civil marriage certificate (though this was actually the "Memorandum of Marriage document). So I was beginning to think they were doubting the validity of our marriage. Upon doing some research on the Internet I found that the civil marriage certificate and "Memorandum of Marriage" are 2 completely different documents and that we didnt have a civil marriage certificate as didn't have a civil marriage ceremony in court. We just had a Nikah and then the marriage was registered as required by Indian law. But our marriage was still valid.

In order to clarify this with the Deputy British High Commission, I sent them the following email:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Many thanks for your prompt response. My wife shall contact the VFS Application Centre at Mumbai South to arrange an appointment to attend an interview at the Deputy British High Commission office in Mumbai.

With regards to the civil marriage certificate, we feel that there may have been a slight misunderstanding in the application, for which we sincerely apologise. We firstly had a traditional/religious marriage ceremony according to the Muslim rites in India and, hence, obtained a Nikah certificate, which we have submitted with the application. The following day we legally registered the marriage in my wife's town, as required by Indian law. As a result of this registration of the marriage, we were issued with the "Memorandum of Marriage", which we have also submitted with the application. We believe that our marriage is valid now as a result of this registration, as far as Indian laws are concerned. Therefore, there was no need to have a further ceremony in court in order to obtain a civil marriage certificate.

Please could you confirm that the aforementioned documents, namely Nikah certificate and "Memorandum of Marriage", are present in the application pack we have submitted. We were not issued with any other certificates or documents at the time of registering the marriage, and upon querying this, we have been advised that this is normal practice in India and that the memorandum is considered as valid, legal evidence of our marriage. Furthermore we have also been advised that it is normal practice for the original copy of the marriage memorandum to be retained by the issuing authority. However, my wife shall bring another, stamped and certified, true copy of this memorandum with her at the interview.

I hope that clarifies the situation and allows you to process my wife's application accordingly. Given this information, please could you confirm whether you still require my wife to attend an interview, even though we do not have a civil marriage certificate to present to you. Also, please could you let me know if you require any further information or would like my wife to present any further documents.

Regards,
Parvez

..and this is the response I got:

Dear Sir

This is with regards to your email below.

The Entry clearance officer assessing your wife's application for a UK has noted the original Nikkah Certificate you have submitted and a true copy of the Memorandum of Marriage. However the officer has requested your wife to come in for an interview before she could reach a decision on her UK visa application. The officer has also requested your wife to bring in the original and not a true copy of the Memorandum of Marriage/ civil marriage certificate along with her at the time of the interview.

Yours faithfully

Casework Unit

Sorry about all the detail. Just thought it might help people to help me.

As the "true copies" don't bare my and my wife's proper signatures (these were completed by the registrar), will the Deput British High Commission not claim it to be not original?

[desperado]

As the "true copies" don't bare my and my wife's proper signatures (these were completed by the registrar), will the Deput British High Commission not claim it to be not original?

They might. In this case, your wife would have to convince them issuing authority do not give the original out.

I still think you should get a letter from issuing authority saying they do not give out original and have that letter addressed to UK Consulate.

As you are saying the certificate don't bare your's and your wife's signatures clearly, British Embassy are asking for original.

Get in touch with issuing authority and tell them, you have shown the british consulate the "true copies" or "certified copies" and they still insist on seeing the original. Tell the issuing authority, as a proof the british consulate want a letter from issuing authority that they do not give out originals and the "true copy" is really true and it is original. Ask them to address it to UK consulate.

With that you should be safe.

Good Luck!

[parvez]

Like I said before, issuing authority won't give me such a letter (I've already tried) as they claim it goes against the law

Thanks for your help desperado. Much appreciated.

[archigabe]

You can get a 'civil marriage certificate' from the Indian Marriage registrar by submitting a 'Religious marriage' wedding certificate to the registrar and asking the Indian registrar to register the wedding and issue you the civil marriage certificate.

[parvez]

You can get a 'civil marriage certificate' from the Indian Marriage registrar by submitting a 'Religious marriage' wedding certificate to the registrar and asking the Indian registrar to register the wedding and issue you the civil marriage certificate.

Thanks archigabe, but that's exactly what we did in the first place and were issued with 2 copies of the "Memorandum of Marriage", which you're referring to as the 'civil marriage certificate'

[archigabe]

"Memorandum of Marriage", which you're referring to as the 'civil marriage certificate'

Unfortunately you married under the Islamic Marriages Act,India, so the Indian registrar did not provide you with the normal Civil Marriage Certificate as required for marriages performed under Special marriages Act, Hindu Marriage Act,Christian Marriage Act and provided you with something else called 'Memorandum of Marriage'...
http://www.indianmuslims.info/news/2007 ... ation.html

There's quite a few Pakistanis who don't seem to have any problem with the Islamic Nikah being recognised by the British Embassy in Pakistan.I don't know why they are being so difficult in India.

Maybe you should try to get remarried under 'Special Marriage Act'
http://www.legalserviceindia.com/helpline/marriage.htm
http://www.spam.com/news/ukchecon.html


http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=22208
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=22988

[parvez]

Thanks archigabe.

I don't think the Deputy British High Commission's visa section are doubting the validity of our marriage. The visa rules clearly state that the marriage must be legally recognised in the country in which it was held. The Nikah certificate and Memorandum of Marriage together prove the validity of our marriage, so having a civil marriage will not make any difference. I think the ECO is just being picky because our case is so straightforward and they want to make our life a bit more difficult. I have been told by so many people that the Memorandum of Marriage that w have submitted has historically been accepted by the ECO in the past. It's merely a formality I think...

As I've already said, British Embassies anywhere in the world would want to make sure that the marriage is legally recognised in the country in which is took place. The Nikah certificate on it's own is legally recognised evidence of marriage in Pakistan and so the British Embassies there accept it as valid evidence of marriage. However, in India, the law requires those who have had a religious/traditional marriage ceremony to register their marriage like we have, before it is legally recognised. Therefore, the British Embassies in India require either a civil marriage certificate, OR a religious marriage certificate and marriage registration document (memorandum of marriage, as proof of the marriage.

[parvez]

Thanks deperado!

She passed the interview stage this morning. I tried to help her prepare as much as possible using the interview questions found in previous posts on this forum and the one at www.ukresident.com. But she was asked only one question from them (why did she want to come to the UK.) Then she was asked for the original memorandum of marriage. She gave the other true copy we had without saying anything. The ECO said that is not the original, to which my wife answered that we've been told it is. The ECO claimed that the original should have a green stamp on it but this one didn't. My wife was really worried at this point as the ECO said it wouldn't be accepted. The ECO asked my wife where we had obtained the memorandum of marriage from and she explained that it was obtained from the registry office in the town in which we got married. The ECO said she would check with her manager. After 15 mins, the ECO returned and congratulated my wife on passing the interview stage!

My wife tells me the interview went really well and that they have given her all the supporting documents back. She has been asked by the Deputy British High Commission in Mumbai to have some medical checks done now before Entry Clearance can be granted and all being well she can collect her passport from the VFS application centre 10-12 working days after the medical checks.

Does anyone know if the checks are supposed to be done at 2 different clinics in Mumbai? That's what my wife has been told. If so, does she have to pay the fees for the medical checks twice and complete 2 sets of forms. How is it handled after that? Does the doctor report the outcome of the medical checks directly to the British High Commission's visa section?

Thanks in advance

[desperado]

Congrats Parvez! It good to know she passed the interview. Well Done!

I'm not sure about the medical checks. My wife had her medical check in one hospital and they took care of all the process. Eitherway its all now a formality.

Enjoy! All the best wishes for starting your happy family and new life in Britain. Pay your taxes on time and respect the UK custom and law!

Thanks deperado!

She passed the interview stage this morning. I tried to help her prepare as much as possible using the interview questions found in previous posts on this forum and the one at www.ukresident.com. But she was asked only one question from them (why did she want to come to the UK.) Then she was asked for the original memorandum of marriage. She gave the other true copy we had without saying anything. The ECO said that is not the original, to which my wife answered that we've been told it is. The ECO claimed that the original should have a green stamp on it but this one didn't. My wife was really worried at this point as the ECO said it wouldn't be accepted. The ECO asked my wife where we had obtained the memorandum of marriage from and she explained that it was obtained from the registry office in the town in which we got married. The ECO said she would check with her manager. After 15 mins, the ECO returned and congratulated my wife on passing the interview stage!

My wife tells me the interview went really well and that they have given her all the supporting documents back. She has been asked by the Deputy British High Commission in Mumbai to have some medical checks done now before Entry Clearance can be granted and all being well she can collect her passport from the VFS application centre 10-12 working days after the medical checks.

Does anyone know if the checks are supposed to be done at 2 different clinics in Mumbai? That's what my wife has been told. If so, does she have to pay the fees for the medical checks twice and complete 2 sets of forms. How is it handled after that? Does the doctor report the outcome of the medical checks directly to the British High Commission's visa section?

Thanks in advance

[parvez]

Thanks desperado! I don't think we would have managed it without your advice in this thread! I owe you

Pay your taxes on time and respect the UK custom and law!

I'm British mate - born and bred, so I already do!

[SAMISPOUSAL]

[quote="desperado"]Congrats Parvez! It good to know she passed the interview. Well Done!


.........................................
My wife tells me the interview went really well and that they have given her all the supporting documents back. She has been asked by the Deputy British High Commission in Mumbai to have some medical checks done now before Entry Clearance can be granted and all being well she can collect her passport from the VFS application centre 10-12 working days after the medical checks.

Does anyone know if the checks are supposed to be done at 2 different clinics in Mumbai? That's what my wife has been told. If so, does she have to pay the fees for the medical checks twice and complete 2 sets of forms. How is it handled after that? Does the doctor report the outcome of the medical checks directly to the British High Commission's visa section?

FROM SAMI
Please tell me what is this medical test ?
why is there another med test in addition to the TB test that was done at submission?
DO ALL applicants have to go thru this MED TEST just before leaving for UK ?
is it because your TB test is out dated now?

with regard to the registering of the religious marriage. we had to complete forms with our photos (and witness signatures etc) we made copies of that to submit as well as the civil registry cert....
on our file we have just simply said here is the civil registry certificate..... OUR CASE IS IN PROCESS
HOPE IT WILL BE PASSES SOON....

[SAMISPOUSAL]

to all those new people applying from india

i ve just noticed on the indian website that all payments are now online only....

[SAMISPOUSAL]

FIRSTLY this should be made sticky as it affects EVERY ONE HERE

You can track your case at

https://www.vfs.org.in/UKG-PassportTrac ... I5Nsf4HA==

........................................
secondly
we submitted a photocopy of bank letter confirming my savings ( statements are not issued on FD acct) Mumbai office phoned me to courier to them THE ORIGINAL within 5 w days.....
why cant they phone the Bank ? are banks liars and not trustworthy over the phone ?
why cant they get the bank to fax the proof ?
why cant they accept my photocopies which are from the bank itself.. we are not liars and my documents are not fake.......