EU route fo my mother

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:40 pm

my mother is 52 yrs old and im thinking of her coming to stay her with me in the uk so we can save money on the kids childcare and also be close to us as she as no other sibling or children to depend on.

me and my wife have agreed to this, but how do u think we can bring her here through the eu route either as a dependant or ascendant of an eu citizen(my wife).

i have also thought about the possibility of be being the eu citizen she depends upon when i get a british passport but due to the extention of this new probationary citizenship, who knows when i may qualify for one

I would be greatful with ur inputs guys

thanks for ur time

a_bentz · Post by **a_bentz** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:41 am

im sure others will agree it will be nearly impossible for your to come over if you were british in the uk using uk law, as you could not use the eu route as british citizens can only use domestic law on applications most of the time. it would be easier to come in as a dependent parent of an eu citizen (your wife). but yours might first need a eea family permit issued outside the uk at a british embassy first depending on the mothers nationality. im not acutally 100% sure if that would work (come in visa free) then apply on form eea2 but cannot see why it would not. good luck anyway, eu law def looks like the way to go if any.

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:39 am

thank for that

i've not made myself clear enough. my wife is british and i was not thinking of the uk route but if we go by the eu route how long will we have to stay there for her her be eligible to enter the uk as a dependant

a_bentz · Post by **a_bentz** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:52 am

sorry i thought your wife was eu citizen other than british. as far as i am aware you can only use european law if you/or wife are living in another european country other than the uk. i think you have to living in another eu state to then be able to use european law when returning to the uk. i would guess you need to living in another state for at least 6 months that normally seems to me the time scale alot of things go by in the eu. its not the easiest of things moving to another member state i know, what with the whole language thing unless of course you can speak a european language and can get a job where you can exercise your/your wifes treaty rights.

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:31 am

wot if we excersice the treaty in Eire(Republic)

a_bentz · Post by **a_bentz** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:45 am

that should work and at least they all speak english, i dont see why it wouldnt work but the irish immigration system are not very jacked up and you might be waiting a while before you can get all your residence cards sorted out. if your mother was living with you and your family in the irish republic i doubt the home office will be able deny you using eu laws for your mother to return to the uk with your family under eu law. i stand corrected though.

a_bentz · Post by **a_bentz** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:52 am

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:07 am

Did I read somewhere about using EU laws to attempt to subvert UK immigration laws?

This is from my reading when I was considering living in Germany for three months and hopping back under Singh ruling.

Certainly put me off at the time!

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:04 am

Wanderer wrote:Did I read somewhere about using EU laws to attempt to subvert UK immigration laws?

This is from my reading when I was considering living in Germany for three months and hopping back under Singh ruling.

Certainly put me off at the time!

Really? I can't see how..

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:18 am

Now you made me go look for it! And I found it, my bold, dunno how accurate it is to be honest, it's from a Law site in 2003....

In general, where a non EEA spouse of a UK national is seeking to enter the UK for the purposes of living with his or her spouse, the ordinary immigration rules (as detailed above) will apply, even though the UK is part of the EEA. However, a small number of people may take advantage of the case of Surinder Singh [1992 3 All ER 798] which applies the rules relating to spouses of EEA nationals to non-EEA spouses of UK nationals. This is particularly important when it comes to marriage breakdown (see below). The ECJ held that, where a British citizen has been exercising a right to free movement in another EU state, the spouse of that British citizen will retain their rights to benefit from EU law on moving to the UK. Regulation 11 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2000 ("the Regulations") now therefore states that the spouse of a British citizen will be treated in this way, namely in the same way as a family member of an EEA national, if:

After leaving the UK, the British citizen resided in an EEA country and was employed there or was established there as a self-employed person;
The British citizen did not leave the UK in order to enable his family member to acquire rights under the Regulations and therefore evade the ordinary immigration law;
On returning to the UK, the British citizen would, if he or she were an EEA national, be a "qualified person", namely exercising Treaty rights, under the EEA Regulations; and
The marriage took place and the parties lived together in an EEA country before the British citizen returned to the UK.
This provision therefore in reality covers a small number of people and is designed not to allow immigrants to take advantage of rights they would not ordinarily be entitled to.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:42 am

Wanderer wrote:Now you made me go look for it! And I found it, my bold, dunno how accurate it is to be honest, it's from a Law site in 2003....

In general, where a non EEA spouse of a UK national is seeking to enter the UK for the purposes of living with his or her spouse, the ordinary immigration rules (as detailed above) will apply, even though the UK is part of the EEA. However, a small number of people may take advantage of the case of Surinder Singh [1992 3 All ER 798] which applies the rules relating to spouses of EEA nationals to non-EEA spouses of UK nationals. This is particularly important when it comes to marriage breakdown (see below). The ECJ held that, where a British citizen has been exercising a right to free movement in another EU state, the spouse of that British citizen will retain their rights to benefit from EU law on moving to the UK. Regulation 11 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2000 ("the Regulations") now therefore states that the spouse of a British citizen will be treated in this way, namely in the same way as a family member of an EEA national, if:

After leaving the UK, the British citizen resided in an EEA country and was employed there or was established there as a self-employed person;
The British citizen did not leave the UK in order to enable his family member to acquire rights under the Regulations and therefore evade the ordinary immigration law;
On returning to the UK, the British citizen would, if he or she were an EEA national, be a "qualified person", namely exercising Treaty rights, under the EEA Regulations; and
The marriage took place and the parties lived together in an EEA country before the British citizen returned to the UK.
This provision therefore in reality covers a small number of people and is designed not to allow immigrants to take advantage of rights they would not ordinarily be entitled to.

Interesting, thanks. I suppose it's a question of proof though. I mean, how would the UK authorities go about proving that you went to live in Germany specifically to "evade" the UK national immigration laws, when your real reason was simply that you fancied a change of scenery and to brush up on your German?

I don't think they can really challenge you on this..

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:47 am

that said, its a grey area who the onus is upon in terms of doubt and proof of intent to or not to abuse the treaty for negative gains inorder to evade the UK national immigration laws.

wot do u think?

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:33 am

SMOOTH OPERATOR wrote:wot do u think?

I think that you should all go and live in Ireland. You never know, you might like it.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:56 am

benifa wrote:
SMOOTH OPERATOR wrote:wot do u think?
I think that you should all go and live in Ireland. You never know, you might like it.

Bear in mind too, Ireland is not the most EU friendly state when it comes to immigration.....

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:13 pm

Wanderer wrote:Bear in mind too, Ireland is not the most EU friendly state when it comes to immigration.....

Aint that the truth!

Still, if the Irish Department of Justice don't play ball in granting Stamp 4, they will probably grant Stamp 3 in the interim, which is "legal residency" for the purposing of returning to the UK under the Surinder Singh ruling.

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:03 pm

thank guys ill think about it

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:05 pm

And what will happen to your spouse visa whilst you are away from the UK? How long are you planning to leave? When do you apply for ILR/naturalisation?

SMOOTH OPERATOR · Post by **SMOOTH OPERATOR** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:22 am

Sakura i'll be doing this when i get ILR ad not while im still on a spouse visa and if the new probation citizenship wont affect me ill then wait till after naturalisation

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 pm

Wanderer wrote:Did I read somewhere about using EU laws to attempt to subvert UK immigration laws?

This is from my reading when I was considering living in Germany for three months and hopping back under Singh ruling.

Certainly put me off at the time!

The reason a couple decides to exercise their treaty rights does not matter. It only matters that they were exercising treaty rights. The case of Adrich in 2003 (Case C-109/01 Secretary of State for the Home Department v Hacene Akrich) reiterated the decision in Singh, and is explicit in saying:

Where the marriage between a national of a Member State and a national of a non-Member State is genuine, the fact that the citizen of the Union installed him or herself in another Member State in order, on their return to the Member State of which he or she is a national, to obtain for his or her spouse the benefit of rights conferred by Community law is not relevant to an assessment of their legal situation by the competent authorities of the latter State.

See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/ for the links to the decisions.

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EU route fo my mother

EU route fo my mother