Foreign Birth Registration

[Jacqui309]

Thanks I have now emailed that address as well. I won't hold my breath but it does seem a very long time

[mattskilondon]

Thanks I have now emailed that address as well. I won't hold my breath but it does seem a very long time

Hi Jacqui, I had to supply additional information and my application took exactly 1 year and 2 weeks, and this was in 2017 to 2018 when processing times were somewhat quicker all round. Stick with it and you should be ok. When I chased up on my application (about 9 months in) I sent a web query (an avenue I think is now closed) and got a reply from the same Foreign.London email address you mentioned. The wait can be agonising but you'll get there in the end.

[Jacqui309]

Today I got a response to my email asking for an update on my application that is over a year old. It is being processed.

[IrishAmerican2]

I know the law is generally very cut and dry, but I have some aspects that are confusing me in terms of if I am eligible.

My great-grandparents were born on the island of Ireland. All of their kids, except my grandmother, were born in Ireland. My grandmother was born in the US in 1924. I know this automatically confers Irish citizenship on my grandmother, as far as I know my grandmother did NOT register my mother on the FBR. She was however born before the passing of the act, in 1955. I believe this should automatically make her an Irish citizen as well?

Do these aspects give me any hope in terms of claiming it, since my mother did not put me on the FBR? Or am I out of luck still? I was born June 1986.

[IrishAmerican2]

To clarify, I mean that my mother if she were to apply for the FBR because she was born before the July 1956 date of the act, would be retroactively a citizen from the July 1956 date because there wasn't really a register for her to have been on. Correct?

[Lee2521]

To clarify, I mean that my mother if she were to apply for the FBR because she was born before the July 1956 date of the act, would be retroactively a citizen from the July 1956 date because there wasn't really a register for her to have been on. Correct?

IrishAmerican2
Here is a link explaing about Irish citizenship by descent

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/m ... tml#l091af

[Sulla]

To clarify, I mean that my mother if she were to apply for the FBR because she was born before the July 1956 date of the act, would be retroactively a citizen from the July 1956 date because there wasn't really a register for her to have been on. Correct?

This is not an easy question. I strongly suggest submitting a query to the Irish mission in that serves your area of the U.S. or writing to a few agencies that offer assistance with Irish citizenship by descent. Most of these agencies will be happy to answer queries as a precursor to taking on a case.

From my own (non-expert) perspective I would say that the answers are as follows:

Your great grandparents: natural born Irish citizens under the 1935 act

Your grandmother: Natural born Irish citizen under the 1935 act

Your mother: Not an Irish citizen under the 1935 act - unless registered on the FBR within one year of her 21st birthday and her father was a natural born Irish citizen not born abroad. The FBR has existed since at least the passing of the 1935 legislation. However, under the 1956 and later updates to the act, your mother should still be eligible to register herself on the FBR and claim Irish citizenship as this 21st birthday provision seems to have vanished - or I did not find it. I do not have time to read through all the acts completely.

You: If your mother was not placed on the FBR prior to the date of your birth in June 1986, then you are not eligible for Irish citizenship via the mechanism of Foreign Births Registration. If her birth was registered on the FBR before your birth (by her or her parents) then you are.

Link to the 1935 act:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1935 ... /html#sec2

[Sulla]

Your mother: Not an Irish citizen under the 1935 act - unless registered on the FBR within one year of her 21st birthday and her father was a natural born Irish citizen not born abroad. The FBR has existed since at least the passing of the 1935 legislation. However, under the 1956 and later updates to the act, your mother should still be eligible to register herself on the FBR and claim Irish citizenship as this 21st birthday provision seems to have vanished - or I did not find it. I do not have time to read through all the acts completely.

Just to correct one word that I wrote before. For some reason I included a not, where it shouldn't appear and this alters the meaning / sows confusion. I also added a sentence to deal with the removal of exclusively patrilineal citizenship acquisition. It should read as follows:

Your mother: Not an Irish citizen under the 1935 act - unless registered on the FBR within one year of her 21st birthday and her father was a natural born Irish citizen born abroad. The FBR has existed since at least the passing of the 1935 legislation. However, under the 1956 and later updates to the act, your mother should still be eligible to register herself on the FBR and claim Irish citizenship as this 21st birthday provision seems to have vanished - or I did not find it. I do not have time to read through all the acts completely. The clause that limits the passing of citizenship to fathers has also disappeared and it is now also permitted through the mother's side.

I would like to add that, I would be delighted to be wrong about all this and to find that you were in fact able to claim citizenship. Unfortunately, looking at the legislation available online and reading the Citizen's advice guidance that Lee posted, I don't think it will be possible - unless you find your mother was included on the FBR on a date prior to your birth.

[DanaMarie]

Unfortunately, looking at the legislation available online and reading the Citizen's advice guidance that Lee posted, I don't think it will be possible - unless you find your mother was included on the FBR on a date prior to your birth.
[/quote]

Just out of curiosity, how does one go about finding out if a parent is added to the FBR? I've applied under my paternal grandmother who is deceased, as is my father and a good chunk of that side of the family, so there's no one to tell me if she registered my father's or uncles' births. Though my uncles were born in the late 20s and my father in 1935 so not even sure it was possible back then?

[Sulla]

Just out of curiosity, how does one go about finding out if a parent is added to the FBR? I've applied under my paternal grandmother who is deceased, as is my father and a good chunk of that side of the family, so there's no one to tell me if she registered my father's or uncles' births. Though my uncles were born in the late 20s and my father in 1935 so not even sure it was possible back then?

As long as your paternal grandmother was born on the island of Ireland (as mine was) then this will not influence your own ability to apply. In that case, your father (like my own) will be automatically an Irish citizen at birth, though born overseas and unregistered on the FBR.

The Foreign Births Register is not publicly accessible. Only the DFA have access to it as far as I am aware. You could try calling / writing to them and asking them to check. As with all communications with the department at present, getting an answer is unlikely to be a rapid process.

In terms of the FBR requirements, the 1935 act expected everyone in a position to claim citizenship to do so within 1 year of their 21st birthday. Therefore, you have some kind of search range based on the dates of birth of your relatives.

[IrishAmerican2]

Thanks a lot Sulla. Lot's of useful info. My mom is still applying as I guess all I can do is wait til she gets the approval. At the same time I live very close to my local Irish embassy and I'm going to try to put an inquiry through to them tomorrow. I've read some conflicting info, what you say seems to be the generally held belief, but I saw some stuff with one of the moderators here, JAJ, talking in the Irish nationality law discussion on wikipedia that they seem to apply citizenship retroactively still for people born before the 1956 law. I think that's really my only hope at this point.

Also the wording of this has been driving me absolutely mad, is it possible someone could explain this further? " People registered before July 1986 are deemed Irish citizens either from the date the original Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act came into force, that is, 17 July 1956, or their date of birth, whichever is later. Only children born after 17 July 1956 can claim citizenship in such cases. Only children born after 17 July 1956 can claim citizenship in such cases."

[Sulla]

Also the wording of this has been driving me absolutely mad, is it possible someone could explain this further? " People registered before July 1986 are deemed Irish citizens either from the date the original Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act came into force, that is, 17 July 1956, or their date of birth, whichever is later. Only children born after 17 July 1956 can claim citizenship in such cases. Only children born after 17 July 1956 can claim citizenship in such cases."

One thing the 1986 Irish Nationality act did was move the date of citizenship acquisition for FBR applicants from the date of birth to the date of registration. Previously, people could register anytime in life and they would be regarded as having been born Irish. A six month transitional window was established allowing people to continue to register under the older (more open ended rules) which led to a surge in applications. The FBR section was overwhelmed (shocker) and further legislation had to be passed in 1994, to clean up the mess created - as long delays led to quite a few people missing out on the 6 month cut off date. Therefore, Brexit is not the first time something like this has happened. The FBR section has form.

It appears that people registered on the FBR before 1986, were from the passing of the 1986 act only regarded as Irish citizens from the 17th of July 1956 at the earliest. Meaning they could not pass citizenship to children born prior to that date. Hence, Only children born after 17 July 1956 can claim citizenship in such cases.Added to that, anyone who registered after 1986 (after the transitional window etc passed) will be regarded as an Irish citizen only from the date of registration. Thus, your mother registering now, is unlikely to be able to help you. She could have registered anytime up to the closure of the 1986 transitional period and been regarded as Irish from birth.

With reference to the situation that applies to people born before 1956 (like your mother), the 1935 nationality law holds force. Anyone who was a citizen under those laws would remain one.

5.—(1) The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1935 (No. 13 of 1935), and the Irish Nationality and Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 1937 (No. 39 of 1937), are hereby repealed.

(2) Every person who, immediately before the passing of this Act, was a citizen of Ireland shall remain an Irish citizen, notwithstanding the foregoing repeals.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1956 ... /html#sec5

However, in your case, since the 1935 act only allowed citizenship to pass through the father, there may be an issue. That and the problem of the lack of FBR registration prior to your birth and the passing of the 1956 act.

Once again, this is obviously a nuanced and complex topic. An Irish lawyer with experience dealing with immigration and nationality cases might be better placed to help you, should the answer from the Irish consulate prove discouraging. All the best to you anyway. I hope you manage to overcome the obstacles that seem to exist and make it onto the FBR.

[Sulla]

I came across this just now:

https://nomadcapitalist.com/wp-content/ ... x-2019.pdf

It's a new list of passport power assessed on the basis of a number of relevant factors. I think the methodology used here is superior to the conventional passport power rankings, that tend to merely consider how many countries a citizen can go to visa free. I was happy to see that Ireland ranked 4th overall, which was significantly better than the U.K. or other passports I hold.

Since we all face a lengthy wait for our FBR and finally passports, it is reassuring and somewhat comforting to reflect on the value of the document to be obtained.

[Wims]

Hi there,

I am waiting for my children's' FBR applications to go through and thought I would pass on the update I received today

Having sent the applications last September and received acknowledgement of receipt at London Embassy a couple of days later our '6 months' was up at the end of March.

I gave them a call at the end of March at which point I was told that they were then processing applications from July 2018 meaning the September 2018 applications will likely be processed in another couple of months. I called again today for an update and unfortunately for anyone still waiting the news wasn't good,

The guy on the phone told me that the timeline is now a full 12 months from receipt to them 'processing' the applications. He said it should be fairly quick after that assuming all documentation is correct. I asked about getting supporting documentation back but they can't send anything back as they need it all as the applications will not have been looked at yet and all documents are required for processing.

Really disappointing news but there doesn't appear to be anything we can do about it,

all the best

[Marwin]

I asked about getting supporting documentation back but they can't send anything back as they need it all as the applications will not have been looked at yet and all documents are required for processing.

I am pretty sure that the supporting documents that I handed in the first time with my FBR application at the Irish Embassy in Berlin had been returned to me. Only the additional original supporting documents that I handed in at a later stage seem to have been sent to Dublin. I hope this will not cause a problem later on in the processing of my FBR application.

[brawn401]

I'm 100% sure as of the last few months, even if submitting at London counter or via passport express in Glasgow or Liverpool offices would be a min of 65 working days

Are you 100% sure based on your own, or other people’s experience of being a first time applicant using passport express? I am surprised given there have been a number of individuals on the old thread who had used this service as a first time applicant and had benefited from the faster processing time.

Quick update on this point. I checked my application on the passport tracker yesterday and to my surprise my passport has been printed and dispatched, and I was provided with a anPost tracking number to track the shipment. So for me at least, If this update is to be believed, Passport Express for a first time passport applicant with FBR as the citizenship route has taken 10 working days from appearing on the passport tracker to the passport being printed and shipped.

[UKbertie]

[quote=Wims post_id=1779749 time=1557739691 user_id=214576]
Hi there,

I am waiting for my children's' FBR applications to go through and thought I would pass on the update I received today

Having sent the applications last September and received acknowledgement of receipt at London Embassy a couple of days later our '6 months' was up at the end of March.

I gave them a call at the end of March at which point I was told that they were then processing applications from July 2018 meaning the September 2018 applications will likely be processed in another couple of months. I called again today for an update and unfortunately for anyone still waiting the news wasn't good,

The guy on the phone told me that the timeline is now a full 12 months from receipt to them 'processing' the applications. He said it should be fairly quick after that assuming all documentation is correct. I asked about getting supporting documentation back but they can't send anything back as they need it all as the applications will not have been looked at yet and all documents are required for processing.

Really disappointing news but there doesn't appear to be anything we can do about it,

all the best

Thanks for this update. Helps manage my expectations. I sent through in September too. The update on your phone call Is much appreciated.

[IrishAmerican2]

Also the wording of this has been driving me absolutely mad, is it possible someone could explain this further? " People registered before July 1986 are deemed Irish citizens either from the date the original Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act came into force, that is, 17 July 1956, or their date of birth, whichever is later. Only children born after 17 July 1956 can claim citizenship in such cases. Only children born after 17 July 1956 can claim citizenship in such cases."

One thing the 1986 Irish Nationality act did was move the date of citizenship acquisition for FBR applicants from the date of birth to the date of registration. Previously, people could register anytime in life and they would be regarded as having been born Irish. A six month transitional window was established allowing people to continue to register under the older (more open ended rules) which led to a surge in applications. The FBR section was overwhelmed (shocker) and further legislation had to be passed in 1994, to clean up the mess created - as long delays led to quite a few people missing out on the 6 month cut off date. Therefore, Brexit is not the first time something like this has happened. The FBR section has form.

It appears that people registered on the FBR before 1986, were from the passing of the 1986 act only regarded as Irish citizens from the 17th of July 1956 at the earliest. Meaning they could not pass citizenship to children born prior to that date. Hence, Only children born after 17 July 1956 can claim citizenship in such cases.Added to that, anyone who registered after 1986 (after the transitional window etc passed) will be regarded as an Irish citizen only from the date of registration. Thus, your mother registering now, is unlikely to be able to help you. She could have registered anytime up to the closure of the 1986 transitional period and been regarded as Irish from birth.

With reference to the situation that applies to people born before 1956 (like your mother), the 1935 nationality law holds force. Anyone who was a citizen under those laws would remain one.

5.—(1) The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1935 (No. 13 of 1935), and the Irish Nationality and Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 1937 (No. 39 of 1937), are hereby repealed.

(2) Every person who, immediately before the passing of this Act, was a citizen of Ireland shall remain an Irish citizen, notwithstanding the foregoing repeals.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1956 ... /html#sec5

However, in your case, since the 1935 act only allowed citizenship to pass through the father, there may be an issue. That and the problem of the lack of FBR registration prior to your birth and the passing of the 1956 act.

Once again, this is obviously a nuanced and complex topic. An Irish lawyer with experience dealing with immigration and nationality cases might be better placed to help you, should the answer from the Irish consulate prove discouraging. All the best to you anyway. I hope you manage to overcome the obstacles that seem to exist and make it onto the FBR.

Excellent as always. Thanks a lot for breaking that down better than anything else I've seen on the internet.

It sounds to me then that even my mother should be able to apply to the FBR through the process, but I would be screwed, unless somehow my great-grandmother or grandmother registered her without telling anyone. I guess I have to look and figure out if they're registered. Bummer.

[LesMalouinettes]

The guy on the phone told me that the timeline is now a full 12 months from receipt to them 'processing' the applications.

They've been rattling out this "Full 12 months" line for a while now. In practice, there seems to be no rhyme or reason, so don't get too dejected. I don't see how they could be approving July apps late March/April and then suddenly there be a need to tack on another 3 - 4 months wait time. Just have to wait and see I guess... I submitted late Sept last year too. I'll be interested to see how it plays out for both of us.

[Sulla]

Quick update on this point. I checked my application on the passport tracker yesterday and to my surprise my passport has been printed and dispatched, and I was provided with a anPost tracking number to track the shipment. So for me at least, If this update is to be believed, Passport Express for a first time passport applicant with FBR as the citizenship route has taken 10 working days from appearing on the passport tracker to the passport being printed and shipped.

That's great news for you and for everyone else in the U.K. in a position to avail themselves of the Passport Express service. Thank you for clearing up the earlier confusion on this point. The answer now seems quite clear: Passport Express can be used by applicants in the U.K. who want to get their hands on their Irish passport significantly faster.

I just checked in for my daily dose of disappointment, courtesy of the DFA passport tracker. Still processing. No surprises there. It has been processing since day one.

[Jacqui309]

The guy on the phone told me that the timeline is now a full 12 months from receipt to them 'processing' the applications.

They've been rattling out this "Full 12 months" line for a while now. In practice, there seems to be no rhyme or reason, so don't get too dejected. I don't see how they could be approving July apps late March/April and then suddenly there be a need to tack on another 3 - 4 months wait time. Just have to wait and see I guess... I submitted late Sept last year too. I'll be interested to see how it plays out for both of us.

I submitted mine in late April 2018 and my application is still being processed!!

[Jaxx22]

The guy on the phone told me that the timeline is now a full 12 months from receipt to them 'processing' the applications.

They've been rattling out this "Full 12 months" line for a while now. In practice, there seems to be no rhyme or reason, so don't get too dejected. I don't see how they could be approving July apps late March/April and then suddenly there be a need to tack on another 3 - 4 months wait time. Just have to wait and see I guess... I submitted late Sept last year too. I'll be interested to see how it plays out for both of us.

Yes and I think if this really is the case then they need to take the 'applications take approximately 6 months to process' off the website, it only states on the website also that taking up to 12 months is for complex applications and I am sure that the majority of applications received are straight forward (as is mine, my father Irish but born abroad hence I am not automatically Irish and my grandparents Irish born in Ireland).

I emailed the embassy (through the web enquiry as I don't have a direct email) to ask about who to inform about moving and not had a reply. Is it now that you cannot submit any enquiries via email/web enquiry for FBR? I would like to know who needs to be informed - do the embassy take it from details from the DFA or do they have a separate file with contact details?

It is disappointing that it is taking so long to complete applications, I do realise they are busy and will have a back log but to be a year or more for some people but still quoting 6 months on the website especially when Brexit isn't a new thing now is very frustrating.

I think it wouldn't be so bad if you could at least track it somehow. As an example I have no idea where my application/documents are. I sent them to the embassy, I have had no email confirmation of receipt and I have asked the embassy to confirm receipt but have had no reply. I hope this doesn't mean that my application has been misplaced - perhaps being a little paranoid here but when there is absolutely no acknowledgement it is easy to think this.

I don't suppose Micheal has heard anything yet?

Jacqui I can't believe you have been waiting over a year for your application.

[Wims]

Jaxx22

I recommend giving them a call when you have a free morning, you will eventually get through.

I was then able to give them the application numbers and they could confirm that they had received them. At the very least it would put your mind at ease as to whether they have the application or not

[Michael123]

The guy on the phone told me that the timeline is now a full 12 months from receipt to them 'processing' the applications.

They've been rattling out this "Full 12 months" line for a while now. In practice, there seems to be no rhyme or reason, so don't get too dejected. I don't see how they could be approving July apps late March/April and then suddenly there be a need to tack on another 3 - 4 months wait time. Just have to wait and see I guess... I submitted late Sept last year too. I'll be interested to see how it plays out for both of us.

Yes and I think if this really is the case then they need to take the 'applications take approximately 6 months to process' off the website, it only states on the website also that taking up to 12 months is for complex applications and I am sure that the majority of applications received are straight forward (as is mine, my father Irish but born abroad hence I am not automatically Irish and my grandparents Irish born in Ireland).

I emailed the embassy (through the web enquiry as I don't have a direct email) to ask about who to inform about moving and not had a reply. Is it now that you cannot submit any enquiries via email/web enquiry for FBR? I would like to know who needs to be informed - do the embassy take it from details from the DFA or do they have a separate file with contact details?

It is disappointing that it is taking so long to complete applications, I do realise they are busy and will have a back log but to be a year or more for some people but still quoting 6 months on the website especially when Brexit isn't a new thing now is very frustrating.

I think it wouldn't be so bad if you could at least track it somehow. As an example I have no idea where my application/documents are. I sent them to the embassy, I have had no email confirmation of receipt and I have asked the embassy to confirm receipt but have had no reply. I hope this doesn't mean that my application has been misplaced - perhaps being a little paranoid here but when there is absolutely no acknowledgement it is easy to think this.

I don't suppose Micheal has heard anything yet?

Jacqui I can't believe you have been waiting over a year for your application.

Correct, nothing. My email that I got when my application was recieved on August 21 states applications can take upto 6 months, next week is 9 months for me.


I have lost much interest and so has my cousins that have also applied. The plan was to visit Ireland when we got our passports, so for now it appears it will be a trip in summer of 2020 which is a year later than planned.

[brawn401]

That's great news for you and for everyone else in the U.K. in a position to avail themselves of the Passport Express service. Thank you for clearing up the earlier confusion on this point. The answer now seems quite clear: Passport Express can be used by applicants in the U.K. who want to get their hands on their Irish passport significantly faster.

Yes it would certainly seem so. The package that arrived on my desk at work today was indeed my new Irish Passport. That is 12 working days from
It appearing on the tracker (14 from submission at Liverpool Passport Express) to receipt of Passport, which is better than I expected. It also answers the question definitively: if you are a first time applicant from the UK using FBR as your citizenship route, you CAN use the passport express service and it will be expedited in around the turnaround times they state on the website. Good luck to anyone using this service, hope it goes as smoothly for you as it did for me.

Well everyone, 11 months after getting the confirmation email from the DFA saying they had received my application, that is me done. Thanks to all who gave their support on this thread and the last one, I found it to be most helpful and nice to keep things in check in lieu of there being no online tracker for FBR applications.

Good luck to everyone still waiting for their FBR Approvals, or passports! I’ll still be lurking on here from time to time if anyone wants to ask me a question