Parents' EU1 applications refused - advice, please!

[PhigaMol]

Received refusal for my parents' EU1 applications today. There is the option for Review.

The reason for refusal given is that they are not satisfied that my parents are dependent on me. Nothing else to say how the officer arrived at this conclusion.

I had provided bank statements showing money transfer from the UK to my parents' joint account in India over 18 months before moving to Ireland. There is documentation for financial support from before then but did not submit with the EU1 applications.
I had submitted a statement of their monthly expenses in India and copies of their bank receipts to show that their pensions are inadequate and that I have to top it up to meet their basic needs. I also provided information from the internet setting out the average cost of living in the city they used to live in, for comparison against their monthly expenses.
I had provided my Irish bank statements and medical receipts in my parents' names in Ireland to prove that I pay for their expenses in Ireland too.
They have been living in the same household with me since they arrived in Ireland in November 2018 on a Visit Visa. The Visit Visa in itself had been applied on the basis that my parents are dependent on me.

How else can I prove dependence?

Are the chances of a review succeeding better with legal/solicitor representation? Or do I go it on my own?

There had been a decision in the UK Immigration Tribunal that my parents were not dependent on me because they had some savings to their name at the time. These savings were wiped out a few years ago due to a natural calamity in India. I had provided evidence for all of this as part of the EU1 application.

Also, the refusal letters are dated 18th July but were only received today. The stamp mark on the envelope says 23rd July. Have we already lost 3 working days out of the 15 days within which to submit the Review applications? One specialist immigration solicitor in Dublin I called cannot give me an appointment before 8th August.

Desperate times! Any insights gratefully received.

[shpirtshqipe]

Hi there and sorry to hear your parents card was refused

Are you able to provide an extract of the actual refusal reason as usually they are more elaborate on the reasons given rather than a generic one? This may help members here to give you better directions.

Also how long have your parents been here in Ireland from day 1 of arrival to date of refusal?

Read the following thread by PAL80UK member carefully and in particular page 2 where the member explains how he successfully overturned the decision

ireland/parents-eu1-residence-card-appl ... l#p1607785

Hop this helps

Regards, ShpirtShqipe

[PhigaMol]

Are you able to provide an extract of the actual refusal reason as usually they are more elaborate on the reasons given rather than a generic one?

Hi shpirtshqipe,

Many thanks for your response.

My exact thoughts! I was at work when my Mum called to tell me about the refusal. I kept asking her if she had missed any other papers in the envelope because I was expecting details regarding the reasons for refusal too.

The exact wording from the two letters:
"On the basis of the documents supplied, the Minister is not satisfied that you are a qualifying family member as set out in Regulation 3(5) of the Regulations as you have failed to provide evidence that you are a dependent of your EU citizen daughter.........

As the Minister has decided that you are not a person to whom the Regulations apply, your application for a residence card is refused"

I am familiar with Pal80UK's case. Our case is a bit different. My parents actually arrived in Ireland directly on this visa: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... 20citizens
But the broad principles of his case do apply to us.

My father has had health issues after arriving in Ireland. We got a letter from the GP about this. My Mum had an accident within one week of arrival in Ireland. Also submitted the treatment notes to INIS.

They arrived in Ireland on 19th November 2018 and the refusal letter is dated 18th July (EU1 applications reached INIS 19th January 2019). The posting date on the envelope clearly says 23.07.19. I have now obtained the delivery record from An Post dated 24th July with my Dad's signature.

Given the immigration solicitors in Dublin are so busy, I am also terrified about not being able to submit the Review applications in time, in addition to the stress from my parents' visa refusals.

[shpirtshqipe]

It sounds like the decision has been largely made on the basis of your parents status back home so it would be useful to know what type of evidence they submitted with the application for EUFAM.

Here are some scenarios to consider:

Usually dependency is best proven when you provide evidence of near or moderate reliance on your financial support. For example, You state you sent money to “top up” their living costs. Was the difference you sent less than their pension entitlement combined? This in turn could be interpreted by INIS (for their convenience) as your parents being “less” dependent on you.

Their household status before they left the home country and at the time of application could also be another factor of proving dependence on you. Do they own their house or land owned or were they renting?

Medical expenses in their home country if any? Were they paying privately and if so how much etc?

Aside from yourself, are there other children and if yes are they providing financial/social support? Was this included in the application for EUFAM?

When were they refused the family settlement in the UK and was the refusal letter included with the EUFAM application in Ireland?

[npayne27]

Hi, My
My mum in law was also refused in I think March 2018. We appealed without a solicitor. They refused for the same reason in your letter but the difference was they wrote not dependant on us in the state. We have provided every document possible proving her dependency back in her home country for over 4 years and in the state. She has now been dependant on us in the State for 2 years as she arrived in June 2017. She now has received her 3rd extension until early 2020. They said her application is still in the queue. We are praying they grant it and grant it soon because she literally is fully dependent on us. If they refuse I have no idea what to do. If she goes back home, she hoes back home to nothing, WE will have to pay for a place for her to rent, all her living expenses and everything. And there will be no one there to look after her or for her to be around. It’s so sad that genuine people have a hard time with this. So, we are just waiting. If they don’t make a decision by the end of this extension she will be here for almost 3 years.

I made a post in the group you can check out to if you like. I also asked for advice after receiving a third extension. Also, even though we didn’t use a solicitor, is it still to late to use one in some way?

Regards

[Obie]

Under EU law, for Qualifying family member, the requirements is to show dependency in the state and not overseas. Requiring evidence of dependency outside the state is unacceptable.

[arz1986]

hi npayne,
My mother was refused in june 2017. We appealed for review, they refused for same reason. She is dependant on me from last 3 years in ireland and have serious medical conditions. She was given 3 extension (9 month, 4 months and 10 months) and then no further extension. we receive a letter last year in september,2018 the removal letter is not issued and inis will contact you in coming weeks for longer term residency state. no gnib letter yet received. they say file is in queue. We are in ireland more then 3 years.
If my gnib letter or new decision arrive, I will update on the forum.

Hi, My
My mum in law was also refused in I think March 2018. We appealed without a solicitor. They refused for the same reason in your letter but the difference was they wrote not dependant on us in the state. We have provided every document possible proving her dependency back in her home country for over 4 years and in the state. She has now been dependant on us in the State for 2 years as she arrived in June 2017. She now has received her 3rd extension until early 2020. They said her application is still in the queue. We are praying they grant it and grant it soon because she literally is fully dependent on us. If they refuse I have no idea what to do. If she goes back home, she hoes back home to nothing, WE will have to pay for a place for her to rent, all her living expenses and everything. And there will be no one there to look after her or for her to be around. It’s so sad that genuine people have a hard time with this. So, we are just waiting. If they don’t make a decision by the end of this extension she will be here for almost 3 years.

I made a post in the group you can check out to if you like. I also asked for advice after receiving a third extension. Also, even though we didn’t use a solicitor, is it still to late to use one in some way?

Regards

[PhigaMol]

Would love to hear from someone who has appealed the original decision successfully.

Any others, apart from the well-document Pal80UK case?

[shpirtshqipe]

Would love to hear from someone who has appealed the original decision successfully.

Any others, apart from the well-document Pal80UK case?

My dear forum friend

Hearing other success stories may not be the answer.

You have to be willing to share more information specific to your case if you want the advise of this forum. Each case is unique hence my last reply to you about providing what kinda documents your parents submitted and their adverse immigration history in the UK. This will enable members of this forum to provide further guidance on how best to prepare your appeal.

In any case I wish you the very best of luck in overturning the decision in your favour

Regards ShpirtShqipe

[npayne27]

hi npayne,
My mother was refused in june 2017. We appealed for review, they refused for same reason. She is dependant on me from last 3 years in ireland and have serious medical conditions. She was given 3 extension (9 month, 4 months and 10 months) and then no further extension. we receive a letter last year in september,2018 the removal letter is not issued and inis will contact you in coming weeks for longer term residency state. no gnib letter yet received. they say file is in queue. We are in ireland more then 3 years.
If my gnib letter or new decision arrive, I will update on the forum.

[/quote]

Hi! Thank you for your replay.

If you don't mind, I just wanted to ask a couple of questions. I don't really understand what you said after the refusal of the review application.

When they refused the review application, what did you do? I thought if they refuse it, she has to leave the country at the end of the visa time?

What do you mean by the removal letter is not issued and inis will contact you for longer term residency? Does that mean they refused the review but suddenly changed their minds? or you applied for something else? What application is in the queue?

Regards

[arz1986]

When they refused the review application, what did you do? I thought if they refuse it, she has to leave the country at the end of the visa time?

My review application was refuse within a month, I submit the review and get the refusal in one month. Refusal reason: she is not dependent on me. They give me no right of appeal. The case will go to repatriation/removal unit.Then, we apply the case on medical dependency instead of financial dependency in repatriation unit. after one year, the responded removal letter is not issued and inis will contact you for longer term residency in coming week (date 11 September 2018) and GNIB letter or INIS don't make any contact yet.

What do you mean by the removal letter is not issued and inis will contact you for longer term residency?
Deportation letter
Does that mean they refused the review but suddenly changed their minds? or you applied for something else?
i write a letter, along with consultation and GP letter and send to repatriation unit based on medical dependency of my mother.
What application is in the queue?
my solicitor write four letter from 11 september 2018 till now, they response application is in queue.

[Capricorn]

npayne - did you get any outcome of your review in the end or still waiting?

[npayne27]

npayne - did you get any outcome of your review in the end or still waiting?

Hi Capricorn,

She just got another extension for a further 6 months. This will be 3 years living in Ireland now. She has Type 2 Diabetes and painful feet, we pay for all her doctor appointments, which are not many, but 50 euro each, and we pay for stronger pan medication. I just wish I would have kept receipts for these things, but I managed to remember to keep the receipt for the last purchase. I guess I also just assumed they would know I am paying for these things, and though they would be detectives to see I paid for her doctor appointments. The only thing is in Ireland, diabetes medication is free, which is not my fault. She can't walk or stand for long as is really tired. Her legs are also burning most of the time. Do you think the doctor would give us a letter saying she needs our care? I just don't know what to say to the doctor, or what they would say to us. Because she really does need our care, and needs to live with us and we provide for all her financial needs. In fact, we are even sending money to Ghana for my two younger brother-n-laws too who are also defendant on us as well because the father refuses to be in contact with them, they would literally have nothing if we didn't send them money. Things are really hard, and if my mother-in-law's review is refused, she would be going home to nothing, we would have to send even more money to her than what we are spending on her now, and she would be sick and alone. I am just praying that the minister will see how much we have sacrificed and how genuine we are, and be kind to us. When she got her first refusal I just broke down and my health became so bad, no one realizes how stressful this is apart from those who are genuine and go through it. Why is it so hard to keep family together who need each other?

Sorry for the long post...

[Capricorn]

Hi npayne

I am still not clear about your current status.

So you initially applied and it got refused for which you filed a review application, correct?
Did you get a response of that review or that initial review is still ongoing?

If your review application (EU4) was also rejected, what did you do next?

[npayne27]

It is still ongoing. It has been 2 years since I applied for a review.

[joker]

Avoid all the hassle and go home. You will feel better with your family to help you