Naturalisation eligibility to be increased to ILR+2 years???

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:56 pm

Just been watching Channel 4 News where they were talking about a 'Green Paper' on Immigration due to be published by the Govt tomorrow which, among other things, is proposing to add an extra 'probationary' year to the ILR plus one year qualification period for naturalisation.And this before the other chap (can`t remember his name) is due to publish a White Paper on Citizenship which is widely expected to make gaining citizenship harder..

The Green paper is also proposing to increase visa charges further (!!!!!!!) in order to 'force' immigrants to pay for public services. At this rate the next edition of Oxford Dictionary might as well substitute the word 'scum' with 'immigrant'...

maibesa · Post by **maibesa** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:29 pm

What)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

After having to wait an extra year on the Work Permit, paying increased fees and going through a whole load of stress, I might now have to wait an extra year before gaining citzenship? Ohh, it it'll cost me more. Not impressed.
:x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x

chetan · Post by **chetan** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:38 pm

Immigrants to 'earn' citizenship through community service in 'tough' green paper

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:06 pm

chetan wrote:Immigrants to 'earn' citizenship through community service in 'tough' green paper

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770

Having watched the report again, its not really clear at what stage the probation period would be introduced..Kathy (the C4 hackette) seemed to think that there would be an 'extra year' of probation before 'full citizenship' (what next? a 'half' citizenship, only for legal, law abiding, higher band tax paying immigrants of course..all illegals/asylum seekers/fraudsters qualify for full citizenship on arrival) for those who have worked in this country for 5 years but the document shown on screen mentioned both 'settlement' and 'citizenship'. Could this mean that there might be a probation period after 5 years on WP/HSMP before ILR?

What is clear though is that visa fees are set to rise again shortly..I wonder if such frequent extortionist hikes in fees could be challenged in court??

In any case,all will be revealed tomorrow..

No link to the story on the C4 website yet...

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:25 pm

maibesa wrote:What)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

After having to wait an extra year on the Work Permit, paying increased fees and going through a whole load of stress, I might now have to wait an extra year before gaining citzenship? Ohh, it it'll cost me more. Not impressed.

As the HO often likes to remind us, Citizenship is not a right but a privilege

More on the proposed changes..I think this is getting beyond a joke now.. FFS, they are even talking about making immigrants collect points towards settlement as soon as they land in the UK(which would then probably go on the ID cards)!!! I wonder what Liam Byrne has been smoking???

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... isa119.xml

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:53 pm

I think all immigrants should be made to do 18 months community service cleaning my car. It's really filthy at the moment.

It's only a matter of time...

sonia2 · Post by **sonia2** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:16 pm

When are the new rules likely to happen?

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:19 pm

sonia2 wrote:When are the new rules likely to happen?

We should find out tomorrow...

Post by **JAJ** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:22 am

For what it's worth, even if they put a "community service" element into the Green Paper it's unlikely ever to come into force, not least for the reason that community organisations probably have better things to do than handle 150,000 unwilling "volunteers" a year.

This Government is better known for its empty gestures and outright lies rather than telling the truth.

All that said, reality is that a small overcrowded nation cannot keep accepting 1-2m immigrants a decade, so do expect the criteria to be toughened up.

I would not be surprised if the residence period for naturalisation increased to 7 years and the spouse concession was removed. And even if it doesn't happen in the short term, it may happen later.

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:21 am

JAJ wrote:For what it's worth, even if they put a "community service" element into the Green Paper it's unlikely ever to come into force, not least for the reason that community organisations probably have better things to do than handle 150,000 unwilling "volunteers" a year.

This Government is better known for its empty gestures and outright lies rather than telling the truth.

All that said, reality is that a small overcrowded nation cannot keep accepting 1-2m immigrants a decade, so do expect the criteria to be toughened up.

I would not be surprised if the residence period for naturalisation increased to 7 years and the spouse concession was removed. And even if it doesn't happen in the short term, it may happen later.

It does look like the proposals would extend the residence requirement by another year. What the Govt does not realise is that although the ILR requirement for WP/HSMP was increased from 4 to 5 years, the residence requirement for naturalisation was left unchanged at 5 years (with the last year on ILR).If they extend it to 6 years, it would mean that applicants would have to wait for 2 years after getting ILR to qualify for citizenship.

However, they would qualify for 'probationary Citizenship', whatever that means, after ILR by the sounds of it..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/feb/2 ... tionpolicy

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM ... xgPvxANLVA

chetan · Post by **chetan** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:27 am

Just heard on the today programme on radio 4 that new levy will be introduced which the immigrants have to pay for the use of public services such as schools and hospitals.

RobinLondon · Post by **RobinLondon** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:18 am

chetan wrote:Just heard on the today programme on radio 4 that new levy will be introduced which the immigrants have to pay for the use of public services such as schools and hospitals.

All this is doing my head in. It's just the persistence of this government to stick it to the people who are their easiest targets in this matter that just p*sses me off. Ugh. I'm going to stop there and wait until I actually see this hallowed "green paper" before I start writing what I really think.

Again, if you haven't checked out the Citizenship Review website, DO IT NOW.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/reviews/citizenship.htm

Read the attached publications. Write within the next few days to the Review Team with your feedback. Today's announcement may not be officially linked with the review, but I would suspect that similar minds will have access to both processes.

Narcissus · Post by **Narcissus** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:35 am

As far as I can tell from the Telegraph it sounds like "probationary citizenship" is a replacement for ILR.

"The Daily Telegraph has learnt that for the first time there will be three "bands" of citizenship to control the unrestricted immigration of recent years. Those hoping to become British will be accorded temporary resident status for five years. They then become probationary citizens for a year, after which - if they pass a test - they have full British status."

[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... ant120.xml[/url]

I don't see why extending the requirement to six year though makes any difference - it is effectively six years anyway (five + one ILR). I agree it is annoying and not at all necessary though. This will seriously begin to affect our competitiveness vs Australia/Canada. Surely we should be rushing to get the skilled immigrants as citizens (Tier one - possibly Tier 2).

Oh I just thought - I suppose the initial five years could be including ILR - then the probationaty period - if that's the case it's awful.

I would advise avoiding the comments on the Telegraph page - it's full of basically dearly beloved bile - actually makes me ashamed to be British.

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:43 am

Here we go again, 5 years on what ever visa you are on, plus 2 years ILR.
Oh and I forgot, your Naturalisation will costs you double to boot.

The sad truth is we have too many immigrants in the UK from former Commonwealth Country's and now with the increased expansion of the EU a new mass of cheap labour has flooded into the UK.

So the easy solution is to make it impossible for non Europeans to enter the UK either via punitive charges or unrealist residential period's.
7 years.

Saying all this, I don't really believe it will be made into any form of workable law.

teekay_tk · Post by **teekay_tk** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:40 am

hi all.
a few questions come to mind
would the green paper be published online?
also are there any numbers regarding immigration out of UK?
dont immigrants help towards the problems of "the aging nation" as a large portion of the population is getting near the retirement age?

also i dont understand why skilled and unskilled immigrants are not differentiated.

AlexCh · Post by **AlexCh** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:58 am

I am just trying to understand why some foreign doctor working in the UK will have to do additional civic work to become a citizen? Does that mean that he will have to stop helping people in the hospital during this work?

Will foreign CEOs have to go and clean the streets to get the citizenship?

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:03 am

This whole thing of civil duties is laughable!

What's next chain all immigrants up and make them sweep streets too!

ashishashah · Post by **ashishashah** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:10 am

Hhmmmm...Will they increase the "ILR years" from 5 years to 7 years too??

AlexCh · Post by **AlexCh** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:10 am

thirdwave wrote:Could this mean that there might be a probation period after 5 years on WP/HSMP before ILR?

Is not ILR itself "probational" enough? As I understand it can be revoked quite easily.

And I am wondering how forced comminity work will help "combatting the threat from extremism".

RobinLondon · Post by **RobinLondon** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:33 am

teekay_tk wrote:hi all.
would the green paper be published online?

If you want to watch the Home Secretary deliver her speech on this issue in Parliament today, you can do so at 12:30. It can be viewed online here:

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Video ... ingId=1091

The document itself will most certainly be published on the home pages of both the BIA and the Home Office. Just look there around 2pm this afternoon.

With regards to the volunteering aspect, I'm not against that idea in theory. I would imagine that the Government wants to encourage people to get out and meet their neighbours. As someone who is volunteering myself, I'm finding it to be a very positive experience. Volunteering is a completely different undertaking from working with the natives, even if you do so in a some sort of civic function already. Well, that's my opinion anyway. However, I chose to take it upon myself to do so, hence the word "volunteer". As a matter of policy, I think ministers are going to find it quite cumbersome to implement and police the right bother this is likely to cause. Oh well, don't say I didn't warn them!

Oh, by the way, I've just got to add that I'm unpleasantly amused by how all the newspapers and tabloids are *completely* misreporting how long it currently takes to settle and apply for naturalisation. Or as they say, "for a passport", which also is annoying. What's so difficult about realising that it takes 2+1 for those married to UK citizens and 5+1 for almost everybody else? Sheesh! It seems like they're practically tripping over their feet to confuse the public.

chetan · Post by **chetan** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:53 pm

Please correct me if i am miss-interpreting, just watching the speech and the ilr qualifing period will be 6 years, 5 yrs wp/hsmp + 1 yr "probationary citizenship"

ashishashah · Post by **ashishashah** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:55 pm

Watching it live now!!!!

ashishashah · Post by **ashishashah** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:56 pm

Damnnn..ILR is for 6 years???

dnicky · Post by **dnicky** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:24 pm

I've been hearing the speech right from the start. What I've been able to gather I'm putting down that in brief over here,

1. To qualify for the new probationary period a migrant would have to reside lawfully for 5 years. This to me is same as the existing rule where one can apply for a PR (Indefinite leave to remain) only after 5 years of legal stay on work related visas i.e. WP, HSMP.
2. The probationary citizenship period would be for a minimum of 1 year but can extend well beyond a year based upon individual cases and the new factors being proposed.
3. At the end of the probationary citizenship period, migrant can apply for a full citizenship; hence under the new rules the qualifying period for applying for a full citizenship can vary from a minimum of 6 years to ??? may be an unlimited period.
4. The migrants could have to pay additional fees to contribute towards the public services such as schools, NHS etc.

Based on the above points the major changes I can see that are being proposed as a part of the green paper are,
1. The existing fixed period of 1 year that any migrant is required to be resident in UK in a PR (ILR) status, can now be increased before applying for full citizenship.
2. PR (ILR) looks like would now be replaced by probationary citizenship and would directly lead to applying for full citizenship.

Hope this helps.

teekay_tk · Post by **teekay_tk** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:25 pm

i have very difficultly swallowed the 4-5 year rule. if ilr is made 6 years, i'll pack my bags and leave now. this is very unwelcoming attitude from the gov

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Naturalisation eligibility to be increased to ILR+2 years???

Naturalisation eligibility to be increased to ILR+2 years???