chaoscontrol wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:15 pm
reynaldogr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:06 pm
im in the same boat and my wife is due to apply for a PR in april. When did you submit yours? please, wether the outcome is bad or good, let us know. Some piece of mind will be appreciate for me and my wife. I have never regret so much becoming British.
I have become british back in 2014 and since then, my wife don't know if she has been iligally in the country. Just thinking that now she need to start over again and bllody go back to our home country (now in war pretty much), with my new born (british btw), to re-gain access an start all over again, paying thoughsend of pounds and also having a private insurence after being lawfully working and paying taxis in the UK for all these years, it makes me sick even to continuing living here in this bloody grey country!. Sorry about my working but you can understand my frustration. Im sure something similar is going through your mind while a awaiting a decision. Many thanks. Regards
Absolutely same Bro !
these rules pretty much breaking families and I am not talking about all the great stress they made for me and my wife since I became British in 2015 .. if I would know about all this mess I would never naturalise as British citizen .
My non eu wife also must apply for PR in April , she come to live with me here in UK in December 2012 .. Also both been lawfully working and paid taxes for 5 bloody years and have British child now who is 1 year old ..
Also both stressing out about `Lounes case from 14.11.2017 as it is still not been implemented into Uk law and looks like it never will be !
there is piles of different problems for them ,for example Brexit or maybe that they simple not bothered to change anything now as Brexit will nullify CJEU decision in `Lounes as soon as UK exits Eu in 2019.
So , I suspect that there is no answer for us regarding of what HO will decide when we will apply .
All we can do is
apply , have our applications rejected and then appeal and go to Court , then 2019 comes , my wifes derivative right to live here will be cancelled and we will need to apply by UK immigration law for ILR or something like that , pay piles of money to get nowhere again ...
here is the link to my `topic` (my story) :
eea-route-applications/i-have-dual-citi ... 44182.html
Hi Chaoscontrol,
Just going through your story... Probably you may know all this by now but anyhow. This is what i understand after doing a lot of reading in the subject. I even feel like i know more than the bunch of useless robots the HO has in the EU support line.
- Transitional Arrangements (TA - refer to:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1547/made), deadline was the 16/10/2012. If your wife didn't submit her application for the 5 years resident card (not the family member/entry clearance, that is something different), then basically you and your wife are in the same boat as me and mine;
. Basically, once we became BC then, they were not longer enjoying the family member rights of a EU national exercising treaty rights... as you know, from this point on-wards, we were not longer treaty as EA nationals, as per the UK immigration laws! Interesting fact. I don't how we have manged to get in and out of the country so many time under this circumstances, and none of the UK border officer in the airports pick this up. I believe this can be subject to another type of debate for another forum perhaps?.
My case is as follow:
1) Sept - 2012: Got married my wife - Third Country National in her, country of birth (which is mine two - yes, I've got now 3 nationalities, third country as my wife, EA national and British. all of them valid).
2) Dec - 2012 My wife was granted with a Family Member visa/Entry Clearance (Valid from 7/01/13 to 02/05/13)
3) 07/01/13 arrived in the UK to join me
4) March - 2013: Submit her Application for her Residence Card
5) Sept - 2013: She received her Residence Card valid for 5 years
6) July - 2013: I've got my Permanent Residence
7) March - 2015: I became British National (Sadly)
Jan - 2018: My wife is entitle to apply for a permanent residence after 5 years of living in the UK, but all this problem came to our sight and we are where we are now...
Her 5 years residence card expire in Sept-18, and we have a couple of family trips that we will like to attend, hence we decided to submit her application for PR once we get back in April (only because once her passport is gone to the HO, we don't know how long will take to get it back).
So my second point to clarify in your case is:
- Your wife is entitle to submit her PR application 28 days before of her arriving in the UK. This mean you could have applied since the 29/11/17 (considering she arrived in the UK on the 26/12/12). So you don't have to wait until the 5th year of her Residence Card issue date which i believe was April 2013 (as you commented). But anyhow, i understand that you want to wait as much as possible to wait until the EJC case is set in the HO case workers guidance otherwise this may be rejected.
Third:
- RE the 5 years period of the Residence card, she is not required to apply for a PR to prove this, so, technically, her job shouldn't be worried about this date. PR is only a confirmation in case she may want to applied for citizenship in the future. I understand, as the Brexit is coming, you both want to secure your immigration status as soon as possible. But, again, she shouldn't be worried to lose her job as UK is still officially part of the EU, and applying for a PR certificate is not mandatory. So if she gets sacked, i reckon you will have a solid case to suit her company (but this is part of another discussion and it is just a thought. I'm not a lawyer really).
Fourth:
- RE the derivative right of residence, i'm in the same opinion, and actually i had the same set mind before reading it from the lawyer student (adinfernos) you have been in contact in your story, where it states the following:
"The key points are:
The third-country national has no derivative right of residence under Directive 2004/38, but does under Article 21(1) TFEU
This right must be "on conditions which must not be stricter than those provided for by Directive 2004/38 for the grant of such a right to a third-country national who is a family member of a Union citizen who has exercised his right of freedom of movement by settling in a Member State other than the Member State of which he is a national".
Because the conditions must not be stricter than those provided by the Directive for an EU national exercising Treaty Rights, I understand that this should include all the benefits that the later is entitled to, including that of acquiring permanence residence after 5 years of acquiring the derivative right of residence as a family member of an EU national."
So, although the Lounes case doesn't go that far, as he was entitled to a 5 years residence card, but they don't specified if this derivative right can be counted towards him having the PR after 5 years. But i reckon the statement above is right. Otherwise he would have done this in vain, as after year or so, once we are officially out of the EU, probably this derivative right will automatically be referred to the BC cases hence, he will be in limbo again.
All in all, i reckon the best way to get out of this mess we've got into it unnecessarily, is by submitting the application for a PR certificate, and pray to god it will fall into a competent case worker, that is aware of this grey area in the HO guidance and also the Lounes case. I reckon is important to comment RE this case in the application, where there is this box where your wife need to state that if his sponsor has another nationality. Maybe make a reference in this box to lead the case worker of the HO to a printed copy of the full case judgment:
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/d ... cid=591857
There will 3x possible outcomes:
1) they will approve your wife PR application. The good news about this would be that she won't have to wait 12 month in this status as because you are British she can become BC soon after she receives her PR.
2) PR is rejected. She will be able to appeal and then take it to court
3) PR is rejected and she will have to go outside UK to re-apply for visa as spouse of a BC. Starting all over again and give to the government that f u kc you up in the first place, more money out of your own pockets.
Hopefully, the first one will be the case. If not, then i reckon the HO will face a long list of appeals and court cases as there will be thousands of cases like us coming as the 5 years after the TA from Oct-2012 are starting just now. I believe, there are also thousands of people in our situation that they don't even imagine how they managed to f u...c k their beloved ones up by supposedly "upgrading" their status in this country. Most of them as well, with British born babies like you and me. Unbelievable.
Lets keep each other in contact, via this forum if there are any fresh news and once we submit our applications. I reckon, by joining forces and letting more people aware of this grey area in the UK immigration laws, the most likely we will be able overcome this sick circumstances.
Br
