Irish Citizen (UK resident ) Married To South American

[JAJ]

Dear JaJ,

Just an update so that future readers can follow the hoops of the application process.

I received the invitation to the citizenship ceremony within 6 weeks of my application for citizenship. This ceremony held fortnightly on Wednesdays (as far as Fulham and Hammersmith are concerned) is free (i.e. included in the £655) but as I can't take Wednesdays off from my school I asked for an individual ceremony which they provided at very short notice i.e. within 48 hours of my telephone request and charged a further £100. It took 15 minutes. I did NOT need to bring a passport to the ceremony rather a photo ID eg my UK driver's licence.

The next hoop (as you know) is applying for the actual UK passport. This can take up to 6 weeks to arrive and I must enclose my current Irish passport. A relatively small problem at this point in time is that I can not be without my current Irish passport for 6 weeks. I have requested that I send it to them and they send it back quickly while my application for a UK passport is being processed but they have refused. I find this a bit unfair. I travel abroad in December and again in February. So I need to wait until the end of February before I can apply for the UK passport. I am not greatly inconvenienced by this but I am surprised that the UK Passport office can't simply view my Irish passport and post it back to me or allow me to send a certified copy.

My Colombian wife can begin her application for UK citizenship in April and hopefully by then I will have been posted my UK passport if I apply for it in late February. In the meantime we are off to Colombia in December/January. (Small detail - Colombia no longer requires a visa from Irish citizens, so one small headache out of the way).

Sorry about all this detail but I just want any readers to know the hoops if they find themselves in a similar position as we did. Thank you again JAJ for all your help. Your advice has been spot on.

Congratulations on obtaining your British citizenship.

The Passport Office do ask to see foreign passports, but only to confirm identity, not to confiscate them. I don't know what would happen if you applied for a passport and didn't include it - they might not insist on it. Calling the "helpline" usually isn't worth it as they normally just read from a script.

Bear in mind that your wife can apply for naturalisation as the spouse of a British citizen as soon as she has her 5 years residence (which gives her permanent resident status). You do not have to have a British passport - the fact you are a British citizen is sufficient.

[Tom Owens]

Dear JAJ,

Once again I return to you...

My Colombian wife is all set to send off her documents to the Home Office on 5 April to commence her application for Naturalisation as a UK citizen.

We have just heard that there is a Green Paper to be issued tomorrow on UK citizenship.

You will not have seen the Green Paper yet of course (there are leaks of the details) but in your opinion - should we be worried? The reasons our hearts are pounding a bit is that the Irish government changed their eligibility criteria for citizenship and we missed Irish citizenship for her completely because we were married in December 2002 rather than November 2002. Hence my naturalisation as a UK citizen earlier this year. It was all caused by a missing a cut off point by 3 weeks. So, you can understand I hope that we are scared something similar might happen to us again!

Tom

[JAJ]

Dear JAJ,

Once again I return to you...

My Colombian wife is all set to send off her documents to the Home Office on 5 April to commence her application for Naturalisation as a UK citizen.

We have just heard that there is a Green Paper to be issued tomorrow on UK citizenship.

You will not have seen the Green Paper yet of course (there are leaks of the details) but in your opinion - should we be worried? The reasons our hearts are pounding a bit is that the Irish government changed their eligibility criteria for citizenship and we missed Irish citizenship for her completely because we were married in December 2002 rather than November 2002. Hence my naturalisation as a UK citizen earlier this year. It was all caused by a missing a cut off point by 3 weeks. So, you can understand I hope that we are scared something similar might happen to us again!

Tom

I wouldn't worry too much. A Green Paper is just a discussion document and the naturalisation criteria can't change substantively without an amendment to the British Nationality Act 1981 going through Parliament.

For what it's worth, I have expressed an opinion (nothing more) that the residence period for naturalisation could well be increased to something like 7 years and it would not surprise me if the 3 year residence concession for spouses was dropped.

But your wife is likely to be a British citizen long before these changes happen provided she applies as soon as eligible.

[Tom Owens]

Dear JAJ,

Thank you for this very prompt and efficient response.

Yes - the leaks indicate 6 years residency but we will see the details later today. But for the moment it's a green paper as you say; a reassuring colour for my wife Sandra and I at least.

Tom

[Tom Owens]

Dear JAJ,

Once again, we turn to you.

My wife Sandra is sending off her documents for her application for naturalisation tomorrow along with my (just arrived) UK passport.

She wants to take on my surname. Since our marriage over 5 years ago, she has continued with her previous name. Now she wants to add my family name to her own.

Her Colombian passport states "Sandra Panqueva Gomez" She wants on her UK passport Sandra Panqueva Owens. Do you know whether she can just write this modified name in her naturalisation application? Or is there another legal procedure she must go through?

Thank you very much again.

Tom

[JAJ]

Off hand I don't know. But I would have thought it ok to apply for naturalisation in her married name provided she shows details of her original name + marriage certificate.

Are you not using the Nationality Checking Service?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

My wife Sandra is sending off her documents for her application for naturalisation tomorrow along with my (just arrived) UK passport.

She wants to take on my surname. Since our marriage over 5 years ago, she has continued with her previous name. Now she wants to add my family name to her own.

You do not have to send your new UK passport with the application. You can either use check-and-send service (and then keep posession of your passport), or go to a lawyer and have them do a certified photocopy of the passport which you send in.

Similarly your wife can keep her passport while the application is being processed also.

The application typically takes a long time for Colombians. Better to have the passports in case you want to travel.

I do not think there is any problem with her using the new surname for the citizenship application. They also ask for the old surname on the form.

[Tom Owens]

Thank you both for getting back.

To answer your question JAJ about the Nationality Checking Service: No we did not. I did not use it for my application which went very smoothly so we just repeated the same strategy for my wife. I had forgotten about the Nationality Checking Service though and perhaps with hindsight should have considered it.

I have enclosed my UK passport with her application but kept back my Irish passport (but sent a certified copy) along with certified copies of the Colombian passports (she has 3 stuffed with opaque Visa stamps). We added my family name to hers in the application and enclosed the marriage certificate. Let's see if that is acceptable.

The last 5 years have been a long time coming in any case. We sent it all off this morning so fingers crossed!

Thanks again.

Tom

[Tom Owens]

Dear JAJ,

In April Sandra sent off all her documents to the IND to apply for citizenship. On 12 May we received a letter indicating that they received the documents and that is it so far.

I had received my citizenship within 2 months of applying. I have 2 questions:

1) Is there any way we can phone theIND to get them to speed things up because Sandra's Schengen expires in August and other Schengen countries will be reluctant to issue her a lengthy visa given her 5 year visa for the UK expires in March 2009? In which case, travelling to the Schengen region after August will be a hassle.

2) A more hypothetical question: I think new legislation on immigration is planned in November by the UK government. If they extend the residency framework by 1 further year say, is that likely to affect people who have already sent in their applications under the "old rules"?

The IND is indicating a 6 to 8 month processing time on average which might mean us having to wait until 2009. I am not sure whether Colombian aplicants face even longer waiting/processing times?

Tom

[JAJ]

1. I think you need to accept that process times have become longer.

2. No.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Legally her right to travel freely in Europe with you is based solely on her relationship with you. She does not have to have a valid visa for the UK. Apply for a Schengen visa and see how it goes. Contact Solvit if you have any problems.

Note that the processing times for UK naturalization seem to depend on original citizenship. Colombian applications seem to be handled very slowly.

[Tom Owens]

Just to report back that my wife Sandra received a letter this morning from the Home Office saying that her application for UK citizenship has been accepted. This was just 3 months from when we sent off her application.

I would really like to thank everyone who provided advice on this message board. JAJ in particular - you got back rapidly always with very accurate and clear advice. It was invaluable. A special thank you to you.

Tom