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JOINT SPOUSE 2 IRISH NATIONAL - VISA REFUSED

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

Moderators: Casa, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, Administrator

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born2live
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Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:50 pm
Ireland

JOINT SPOUSE 2 IRISH NATIONAL - VISA REFUSED

Post by born2live » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:10 pm

Hi all,

Any constructive help/suggestions in this matter would be much appreciated.
Myself, a naturalised Irish citizen as of 2012 and my wife, a Belarus citizen had our Join Spouse Irish National visa application refused in September 2018. The appeal was also refused in December 2018.

Reasons:

FM:- There is no automatic right for non-EEA nationals who are family members of Irish
Citizens to migrate on a long term basis to Ireland. The case has been fully examined on the basis of the documentation submitted, and it has been decided not to grant your application;
F:- Finances- Evidence provided is deemed insufficient or incomplete:
The sponsor in the State has failed to demonstrate that she meets the financial criteria set out in paragraph 17.2 of the Policy Document on Non- EEA Family Reunification;
PF:- The granting of the visa may result in a cost to public funds.
• The sponsor in the State has failed to demonstrate that she meets the financial criteria set out in paragraph 17.2 of the Policy Document;
PR:- The granting of the visa may result in a cost to public resources.
• The sponsor in the State has failed to demonstrate that she meets the financial criteria set out in paragraph 17.2 of the Policy Document;

I roughly understand on what they are saying there, e.g. the financial criteria of 40K over 3 years and non-reliance of public funds. In fact I haven't been in the State for 6 months period in 2017 due to family circumstances at home country, Ukraine. My P60 for 2017 reflects this. Yes, I was claiming SW when I was in between the jobs, so that fails the criteria 17.2 I guess. My financial statement for 2018 should be much better as I had a stable full time work. This is what they essentially said in both, the application refusal, and appeal refusal. BTW, at the time of application (6 months period into the application) I held a well-paid job by the Irish standards, e.g. €600-700 a week, communicated this to the Visa Dept. in Moscow with updated payslips accordingly, but I guess they look at the span of the last 3 years, e.g. check the P60's and access to the Welfare.

Btw, they went into other things, as in "insurmountable obstacle" for me to leave Ireland and just move to Ukraine (after being living in Ireland for the last 19 years), an easy thing to suggest, but rather than do...No social support, emotional support, undated photographs, lack of reference to Ireland (surely I showed they the agreement of renting a property, contract of full time employment with healthy wages, plus last 19 years in Ireland) - is this is not enough as a reference to Ireland ? Visa officer went further by stating that I have willingly decided to split the family by leaving my wife in Ukraine and getting back to Ireland after the marriage - well, then again, did I have much choice there, we followed INIS procedure on family reunification procedure, e.g. for visa required countries to apply for D visa, than wait 6-12 months, etc. If I decided to stay in Ukraine with my wife all this time, question is, how would I meet the financial criteria set in 17.2 ? I don't know either...

Long story short, I am familiar with a number of successful cases, e.g. Alison Ford v DOJ (2015), Gorry v DOJ (2014), ABM v DOJ (2016) where family reunification is involved and one party is an Irish citizen and the other party is NON-EA citizen. As far as I know there are more similar cases on the way in Irish Courts waiting for hearing as we speak.
What would be my best plan of action ?

My solicitors barrister doesn't recommend Judicial Review based on the circumstances in the case. Obviously I can apply again, wait for another 6-12 months’ time to see what happens then, but I am afraid its been too long at that stage, nearly 2 years into the marriage of the emotional strain on myself and my wife, so not sure if another 1-1.5 years is worth risking ?

BTW, it may sound naive, but I honestly wasn't aware of the NON EU Family Reunification Policy conditions until the application process thinking the Irish citizens have the right for immediate family members to be reunited providing you have adequate housing (e.g. lease in place) and healthy wages at the time of application. At least a friend of mine reunited with his spouse this way back in 2014 showing last 3 months payslips and 6 months bank statements which was sufficient at the time. I know now that the Policy was introduced in January 2014.

It is a very difficult situation to be in, living in a limbo for the last 2 years, although I am visiting my wife regularly, at least every couple of months when I have a chance. By looking at the statistics there are many others in similar circumstances to mine. The fact that Ireland didn't adopt, and I believe is reluctant to adapt any legislation that governs the issue of family reunification we are subject to policies which are pretty much one sided documents with no clear guidelines that are treated by the "discretion of the deciding officer" who decides the destiny of one’s life, inherent right to live with your family, etc.

No point to rant here for much longer. Any constructive suggestions, ideas, ways out of this limbo are welcomed...Thank you in advance for your input...

Obie
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Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: JOINT SPOUSE 2 IRISH NATIONAL - VISA REFUSED

Post by Obie » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:53 pm

It may well be the case that the minister gave no regards to Gorry guidance that was given by the court of appeal in 2017.

http://www.courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/0/ED ... D400506AC7


Perhaps you should consider relocating up North if you cannot meet the financial requirements, and apply for UK EEA family permit for your spouse.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

born2live
Newly Registered
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:50 pm
Ireland

Re: JOINT SPOUSE 2 IRISH NATIONAL - VISA REFUSED

Post by born2live » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:18 pm

Going to Northern Ireland is not an option for me as I am renting property here, plus the job, etc. My solicitor recons I should reapply and then see what happens. In case of refusal my solicitor is ready to act on my behalf.

The problem is a waiting period of another 6-12 months with no guarantee of visa being granted. The way I look it this now is that INIS decide on merits of whatever they recon, no legislation in place, only policy document which is not the law, meaning decision is made purely on the visa officers' mood so to speak, no guarantee whatsoever...

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